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Gravel tandem project

Old 12-01-15, 01:35 PM
  #26  
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Our studio pictures came in.
The metallic brown shows well how different lighting makes it different colors.
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Old 12-01-15, 01:40 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
Last year after a few Camelback bottle ejections from our tandem, we removed all the Arundel Sidewinder cages and replaced with death grip Mandibles. A little tougher to extract a bottle, but nice to not worry about losing one or worse (cause a mishap).
Good point. We'll have an X-Lab Gorilla cage (CAGES AND BOTTLES) we chose their "38g" version so Kami is able to extract the bottle. Her's is to be mounted above the stokes bars and upside down like a triathlete bottle on the back of my seat. I'll have one for me for liquid fuel still deciding on a cage, maybe the full 14# grip cage from Xlab Gorilla. The bulk of our water will be in bladders in frame bags (that are starting fabrication) with a camelback-type leader we drink from while riding.
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Old 12-01-15, 02:17 PM
  #28  
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Has anyone ever thought of coating inside of the frame tubes so they could be used to hold water? Or an internal bladder system.

Reading your post after getting off the phone with my Curaflo rep.
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Old 12-01-15, 05:47 PM
  #29  
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Andy - Hit me up if you want to borrow some Nitto mustache bars for your build, or some of the slightly wider cheapo Nashbar steel mustache bars.
I'm in Boulder County as well.

I like Mustache bars on my gravel/touring bikes. Heck, I like m'bars on all my bikes these days. So many more comfortable hand positions and much much more secure handling of the bike on gravel. Probably not as much a big deal on smaller bikes, but our bikes are always franken'bilt up from 63cm bikes to something we can ride. Big bikes are inherently unstable and have death wobble issues.
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Old 02-09-16, 05:54 PM
  #30  
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Where's the pics with the frame bags?
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Old 02-10-16, 02:17 AM
  #31  
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Hey Andy, I noticed in post #1 you mentioned
with the sychro-shifting and a bit of adjusting the program to shift out of the large ring early, you are prevented from severe cross chaining.
. But I seem to recall the experts (Zinn, etc) all said the synchro would only work with a full XTR setup (mtn derailleurs and shifters).

Are you able to use the XTR synchro (automatic) shifting in conjunction with the Ultegra 6770 shifters?
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Old 02-22-16, 05:48 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by colotandem View Post
Where's the pics with the frame bags?
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Old 02-22-16, 05:52 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
There is so much awesome going on here (I think I stole that quote in another context from Joe, your frame bag maker)! So well thought out in every single detail. You will certainly have many happy miles on this machine!
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Old 02-23-16, 12:39 AM
  #34  
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I grabbed that photo from Andy's (TurboTandem) FB page. Bags are apparently from J.Paks LLC (also on FB as "J.Paks LLC adventure cycling frame bags").
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Old 02-23-16, 12:33 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
I grabbed that photo from Andy's (TurboTandem) FB page. Bags are apparently from J.Paks LLC (also on FB as "J.Paks LLC adventure cycling frame bags").
Yeah, I had seen the photos on FB and know Jpak-Joe very well (he is one of the best custom bag makers around!). I just thought Andy owed it to the others following the thread to give them a photo update!!!

Thanks for posting! And glad to hear that you are able to finally get out on your new bike!!
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Old 03-19-16, 06:58 PM
  #36  
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Indeed the synchro shifting works! It was well confirmed before the build that the Ultegra 6770 drop shifters would work with the XTR derailleurs, but there was some uncertainty as to whether the bar display and syncro shifting would work. It turns out to work great. I've made two shifting maps, one for climbing and one with a tighter map for the flats. Each has different shift points on the way up and the way down. As you transition to the top of a set, the bartop display beeps to let me know the next shift will involve a front (and rear) shift. When it changes rings, I have it set to move the rear one or two steps along with the front change such that the transition maintains a cadence. One great thing about it, is that I have wide out-of-spec chainrings, and the syncro allows me to not worry about cross chaining into a gear that will exceed the chain length large-to-large, or exceed the chain wrap small-to-small. I also love the gear display for the couple second after each shift. No more looking back to see what gear I am in.

