zenout

He thinks this is news?Who didn't know this already?The real question is why now?Whats the upside?Did he make a deal to come clean and not get nailed for perjury?Did they make a deal and say come clean and we wont come after your money or worse yet prison time?Look for Lance to find god any day now very loudly and all of a sudden be an advocate for banning p.e.d.s.!i There was no upside to admitting it now other then for selfish reasons.Do i smell a comeback after a deal was made that none of us know about?

calamarichris

I've already forgiven him for cheating & lying, but I'm still working on forgiving him for inspiring a whole new generation of bitter, angry partisans who equate cycling with hostility, backstabbing, alliances, cancer, and other underhanded manipulation.
And I'll never forgive his Yellow Bracelet Brigade for the nasty stuff that's been said about The Only American Who Won the Tour.
Who was that journalist who called Lance a cancer on cycling? Hopefully these Lance partisans go away and sully some other New Big Thing, like maybe those road-snowmobiles. (There's a sport that deserves them.)

And hey look, they come in Livestrong colors, so they'll feel right at home!

zenout

great post

Ess curvy

Or if they want real performance enhancing drug grist, try busting on Pro Football ... oops, did I really just speak the unspeakable?? Yeah, that's right, I'm enough of a real athlete to know a 'roider when I see some of those super-super human godzillas chasing the pigskin. It just so happens to be the most popular sport in America, and it's laced w/ drugs, mommy.

It will be interesting to watch the interview and see if Lance comes out and strikes at what I consider to be the heart of the problem in pro cycling, which is the TDF itself, or rather the TDF corporation and mentality that cashes in on the TDF. Just like any televised event, the TDF depends on viewer ratings and that system is totally about supporting a sick performance arc that never flattens or declines. The viewers, and consequently the media investors and the TDF itself, demand ever increasing spectacle; we've now hit a point on that arc where the only way the athletes can predictably dazzle us, and more importantly, COMPLETE the event with the proper TV pizazz is by using performance enhancing drugs. When coupled w/ the GDI and TDE or other major multi-stage events, it's amazing these guys can even pedal by the end of Week 1. Bottom line is the TDF is as much to blame for the abuses as the riders, because they've created an impossible situation that can only be met thru the use of PED's.

What are we to do? Keep the drugs out by inserting many more rest days and extending the Tour, which means a complete redo on the TV schedule. Some production costs would rise, and others would come down, but the TDF would be able to cash in on the advertising bonanza that an additional week of major global sports event generates.

calamarichris

I respectfully disagree.
~First they blamed Lemond for saying anything, saying he was a crybaby, attention wh0r3, (and worse.)
~Then they blamed all of Europe, saying that all the Euros are absolutely all doping too.
~Then they blamed Hamilton, Andreiu, Landis, and each successive (sour grapes) teammate of Lance who got caught and confessed about Armstrong.
~Then they blamed the UCI for not catching Armstrong, and repeated his "never tested positive" mantra.
~Then they went back to blaming everyone else in the peloton, using idiotic phrases like "level playing field" and "drug culture" etc.
~Then they blamed the USADA, for the witch hunt.
~Now they're blaming cycling in general, the Tour de France itself and TV pizazz?!?!

I'll give Yellow Bracelet Brigade that much, it takes a lot of ball to blame everyone in the world except the cheater and perjurer.

teufelhunden222

but lemond is a crybaby

calamarichris

... and still they chant the same old mantra. Even after it turned out that The Only American to Ever Win the Tour de France was proven right about him and Dr. Ferrari.
Some of them are even claiming the Lemond must have doped too, but he's one of the rare riders who campaigned for increased doping controls WHILE HE WAS COMPETING AND WINNING.
One thing's sure: Armstrong will never go broke.

Gallo

What makes this whole thing a mess is not the yellow bracelet brigade.

Where do we stop? I think most that know anything about the sport would agree the PED were used for multiple years by multiple cyclists. Some of these cyclists won championships. Who gets stripped and who doesn't? Who gets exposed who don't. Who decides this? Since a positive drug test is no longer needed everybody is in question. Hell all cycling governing bodies are also in question as well for that matter.

When Lance Armstrong hired Dr Gofasti Ferrari I think everybody knew. At least those who knew anything about the nefarious doctors reputation. Which was tied to PEDs which is unfortunate because his training was revolutionary.

So do we just strip Lance and move on because the Germans, the Italians, the British, the other Americans,the Scandinavians, the Spaniards and every other champion were rather affable and generally nicer than Lance so we will overlook their transgressions.

If anyone believes Lance was the only one doping... well must be smoking dope.

