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11-speed cassettes >11-32

Old 06-21-15, 09:37 PM
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11-speed cassettes >11-32

We have Campagnolo Athena Triple 11-speed shifting on our tandem. FD, RD, levers. The RD is great, it has a long RD cage.




I changed the freehub from Campagnolo to Shimano, and so before we were limited to 12-29 cassettes, we were able to change to Shimano's 11-32, along with changing the front chainrings from a 28t to a better-shifting 30t granny.

We'd like to get a bit more advanage than the 11-32 cassette.

What's available that's good thats greater than 11-32t? I'm thinking 11-34 or 11-36. We'd like to be able to climb Hicks-Mt. Umunhum.

Interlock makes cassettes in many different sizes. Anyone else?
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Old 06-21-15, 11:30 PM
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Sram makes an 11 speed 11-36 and also Santana had a batch of 11-36 cassettes made in 11 speed to Shimano specs. We are running the Santana cassette with great results on our K-edge modified Di2 Ultegra derailleur. You have to be aware that just because it has a long cage does;t mean it can handle a 36 it is also dependent upon the placement of the upper guide pulley. On the K-edge cage it is down lower and back further . It appears that we can run the new 11-40 XTR cassette with our set up also just need to use a longer chain and use the high tension hole in the derailleur spring. I will be trying that out this week.
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Old 07-21-15, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
Sram makes an 11 speed 11-36 and also Santana had a batch of 11-36 cassettes made in 11 speed to Shimano specs. We are running the Santana cassette with great results on our K-edge modified Di2 Ultegra derailleur. You have to be aware that just because it has a long cage does;t mean it can handle a 36 it is also dependent upon the placement of the upper guide pulley. On the K-edge cage it is down lower and back further . It appears that we can run the new 11-40 XTR cassette with our set up also just need to use a longer chain and use the high tension hole in the derailleur spring. I will be trying that out this week.
Did you get a chance to try this out? If so, what front chainring configuration were you pairing it with?

Many thanks for the report.
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Old 07-22-15, 07:58 AM
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Lots of options for cassettes. You just need to look at the mtb cassettes.

We have had great luck with both Sram and Shimano cassettes and I have also mixed and matched (SRAM shifter/deraileur with Shimano Cassettes). Our road tandem is all SRAM and we have used the ultralight XX 11-36 cassette (it is $$, but functions very well and kinda blingy).

Shimano XT m771 11-36 cassettes can be found for around $50 right now, I just picked up a few of them b/c we use them on the on the mtb tandems.
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Old 07-23-15, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by colotandem View Post
Lots of options for cassettes. You just need to look at the mtb cassettes.

We have had great luck with both Sram and Shimano cassettes and I have also mixed and matched (SRAM shifter/deraileur with Shimano Cassettes). Our road tandem is all SRAM and we have used the ultralight XX 11-36 cassette (it is $$, but functions very well and kinda blingy).

Shimano XT m771 11-36 cassettes can be found for around $50 right now, I just picked up a few of them b/c we use them on the on the mtb tandems.
Lots of 10spd options, but not so much for 11spd w/Shimano cassette shell.
Shimano XT m771 = 10spd.
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Old 07-23-15, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
We have Campagnolo Athena Triple 11-speed shifting on our tandem. FD, RD, levers. The RD is great, it has a long RD cage.




I changed the freehub from Campagnolo to Shimano, and so before we were limited to 12-29 cassettes, we were able to change to Shimano's 11-32, along with changing the front chainrings from a 28t to a better-shifting 30t granny.

We'd like to get a bit more advanage than the 11-32 cassette.

What's available that's good thats greater than 11-32t? I'm thinking 11-34 or 11-36. We'd like to be able to climb Hicks-Mt. Umunhum.

Interlock makes cassettes in many different sizes. Anyone else?

Thanks for the Interlock link.
The 11-32 Campag compatible cassette was just what I needed for an upcoming trip.
Works with 11 speed DI2 perfectly.
CJ
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Old 07-23-15, 09:55 PM
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We ordered a SRAM PG 1170 11-36 Cassette. That ought to be plenty for Hicks, South.