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Old 03-19-16, 07:18 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
I grabbed that photo from Andy's (TurboTandem) FB page. Bags are apparently from J.Paks LLC (also on FB as "J.Paks LLC adventure cycling frame bags").
Twocycle, thanks for helping me keep updated! I've been busy riding and working. The bags turned out nice from JPak. We have one more rear bag on the way to make the set. We found ourselves coming up a little light on space on our first overnight. Below is a picture of the bike all loaded, with a temporary rear bag. And a picture of a "mid-distance" set up at a bike show for Jpak. Jpak had temporaily raised the stoker seat and put on one of his rear bags. for the show. Our idea is for most single day 100-200 mile gravel races we want to carry the water in frame bags not on our backss which would add weight to our butts! So the modest under frame bags, and my the top tube bag in front would be used. For multi day events the lower black frame bag can be added, along with a rather sizeable stoker top tube bag, and what will be a pretty big rear seat bag sized to fit between my stokers low seat (She's 5'3) and the big tire. For the bags we worked with Joe on the color scheme to match the "coyote" theme. We also had coyote gravel patches made, something of a must it seems in gravel circles. Another component new to the bike since the last posting is the GT Jammer carbon aero bars (out of production). I sought these out used because they have a nice short length and rather dramatic double bend appropriate for a bike where the seat has not been moved up in to time trial mode, and wider for holding the bike stable on gravel, while offering me relief on my hand and weight on my butt. I had these custom modified by Zephyr Velo with three carbon cross bars for accessory mounts which also stabilize the bars since I strap a sleeping bag for two under the bars. The aero bars are mounted to a J-tek stem face plate mounted design that carries the arm rest and the bars without clamping to the carbon bars; the lightest option I know but unfortunately out of production (I got ours from our builder who called Jtek an prevailed on them to ship the last one in the shop). Wish that design was still available, it's a nice idea. We have one of them we move back and forth between this bike and the TT road bike.
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Old 03-19-16, 07:23 PM
  #38  
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Oh, another custom component in the works is that I was able to get Blacksheep to agree to design a custom Ti fork with wider clearance than the Whiskey Cross, a 410AC and 70mm offset which will help reduce flop when the bike is front loaded. And reduce toe cross when using big tire and expecting to weave a bit on tight terrain. I'll have him include bottle cage and "everything" cage mounts on the fork so I don't need to pipe clamp bottle cages to the fork legs like I did in the overnight picture above. I'll post picture when it comes in. I am debating leaving it bare Ti, or painting it black as the color scheme rather insist.
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Old 03-19-16, 07:33 PM
  #39  
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As far as the bottle mount vs bags, I am carrying hydration bladders (170oz total), in the top two frame bags. And then I made a little bar on the down tube bottle mount to lower the down toward the BB. That bottle is for liquid fuel (Ensure) which I use heavy on race days. Our last DK200 I went thru 12 to 16, about 1 per hour. Then I have one more bottle on the fork generally empty, but convenient to fill at a hose bib, and stoked for long unsupported sections. I'll not go into the bladder connection configuration, water filtering and other bike packing details here. If Ultra-distance gravel events were only about the equipment, this kind of planning would be the easy part. It's the other 90% mental/physical/intangibles that make the event hard!
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Old 03-19-16, 07:43 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Turbotandem View Post
For multi day events the lower black frame bag can be added, along with a rather sizeable stoker top tube bag, and what will be a pretty big rear seat bag sized to fit between my stokers low seat (She's 5'3) and the big tire. ...
The unladen bike weight is coming in at 30# meaning without the bags but everything else shown. The new fork will add some weight and we'll have a larger front tire. So maybe 31# at that point. The gear including bags, camping, tools, parts, clothing, everything but food and water comes in at another 20#. And then add some 15# for food and water. Lands us between 65# and 70#. That seems really heavy to me, but is only achieved after pursuing every single item in the build and in the gear "best-in-class" light-weight, with some exceptions on the bike build for durability/extra strength. I'm considering swapping the chain to a belt, at least for some events, but that only saves 130g and squeaks in the dust a lot more...

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Old 03-20-16, 08:02 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Turbotandem View Post
The unladen bike weight is coming in at 30# meaning without the bags but everything else shown. The new fork will add some weight and we'll have a larger front tire. So maybe 31# at that point. The gear including bags, camping, tools, parts, clothing, everything but food and water comes in at another 20#. And then add some 15# for food and water. Lands us between 65# and 70#. That seems really heavy to me, but is only achieved after pursuing every single item in the build and in the gear "best-in-class" light-weight, with some exceptions on the bike build for durability/extra strength. I'm considering swapping the chain to a belt, at least for some events, but that only saves 130g and squeaks in the dust a lot more...
Looking good Andy! I am quite impressed with your set up - bike and bags look awesome! I am only a little bit jealous though... I am intrigued with the idea, but my stoker's idea of bike touring entails something more like a Holiday Inn Express.