I truly feel sorry for the clean cyclists of this era that will always ask what if everybody was clean, what would my results be?

We owe it to them and the up coming generation to get this crap to stop.

**By the way I am not pointing a finger at Greg LeMond whom by all his actions seems to be one guy who NEVER DOPED and there are others. While some will claim he whined to secure his legacy. The bottom line is the man was hell on wheels, Hell he got shot and got up and won the tour. His defeat of the great late great Fingon was one of the most exciting sports event I ever saw. Hell even French were rooting for LeMond to beat their own countryman in their event. Stuff of legends

rooftest

All true. I think that it's pretty clear Lance is the attention *****. He needs to be on the news so bad that he's taking the financial risk of admitting doping.

calamarichris

I disagree, Gallo.
Please don't deflect criticism of the YBB (they frequently more resembled guerrilla partisans than fans) into pointless semantics about "What do we do now?"
A responsible answer to your question is to take accountability for what we did before (link above) and don't do it anymore.
The pros, the governing bodies, and the media are going to take their measures to fix it, but shouldn't the mob be held accountable too?

GP

Jeez, you guys should have hung out in gyms in the '80s.

Gallo

We agree on more points than we disagree. I want the sport cleaned up, you want the sport cleaned up. I think Lance cheated, You think Lance cheated. I think Lemond is a clean cycling icon, You think Lemond is a clean cycling icon.

Where we disagree on is what might happen or might not happen in the future and I will let that unfold

Ess curvy

Squid Chris,

No offense, but did you catch the article in Bicycling Mag that talked about this very topic? The author took no sides, but he did point out that the way things work w/ the TDF, when a winner gets busted, the yellow jersey gets passed along to the 2nd place finisher and everyone else gets bumped up too. Sounds good and fair and right, except that in all 7 of Lance's victories, both the 2nd and 3rd place finishers (even the top 8 in some of them and those were all that were tested) have all been busted and experienced different strengths of punishment! Yes, the sport has come to a place where they are nearly all dopers, and yer pal Lemond has stated so much himself and attributed that as a partial reason for his retirement -- as much as I appreciate Lemond's place in American cycling, he really did come off as a *****y cry-baby.

I'm not apologizing for Lance (or the other 80% or so of TDF riders who are dopers too), not by a long shot; I am simultaneously impressed with his athleticism, sense of sportsmanship, stunning training and work ethic, and his raw competitiveness, which all have ZERO to do w/ doping, and I'm really pissed at how he has sullied the sport and brought shame to American pro cyclists. And he's a damned incredible rider.

You may not like my word choice in "pizazz," but the fact is that the whole ugly affair cannot be separated from the reality that it is a money making endeavor for all involved parties. Do you think those cool helicopter shots are free? What about those gorgeous Riviera models who hand out flowers and jerseys? Retired cyclists like Bob Roll? Do you really believe that Nike, Adidas, Time, Giro, Garmin, Subaru, T-Mobile, Sidi, and legions of others cough up multimillion dollar sponsorships because they believe in the purity of the athletes? Hell no, it's about the money!! That whole circus is driven by the TV coverage and the TV coverage is driven by schedule, scope, production, and yes, Pizazz, 'cuz it's gotta sell.

Way back in the 70's, I was lucky enough to see Bernard Hinault beat out Fignon for the yellow in Paris, and that was really, really cool. That got me to start watching the TDF on TV and I've seen its evolution over the last 40 years. I can tell you for sure, that back when I 1st started watching, there simply wasn't the same kind of TV coverage or sponsorship that we see now, it just wasn't there. Now, it's just like the Olympics or the World Cup: all 3 are huge (as in the most watched TV productions on the planet) and they seem to be taking on an almost surreal quality due to just how much TV production they involve. The production is rivaling the content, and if that's not about pizazz, then I don't know what is.

So this is where the TDF corporation (it exists to make a profit) really has a blame-worthy role in the whole calculus. If the sponsors are the money behind it all, then the TDF corp is the game maker; it sets up and licenses the whole thing, and the riders are the player pieces that get moved around. The money and the TV production demand greater and greater achievements, so the TDF sets the course and schedule to prompt the riders into providing what's demanded at the corporate level. The problem is that the ubiquity of the doping points to a line having been crossed where, yes, in order to be competitive in the TDF, the riders have little choice but to dope it. The TDF has made the test that is the Tour too hard. I know this because I ride enough and am a good enough rider to know what it takes to do the stuff that those guys pull off, and I know a few pro riders (non-dopers) and it's clear that what the guys at the TDF level are doing is orders of magnitude beyond what these other pros are doing -- it's just not possible without using the dope. The bar has been set too high and that is not Lance's fault, but it surely is the TDF's and I have yet to hear the TDF offer up any honest commentary on that one.

