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Old 10-13-17, 09:57 AM
  #26  
Mr IGH
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I'd just order a new set of Avid heavy-duty rotors off ebay and be done with it.
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Old 10-13-17, 03:09 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Yamato72 View Post
Avid BB7. They stop well enough but squeak a lot. This is only my second bike with discs, my other bike is my mtb and they squeak too. I've only recently been reading up on how to quiet them down.
The most common reason for disk brake squeal is contamination. The brake pads will squeal if they're contaminated with oil or grease. The can't be cleaned and must be replaced.

Sintered or semi-metalic pads tend to be noisy before they're broken-in. The organic pads are quiet but wear out more quickly. We prefer the organic pads because they're durable enough for us.

However, the basic problem is that the Avid BB7 is an old obsolete design. It uses a single moving brake pad to press the rotor against a fixed pad. If the moving pad is too far from the rotor, braking is weak. If the moving pad is too close to the rotor, it will rub and heat up the rotor. It's hard to find the sweet spot and keep it there as the pads wear down. This is why the Avid BB7 is rarely found on good quality cross or road bikes. Look around your LBS and see how many new bikes are equipped with the BB7.

Mtn bikes have been using hydraulic disk brakes for over 30 years because they offer 3 important advantages. First, they use 2 pistons (sometime 4) to push 2 brake pads toward the rotor. The pads don't have to bend the rotor. Second, the hydraulic reservoir automatically centers the pads as they wear out. Third, the hydraulic system uses mechanical advantage to multiply braking force. They require less hand pressure (even 1-finger braking), which is less tiring on long descents. The Shimano R785 and Sram HRD are good examples of full hydraulic brakes.

Since you're upgrading components, think about the TRP Hy/Rd. It uses a cable-actuated hydraulic calipers, which are compatible with your shifters and are almost as good as the full-hydraulic R785. Since you're using F&R disc brakes, the Hy/Rd or R785 will allow you to descend faster with more safety margin. Some teams even go down to 180mm rotors.
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Old 10-15-17, 07:38 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mtseymour View Post
The most common reason for disk brake squeal is contamination. The brake pads will squeal if they're contaminated with oil or grease. The can't be cleaned and must be replaced.

Sintered or semi-metalic pads tend to be noisy before they're broken-in. The organic pads are quiet but wear out more quickly. We prefer the organic pads because they're durable enough for us.

However, the basic problem is that the Avid BB7 is an old obsolete design. It uses a single moving brake pad to press the rotor against a fixed pad. If the moving pad is too far from the rotor, braking is weak. If the moving pad is too close to the rotor, it will rub and heat up the rotor. It's hard to find the sweet spot and keep it there as the pads wear down. This is why the Avid BB7 is rarely found on good quality cross or road bikes. Look around your LBS and see how many new bikes are equipped with the BB7.

Mtn bikes have been using hydraulic disk brakes for over 30 years because they offer 3 important advantages. First, they use 2 pistons (sometime 4) to push 2 brake pads toward the rotor. The pads don't have to bend the rotor. Second, the hydraulic reservoir automatically centers the pads as they wear out. Third, the hydraulic system uses mechanical advantage to multiply braking force. They require less hand pressure (even 1-finger braking), which is less tiring on long descents. The Shimano R785 and Sram HRD are good examples of full hydraulic brakes.

Since you're upgrading components, think about the TRP Hy/Rd. It uses a cable-actuated hydraulic calipers, which are compatible with your shifters and are almost as good as the full-hydraulic R785. Since you're using F&R disc brakes, the Hy/Rd or R785 will allow you to descend faster with more safety margin. Some teams even go down to 180mm rotors.
FYI, TRP Spyre also is a 2-piston design. True, they are not self adjusting, so you will have to spend the 2-3 minutes adjusting them for pad wear every few weeks or so. My guess is that if teams are willing to give up some of the additional power of the hydraulic by going down to 180 rotors they are either a) not buying into claims about "safety margin", b) not finding that they need all the additional power, or both. Even so, going to 180 is not such a good idea if you ride mountainous terrain due to the increased heat build up, which can be a problem even with 200mm rotors, hydraulic or not.