I hope that we can get out and ride with you guys on part of your Colorado journey - but keeping up with you guys, with us on our mtb tandem might be a bit of an issue!!
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Old 03-20-16, 07:18 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Turbotandem View Post
Indeed the synchro shifting works! It was well confirmed before the build that the Ultegra 6770 drop shifters would work with the XTR derailleurs, but there was some uncertainty as to whether the bar display and syncro shifting would work. It turns out to work great. I've made two shifting maps for climbing and for the flats. Each has differnt shift points on the way up and the way down. As you transition to the top of a set, the bartop display beeps to let me know the next shift will involve chaining a chain ring. When it changes rings, I have it set to move the rear one or two steps along with the front change such that the transition is near cadence. One great thing about it, is that I have wide chainrings, and the syncro allows me to not worry about cross chaining into a gear that will exceed the china length, or exceed the chain wrap. I also love the gear display for the couple second after each shift. No more loking back to see what gear I am in.
OMG. You need to email Zinn or go post that in Velonews. Lost count of how many write ups say road shifters + mtn derailleurs won't do the synchro shifting mode.

I'm using the xtr display only for gear indicator and a nicer battery level display as our setup is otherwise all the Ultegra Di2 11spd stuff (ie: no hope of synchro unless I fork out another bunch of cash for xtr derailleurs).
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Old 03-20-16, 10:22 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
OMG. You need to email Zinn or go post that in Velonews. Lost count of how many write ups say road shifters + mtn derailleurs won't do the synchro shifting mode.
My LBS serves the pro's here in Boulder with a direct line to Shimano, and they were confident, at the least it would work by simply disconnecting the left shift lever, front derailleur switch. Why would the syncro shift not work, the shift levers are just signal switches, whether road or mtn bike. My latest reading before the build, about 6 month ago, from Zinn and others published the same conclusions after they acknowledged a few corrections. It was, at the time, untested but I went on that advice with a couple back ups in reserve, and it turns out it works as planned.

The only thing I wish I had was a button to temporarily make the display illuminate after it has turned off for a while when riding. It lights up for 5 seconds only after shifting, then goes dark to preserve the battery. After a period of time I forget if my next shift will be a chainring. Maybe an operator error, there may very well be a button to turn the display on for a sec without inducing a shift.

I'm not one to spend the time to seek out or post in other appropriate forums. If you know the forums feel free to quote my work. Or feel free to send people to this forum to ask me more questions.
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Old 03-21-16, 12:27 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Turbotandem View Post
Why would the syncro shift not work, the shift levers are just signal switches, whether road or mtn bike.
FWIW, I believe the reasoning was that the E-Tube components, each of which have their own firmware, had some sanity check which would prevent synchro mode if the shifters were not of the mtn variety.

The only thing I wish I had was a button to temporarily make the display illuminate after it has turned off for a while when riding. It lights up for 5 seconds only after shifting, then goes dark to preserve the battery. After a period of time I forget if my next shift will be a chainring. Maybe an operator error, there may very well be a button to turn the display on for a sec without inducing a shift.
There is a button easily accessible just below the display screen on the rearward edge that is facing you. Just click it quickly to wake up the display and it won't go into a setup mode. I use that button all the time to refresh my brain

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Old 03-21-16, 07:10 AM
  #45  
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Healthy skepticism. I will say I have been diligent to NOT upgrade whatever firmware version I currently have for fear that doing so will irrevocably break what is currently working.
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Old 03-21-16, 07:45 PM
  #46  
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TT


Would be great to know how much this sort of thing would cost. Even in vague terms.


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Old 03-22-16, 09:24 AM
  #47  
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So this is likely a real stupid question but does Paketa use only magnesium in their frames?
Congratulations What a ride!!
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Old 03-22-16, 11:11 AM
  #48  
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Yes. Everything but the riv-nuts for water bottles and cable guides. The rear dropout plates might be aluminum (they're unpainted, maybe anodized). But every tube and joint of the frame's superstructure is Mg. If you get a coupled frame, then of course there are the steel couplers.
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Old 03-22-16, 12:46 PM
  #49  
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This might be a "duh" kind of question but are you able to block out certain chainring combos on ultegra di2? you mentioned not being able to cross chain and that would be optimal for me to be able to program into my system. I haven't had a chance to play with e-tube software to know if I can do that.

using r785 levers, XTR display, ultegra F/R derailleurs in my build.
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Old 03-22-16, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
This might be a "duh" kind of question but are you able to block out certain chainring combos on ultegra di2? you mentioned not being able to cross chain and that would be optimal for me to be able to program into my system. I haven't had a chance to play with e-tube software to know if I can do that.
using r785 levers, XTR display, ultegra F/R derailleurs in my build.
Well, I don't know about the capabilities to run Synchro shifting on your set up. On mine, Ultegra 6770 shifters and all XTR for the balance, synchro shifting functions and as such allows me thru the e-tube software to determine front derailleur shift-up and shift-down points such that cross chaining is "blocked" out. I did notice that even without the synchro running, that the rear derailleur refuse to shift in to some combinations. Like in the smallest ring, it won't let me go past 5th, I think. When not in synchro mode it just won't respond to the demand to shift. I don't know if that's programmed in, or if that's the RD detecting a lack of tension in the chain. I don't recall if it refuses to shift in to arge cogs when in the largest chainring.
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