  • Specs
  • Specifications for SRAM PG 1170 11-36 Cassette
  • TECHNOLOGY HIGHLIGHT(S) WiFLi™
  • WEIGHT................. 366g
  • MATERIAL................. Steel cog cluster, with aluminum spider
  • GEAR RATIOS................. 11-36t
  • SPEEDS .................11
  • COLORS................. Zephyr silver anodized finish with laser-etched logos
  • RECOMMENDED CHAIN .................SRAM PC-1170 chain
  • SPROCKETS ON SPIDER................. 3
  • SPROCKET MATERIAL................. Steel/Aluminum
  • RECOMMENDED GROUP................. Force 1
  • COGS 11-12-13-15-17-19-22-25-28-32-36
  • COMPATIBILITY................. Only compatible with Force 1 Medium & Long Cage Rear Derailleur with X-Horizon™
  • RETAIL AVAILABILITY................. March 2015
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Old 07-24-15, 09:08 AM
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And that's going to work with your existing Athena derailleur? 36 is wayyyyyy more than the quoted max for that derailleur (29T).

Cross your fingers!

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/file...ev01_02_15.pdf

Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
We ordered a SRAM PG 1170 11-36 Cassette. That ought to be plenty for Hicks, South.


  • Specs
  • Specifications for SRAM PG 1170 11-36 Cassette
  • TECHNOLOGY HIGHLIGHT(S) WiFLi™
  • WEIGHT................. 366g
  • MATERIAL................. Steel cog cluster, with aluminum spider
  • GEAR RATIOS................. 11-36t
  • SPEEDS .................11
  • COLORS................. Zephyr silver anodized finish with laser-etched logos
  • RECOMMENDED CHAIN .................SRAM PC-1170 chain
  • SPROCKETS ON SPIDER................. 3
  • SPROCKET MATERIAL................. Steel/Aluminum
  • RECOMMENDED GROUP................. Force 1
  • COGS 11-12-13-15-17-19-22-25-28-32-36
  • COMPATIBILITY................. Only compatible with Force 1 Medium & Long Cage Rear Derailleur with X-Horizon™
  • RETAIL AVAILABILITY................. March 2015
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Old 07-24-15, 10:23 AM
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Oops, I completely missed that 11sp part (even in the title)!
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Old 07-24-15, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rahill View Post
And that's going to work with your existing Athena derailleur? 36 is wayyyyyy more than the quoted max for that derailleur (29T).

Cross your fingers!

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/file...ev01_02_15.pdf
I'd have gotten an 11-34t if one were readily available. The 11-36t isn't that expensive, so I figure that I'm early adopting taking another for the team. Its not known how large a cassette a Campy Athena 52-39-30 triple can take. Campy specs 29t, because that's their largest cassette. I already have 11-32 on, and it works fine. The only way to find out it is try it.

It just got put on, and the mechanic says it won't allow crossover. So, I'm going to have to be careful to avoid the largest cogs whilst I'm in the big ring. That means I'll forget, and get locked up. I'll give it a try this weekend, and see how it goes. I'll probably end up getting the IRD 11-34.
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Old 07-24-15, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
I'd have gotten an 11-34t if one were readily available. The 11-36t isn't that expensive, so I figure that I'm early adopting taking another for the team. Its not known how large a cassette a Campy Athena 52-39-30 triple can take. Campy specs 29t, because that's their largest cassette. I already have 11-32 on, and it works fine. The only way to find out it is try it.

It just got put on, and the mechanic says it won't allow crossover. So, I'm going to have to be careful to avoid the largest cogs whilst I'm in the big ring. That means I'll forget, and get locked up. I'll give it a try this weekend, and see how it goes. I'll probably end up getting the IRD 11-34.
Sounds like the current 11-36 setup limit is due to inadequate chain length and not RD upper jockey wheel clearance. Better to add 2 links and not pretzel your RD. Then if the chain slaps the chainstay when in granny and smallest cog or 2 (another crossover that should not be used) this issue should not be catastrophic (be sure to have chain protector/framesaver tape on the chainstay) unless your mechanic thinks this might be susceptible to chain suck due to inadequate tension.

Personally I would add 2 links and never ride using the extreme granny crossover. Additional benefit is better chain wrap around the cassette cogs and less likely to incur chain skipping under high load.

