OK, so you never find the need to use a sus post on any tandem. What does that contribute to the observations of ride quality differences? Nothing much other than perhaps a stoker who can tolerate being misled in the butt all day long. 😚

Just a data point. I have posted numerous times over the years that my stoker has never used a suspension seatpost on our Santanas. She did use one on our first tandem, a Comotion, then she realized she never needed it and we dropped it on the Comotion and never started it when we switched to Santana. She continues to not to use one on our Bob Brown tandem.

Warning Opinion below!
I think a tandem ride smooth or rough is not effected by the builder as much as the frame material and most importantly the wheels and tires which notably are easily transferred between bike brands. Roads quality also has an effect on all brands without discrimination.

As I recall, his issue was that the original build did not call for a Bushnell compatible front BB shell. When he wanted to use a Bushnell, he had a modification done to make it work. At least as far back as '08, Calfee has standardized the BB to allow use of that eccentric.

For tubes, I have heard they are using ENVE, but never confirmed it.

One other thing they did change a few years ago was to make the rear left chainstay/BB junction point more compatible with belt drive clearance requirements.

In 2013 came the option for a tapered steer tube fork (44mm head tube). We were their first build with that, plus a ENVE tapered fork.

In 2015, for people intending to use hydraulic rear disc on road tandems, Calfee added a strut tube between the seatstay and chainstay on the disc side only. Calfee has been adding this strut to mtn tandems for years. Also in 2015 came the option for thru axle dropouts.

In addition to twocicle's list our 2008 frame had Ti couplers and our 2015 frame has Alu couplers with the biggest advantage of the Aluminum is cost. Nice thing about a Calfee frame is the ability to have the frame modified with advances in components. Our first frame went back twice for upgrades at a much lower cost then a new frame.

Can you tell me the cost and weight difference between SS and aluminum? I was back and forth about a coupled frame, as well as buying new vs trying to find something used.
I am leaning toward just starting from scratch, and would probably regret not getting a coupled frame down the road(no pun intended).

Not much...and I would ask you the same question for in an earlier post you said "An interesting observation is that I have never seen or heard of any stokers foregoing suspension posts on any Santana model. Why is that?" I was merely adding another data point of others stoking a Santana sans suspension post.

I believe once you are riding a $3,000 (new) or higher priced tandem the fact that a stoker uses or doesn't use a suspension seatpost has more to do with the experience and communication of the team more so than "ride quality of the bike itself. By the time a team steps up to a Santana Beyond or a Calfee Dragonfly they could probably ride a steel or an aluminum tandem sans suspension post. Conversely a newbie team on a Calfee or Beyond might need a suspension post for the stoker.
Just my humble opinion.
Tailwinds,
Charlie

For us it has more to do with the fact that the stoker cannot see / anticipate upcoming bumps. potholes or rough road surface and I can't call it out 100% of the time.
Stokers vary in their tolerance of this, mine is not tolerant. We rode our Calfee for 4 years without a suspension post and the smoother ride helped, but ultimately installed a Body Float post. Now neither of us worry about bumps, I only call out big ones and we pedal through stuff we used to coast through. My wife used to complain after a ride about her butt / crotch hurting and now that is no longer an issue. We have over 30 years riding tandems so experience isn't necessarily a factor.

I don't know the cost difference between the SS and Alu couplers but the alu wins on both counts. I actually doubt that Calfee builds very many if any SS coupled bikes. When we did our 2008 frame they told be they had never built a SS version even though the Ti couplers were about $1500 more. Now that is a none issue with the Aluminum version couplers. Not really any issues having a coupled tandem other then the slight weight and cost penalty. It makes travel very easy.

I spoke to Michael at Calfee today about this, I was mistaken about the previous couplers, they were as you stated Ti.
He also presented the option of breaking the bike into halves vs. 1/3rds, the travel case looks like a monster, so don't think I would go that route.

My point was simply that we immediately found a ride quality that did not require us to use a sus post on any of the Calfee carbon tandem frames we have ridden. We had plenty of tandem experience and ride miles before switching over, so that feedback was a comparison based on our experience.

Prodding you to provide some kind of ride comparison feedback. Do you not notice a substantial ride difference between your various tandems?

We have had both coupled and non-coupled Calfee tandems, and traveled to Europe with both types (also prior tandems were Santana non-coupled and then coupled). The couplers are simply a convenience factor... and they do add nearly 3lbs and cost is a consideration too.