The real question/problem is not whether Lance is a punk-ass doper or not, but rather how can we get this sport that we love so much back into a form that excites and inspires us. Personally, I don't need these guys to turn in such unbelievable, in the true sense of the word, performances; I need them to be just good enough to feed my dreams.

.... Lance-baby, I swear I am going to hang with you today for 30 seconds, even if it kills me....

calamarichris

Good stuff, but you forgot the winky smiley to denote sarcasm.

bikingshearer 

Some great discussion here. Just wanted to share a few of my thoughts.

Thought 1: To me, Lance's worst sin is not the doping, or even the lying about it. Those are bad enough and deserve punishment, but not being cast into the netherworld. Was does deserve being cast into the netherworld is the thuggish bullying he routinely used anyone he perceived as being a threat or even as being no longer useful. What he did to the Andreus and, especially, to Emma O'Reilly is beyond dispicable. And they are only two examples.

Thought 2: Greg Lemond is so often correct, but he always manages to come off sounding like a whiny brat who lost a toy. So many times I have cringed reading quotes of his statements. So many times I have wanted to tell him, and not out of malice, "Greg, shut up; you aren't helping." He just has a talent for striking exactly the wrong tone when he talks of doping and Lance. It is truly unfortunate, because it has and continues to detract from the substance of his message.

Thought 3: The culture of doping in cycling goes back to the 19th Century. The current culture of doping is nothing new, just the means and the sophistication. That does not mean that it should be accepted - just the opposite. But it does mean that the battle will not stop here and now. It has to be continuous and ongoing.

calamarichris

Check out Hincapie's & Leipheimer's faces during Lance's famous "You are not worth the chair you're sitting on." tirade against Kimmage.

zenout

As i watch all this news come the last 48 hours i now realize that he might be mentally ill.When people lie and lose their capacity to know they are lying, that goes to a whole new level.He needs help ,plain and simple.He is a bully like i have never seen before in any sport and im including Mike Tyson at his worst.He is very fortunate that in America the only people that care about cycling might all be in this forum.If this was Europe ,he would do time.How the people whose lives he utterly destroyed have showed this kind of restraint impresses and amazes me.When they get paid by Lance on the settlement you see coming they are not getting charity,they are getting back the money Lance screwed them out of.Will he back?you bet ya....Michael Vick drowned dogs and now the jets want him if you get my point.Thanks for letting me rant all.

Gallo

Agreed.

His thuggish and bulling behavior might be his legacy. Nobody forced him to act like that.

Greg is not a great public speaker but he was right and he was a great champion. Living proof of its not what you say but how you say it.

Hopefully this fiasco leads this generation and those to come to learn from this. At the end of the day ideally it will speak to not if you get caught but when you get caught. If doping is going to eradicated every level from the governing and sanctioning bodies, the race directors the sponsors the coaches and the athletes on the pro and the amateur level are all going to have to be fully committed to a drug free atmosphere.

As far as big George and Levi.....damm not even going there what a friggin mess.

Beachgrad05

i don't understand this? He was a serial cheater...that does not denote sportsmanship nor does the intimidation used on others to keep his cheating secret to protect his image and endorsements.

zenout

People have short term memories when it come to pros cheating....Andy Petite made our world baseball team yesterday representing our nation in baseball..He was nailed for roids....Mark McGuire was just hired by the dodgers as their hitting coach 45 days ago.....Barry bonds lied to a grand jury and is a free man....Roger Clemens is coming back with the astros this year.....How about Ryan Braun the MVP from 2 years ago who served a suspension for 50 games almost won the MVP again...The list goes on and on....Lance will be back i assure you..Can you imagine the TV rating when he gets back?Why is Lance doing all this now out of left field?A deal was made to let him back sooner then 7 years i bet.

calamarichris

One luxury we're afforded in this country is to opt for reality. Or not.
These Lance partisans are giving us some wondrous displays of reason-gymnastics these days.
You'll never go broke catering to the lowest common denominator in America, which is why Armstrong will always be a wealthy man.

Gallo

That cartoon is the best I have seen in a while

awesome

Beachgrad05

What I was referencing was the part about sense of sportsmanship I highlighted in te quote....I do not see any sportsmanship unless you say POOR

Garfield Cat

Serial cheater, you mean he cheated on his wife too?

Beachgrad05

He cheated in every cycling event for years and YES he cheated on his wife with the singer Sheryl Crowe (Sp?) or at minimum he dumped his wife to be with her but my guess is he cheated first...dude has no integrity...duh