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Old 07-24-15, 06:12 PM
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Ritterview,
What kind of problem were you having with the 28t front granny?
If you go to an 11-34 cassette then you are not gaining any lower gear than what you previously had with a 28t granny and an 11-32 cassette.
Another option to your shifting problem is keep the 28t and change the largest chain ring to a 50.
At 90rpm your speed would be 32mph versus 33mph for a 52t ring.
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Old 07-24-15, 10:38 PM
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It works! An extra link was installed, and so even if I cross-chain in 52t chainring and 36t cog, it doesn't lock up. Here's video clip.



The Campy Athena FD is designed for the Athena 52-39-30 crankset. My philosophy and experience is to not stress the FD. Give it exactly what its expecting, so it doesn't even know its on a tandem. It shifts fine. At times it'll overshift on the front, and its hard to get it to go from the large to the middle without going to the inner, but other than that, its great. Athena 3x11 was introduced in 2012, so its pretty up date. Mike Moore at the Northwest Tandem Rally was stating that its hard to keep triples going, for lack of components, but, hey, Campagnolo still has it going. With the 11-speed making the cassettes interchangable with Shimano there's plenty of options, as can be seen in our example.
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Old 07-25-15, 08:14 AM
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That rear derailleur cage is stretched to the max, you can just hear in your video how smooth it isn't I'd say it's a blow up waiting to happen!
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Old 07-25-15, 10:01 AM
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Being a weak team who only get to train on the flatland of SE Texas, we do have to compensate for our deficiency when we travel with ride specific gearing. One of the ride we have planned for the upcoming trip is Breck to Vail and back. I have already changed out my 11-29 cassette for a 11-32 and was considering changing the 30/48 front to a 28/46. Just wondering what potential problem I might encounter with the 28t granny. It seems to me that reducing the size of the chain rings would be less taxing on the front derailleur than increasing the cassette size on the rear derailleur.

We will be a solo tandem team so speed is not an important issue. Any down hill segment will be used for recovery rather than pushing speed so I don't think we will miss the higher gears.
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Old 07-25-15, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
It works! An extra link was installed, and so even if I cross-chain in 52t chainring and 36t cog, it doesn't lock up. Here's video clip.



The Campy Athena FD is designed for the Athena 52-39-30 crankset. My philosophy and experience is to not stress the FD. Give it exactly what its expecting, so it doesn't even know its on a tandem. It shifts fine. At times it'll overshift on the front, and its hard to get it to go from the large to the middle without going to the inner, but other than that, its great. Athena 3x11 was introduced in 2012, so its pretty up date. Mike Moore at the Northwest Tandem Rally was stating that its hard to keep triples going, for lack of components, but, hey, Campagnolo still has it going. With the 11-speed making the cassettes interchangable with Shimano there's plenty of options, as can be seen in our example.
those are some big gaps between gears with the 11-36! Even with the 11-32 that we are running, some of the gaps are bigger than i like. What happened to your philosophy of sticking with tighter range cassettes to avoid big jumps between gears?
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Old 07-25-15, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bradcycles View Post
those are some big gaps between gears with the 11-36! Even with the 11-32 that we are running, some of the gaps are bigger than i like. What happened to your philosophy of sticking with tighter range cassettes to avoid big jumps between gears?
No bridges burned, we can revert to 11-32 or even 12-29 if we ever need to. Hicks Rd, North and South is the impetus. I'm tired of turning around at the base. We also have a possible opportunity to climb Mt. Umunhum Rd to the Tower, and I want to see if we can do it.

P'shaw, you don't need gearing, one might say. Well, only 3 tandems are listed for Hicks, North. So, there must be some avoidance going on.
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Old 07-25-15, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad1 View Post
That rear derailleur cage is stretched to the max, you can just hear in your video how smooth it isn't I'd say it's a blow up waiting to happen!
Hopefully, I'll avoid this cross-chaining. With the pre-Athena triple standard Campy RD, it'd lock up real good. I'd have to remove the wheel to get it off. This maybe isn't ideal, but I don't think its precarious. Somebody's got to find out if an 11-36 cassette will work with a Campagnola Athena Triple, and once again the early adopter burden falls on me.
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Old 07-25-15, 11:32 PM
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Hopefully you don't cross chain to the max, it's no fun to see the consequences of abuses when you rip off the rear derailleur into the wheelset.
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Old 07-26-15, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ritterview View Post
Hopefully, I'll avoid this cross-chaining. With the pre-Athena triple standard Campy RD, it'd lock up real good. I'd have to remove the wheel to get it off. This maybe isn't ideal, but I don't think its precarious. Somebody's got to find out if an 11-36 cassette will work with a Campagnola Athena Triple, and once again the early adopter burden falls on me.
Good to hear the RD is handling the big-big combo without immediate pretzel effect. Workbench proof at least. No doubt you have enough sense to avoid actually riding with the higher crosschain angles a triple crank spacing develops. Even with double chainring setup (a much lower chain angle), riding big-big on the tandem for more than a few seconds makes me cringe.
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Old 07-26-15, 11:22 PM
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Well, we gave it a try on South Hicks today, and found that the extra link put in the chain to avoid crossover lock-up also made it too loose. While on the steeper sections of South Hicks (eg 16%) the torque caused the chain to skip on the cog, which is unnerving. Video clip here.