The non-coupled is most problematic for ground transportation, especially in Europe (won't go in small taxis or go-fast trains) resulting in the need to rent a car to self transport), but flying wasn't a big deal (as long as you avoid small planes). With couplers (S&S cases) we can take virtually any train and mid-sized taxi, which for traveling in Europe is a huge thing for convenience and stress level. Our cost of actual flights on UAL/Air Canada/Lufthansa/etc was equal, so we don't save based on 1 big case vs 2 small cases.

Theoretically, adding couplers should stiffen those sections of tubes (replacing tube lengths with solid couplers), but it's a mute point. Unless you ask for an extra long tandem frame, stiffer tubes are usually not needed (Calfee does have that option if desired).

You bring up a valid point with one large vs two luggage sized bags for ground transportation.

By the time you pack everything into a single tandem case, that can be very heavy to manage. We used a standard BikePro tandem case which all told added up to around 76lbs if I recall correctly. UAL bike transport did up to 100lbs at the typical $200/ea way (international) bike rate, at least a few years back. With S&S cases it is easy enough to pack them and still stay under 50lbs each. With these cases, for us it doesn't matter if we pay $100/ea extra bag or the $200/bike fee, the total travel cost is the same. Other airlines differ as does class of travel (some ppl might have 2 bags free international). We have thought of trying to squeezed down to 3 checked bags total, but usually pack too much gear to succeed.

Yes, we noticed a definite improvement in ride quality/comfort as well. The other thing was how much lighter it is compared to ours previous tandems (steel Santanas). My wife grabbed her saddle and picked up the rear end and commented on how light it was. Our Beyond also accelerates better and feels a bit stiffer laterally (through the bottom bracket). We haven't done any climbing yet (we live in South Louisiana) so can't say definitely but I'm sure with the weight difference & being laterally stiffer it will climb better...which is a good thing 'cause climbers we are not! The Beyond seems to be a tad quicker handling than our Arrivas we've owned, not much quicker but just a little. Maybe the carbon fork has a different offset/rake than Santana's steel forks. The difference is so minor, to me, I only noticed it on the first and second ride. It could also be I have 28 mm tires on the Beyond and we have 32's on the Arriva. Bottom line is we enjoy it more than our Arriva, which we enjoyed.
Regarding travel with a coupled tandem: We have used two S&S Backpack cases and will be using one backpack & one hard case next trip. For us, the coupled tandem saves us money. Going to Europe we check the two cases under the 1 bag per person allowance and bring 2 (maximun size allowable) carry-ons. W have done carry-on only with our travels (not counting the bike) since our first trip to Europe in 2006. My wife loves to complain to her girlfriends that I made her go to Europe for two weeks and she only gets a carry-on!...but after the first trip she now enjoys traveling light. We have all of our riding clothes in the S&S cases as extra padding. The carry-ons have helmets, extra gear, and off-the-bike clothes for the beginning and end of our trip. I have flown to Europe twice with an uncoupled tandem and I concur about the comments regarding ground transportation with a uncoupled versus coupled tandem.

Tailwinds,
Charlie

We also do carry on only. We have used panniers for carry-on and done tours that way, either leaving cases or boxes at start/finish hotel, or one time ditching the cardboard boxes. Air France shipped bikes at no extra charge (counted as checked bag) when we went, and even provided nice large boxes for the return, for $10, when we went. that was for single bikes though.

Thanks for all the input, and also for the personal messages, don't think I'm rude for not responding, apparently I have an insufficient # of posts and am not able to yet.

Good luck on your search for that perfect machine. Keep us posted. :thumb:

Next weekend's forecast is looking pretty nice for tandem demo's here in the south so we plan to visit Jack at Tandems Limited.
We will have the opportunity to ride both a Tetra and Supremo back to back, so it should be a great Valentine's day.

Sounds fun! I love Jack & Susan. They're pretty excited about the new bike we just made for them so perhaps they'll join you for a ride. Say hi from Leland. Oh, and if you could type up a little comparison I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear your thoughts.

[MENTION=429446]Tandem2[/MENTION] If you're from that area, consider bringing your new tandem, if it gets here in time, to the Alabama Tandem Weekend in Huntsville, AL, on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, April 21-24, 2016. We intend to be there.

We are down in Tampa, bringing the MTB with us to check out Oak Mtns trail system, should be a great weekend.
I will certainly do a follow up post on our thoughts after our test rides.

There is a Large Dragonfly listed on eBay, spec on it is pretty dreamy.

Wow, if it fits that could be an unbelievable deal, even the $12K buy it now isn't that unreasonable, but I would offer him something like $10K.
Hard to believe somebody would buy a bike like this, not ride it and sell it.

It's a little large for us, but that doesn't prevent a little bike lust.

Maybe if you could get it cheap, send to Calfee and they can shrink it for you.