It was nice having the 36t. We'd be at 15% grade and maintaining a fairly normal cadence. Such steep stuff is intimidating, and thus often avoided. Its enough to deal with the gravity, without also having to use a mashing instead of a more usual spinning. Mashing gives a sense of desperation, and apprehension that if there's any more demand you'll not be able to keep it up and then...slide backwards? That's the feeling at least. Having generous gearing kept a greater sense of normalcy. Until it started skipping.

The next move is to remove a link, and see it that's sufficiently taut, and how badly it locks up if I foolishly crossover.
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Old 07-27-15, 12:03 AM
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I'm not a fan of using pure RD tension to keep the chain from skipping on a big cog. The issue is really due to inadequate chain wrap from having the RD cranked back so far in order to keep the top jockey wheel from hitting the biggest cog. This can be seen in the video clip where the chain wrap ends in almost a vertical plane.

Another option I would suggest is to find a smaller top jockey wheel (ie: -1 tooth in size). This is a solution that I have used in our previous Shimano 10spd setup with a 11-34 M771 cassette. A smaller top jockey wheel allows the RD to be set a little more normally under the cassette (less "B-screw" in Shimano terms) instead of cranked back so far as to cause the chain to skip.

Here's one other idea... does the Athena triple have the same throw ratio as the Shimano XTR/M9000 RD or the one from SRAM? If so, maybe swap out the RD. The M9000 RD can handle up to a 40T cog and the SRAM up to 42t.

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Old 07-27-15, 12:28 AM
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Insufficient tension on the chain is unlikely to be the reason that the chain is skipping, otherwise it'd be diabolical on the smaller cogs. Besides I'm running up to a 11-34 cassette with an 30-42-55 triple on an unmodified Ultegra RD derailler. Which is way over spec for both largest cog size and chain wrap. Similar to you I set it up so that the big-big combination is possible. The chain will foul the top jockey wheel on the smallest three cogs, but that would be noisy rather than catastrophic and they are not combinations that we would use anyway.

I'm tipping that the skipping is a different problem. Top of the hit list would be to rule out chain-cassette wear issues, stiff links, B screw adjustments, or even a simple limit screw adjustment. Particularly so if it is skipping once every 3 and a bit revs.

Cheers,

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Old 07-27-15, 11:22 AM
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SRAM cassettes are known for being a little noisy. Did you find that to be the case? Shimano cassettes are supposed to be a bit quieter.
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Old 07-27-15, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
I'm not a fan of using pure RD tension to keep the chain from skipping on a big cog. The issue is really due to inadequate chain wrap from having the RD cranked back so far in order to keep the top jockey wheel from hitting the biggest cog. This can be seen in the video clip where the chain wrap ends in almost a vertical plane.

Another option I would suggest is to find a smaller top jockey wheel (ie: -1 tooth in size). This is a solution that I have used in our previous Shimano 10spd setup with a 11-34 M771 cassette. A smaller top jockey wheel allows the RD to be set a little more normally under the cassette (less "B-screw" in Shimano terms) instead of cranked back so far as to cause the chain to skip.

Here's one other idea... does the Athena triple have the same throw ratio as the Shimano XTR/M9000 RD or the one from SRAM? If so, maybe swap out the RD. The M9000 RD can handle up to a 40T cog and the SRAM up to 42t.
Have no idea whether this is possible, or how it would work, but can you put the K Edge cage, used in the Di2 retrofits?

It moves the Jockey wheel back to work with larger cogs.
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