Last edited by marciero; 10-16-17 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 10-17-17, 09:42 AM
  #29  
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I'm going to try scuffing the rotors and either scuffing or torching the pads first. I also have a new set of pads if necessary. I should be able to true the rotors and save $100 vs new.... I would be interested in doing hydraulic brakes, I have Shimanos on my MTB. If I go that route though I'll also go to a 2x11 drivetrain and DI2... once I get everything else done on this bike.
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Old 10-17-17, 10:38 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Yamato72 View Post
I'm going to try scuffing the rotors and either scuffing or torching the pads first. I also have a new set of pads if necessary. I should be able to true the rotors and save $100 vs new.... I would be interested in doing hydraulic brakes, I have Shimanos on my MTB. If I go that route though I'll also go to a 2x11 drivetrain and DI2... once I get everything else done on this bike.
If you decide to upgrade to Di2 and hydraulic brakes in the future, TRP has an new brake system Hylex RS. For $130 per wheel, you get brake lever, hydraulic brake caliper, Di2 adapter. This will be combined with your Di2 derailleurs, R600 climbing switches, junction boxes, and battery The TRP Di2 adapter will allow you to install the climbing switches on to the TRP brake lever housing.

The advantage of Hylex is that the lever looks slimmer than the R785. It's slightly less expensive than the R785 shifter and caliper combo.
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Old 10-18-17, 06:56 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mtseymour View Post
If you decide to upgrade to Di2 and hydraulic brakes in the future, TRP has an new brake system Hylex RS. For $130 per wheel, you get brake lever, hydraulic brake caliper, Di2 adapter. This will be combined with your Di2 derailleurs, R600 climbing switches, junction boxes, and battery The TRP Di2 adapter will allow you to install the climbing switches on to the TRP brake lever housing.

The advantage of Hylex is that the lever looks slimmer than the R785. It's slightly less expensive than the R785 shifter and caliper combo.
Yes I've been reading the DI2 tandem threads and understand that the first gen DI2 brifters with hydraulics are on the large side.
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Old 08-02-18, 07:33 PM
  #32  
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1000mi Report

We hit 1K miles this week and I thought Iíd give a report. First off, Iíve mostly fixed the problem with my toes going numb by simply returning my cleats to their original position. A new pair of orange insoles and I hope to be 100% again. Pedals are back in-phase and have been since the first ride of the season. We found it impossible to pedal out of the saddle OOP so we started over and have been doing much better. Added a Thudbuster for the stoker a couple months ago and she loves it. The weight is up to 38lbs now. I recently received a carbon Wound-Up fork from Precision Tandems. Itís not installed yet as I elected to order it with no finish so that I could paint it gloss black to match the frame. I hope to get it primed and painted in the next few weeks. Avid brakes continue to work well now that Iíve gotten them adjusted. Iíve learned from my MTB that scuffing the pads with 240 grit sandpaper quiets the squealing right down. The 3x10 Ultegra is still working well, still shifts much crisper than the 105 on my half-bike. Riding around here, the 30-30 lowest gear is rarely needed; even as low as it is, though, I donít think it will be low enough for the very short 18% grade that we encounter every year on our upcoming bike tour. We had our first blow-out last week, the rear tire felt like it was going flat so we stopped to check, the tire was obviously developing a blister, we tried to make it the 5 miles home but were unpleasantly surprised with an explosive decompression. We replaced the tube and padded the spot with 3 bills and made it home. Upon inspecting the inside of the tire (30mm Schwalbe Spicer), it was beginning to shred. New Gatorskins go on tomorrow. This tandem came with Velocity Atlas wheels and although I donít think theyíre that pretty to look at, theyíre doing a good job holding up our 380# team. Very happy with the bike so far.
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Old 08-07-18, 10:41 AM
  #33  
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Great to hear!

We're 961 miles into our new tandem (our first), and learn something new every ride; it has been a blast learning!

Mark
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Old 09-04-18, 09:08 AM
  #34  
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Another quick report, we just crossed 1500mi and over the weekend completed our yearly 4-day DALMAC tour here in MI (about 350mi). The bike held together well with no mechanicals (and no maintenance done either) over the course of the tour. I did not get the chance to install the new CF fork but I did change out the 30T granny chainring with a 26T. That was well worth the money, as we didn't even have to get out of the saddle for the 14% hill that I was worried about. The Gatorskins inspire confidence, we hit 48mph on a couple descents, and would have pushed harder if the roads had been a bit drier. The disk brakes held up well and I never felt like they were getting cooked. We took it a bit easier than in past years and still had almost exactly a 1mph faster daily average speed than on our fastest past tour. We were one of about a half-dozen tandems on our route (a Santana, a Co-Motion, and several Cannondales). We spoke with other riders on the tour quite a bit and may have convinced another couple to give a tandem a try. As expected, few riders can keep up with us on the flats and descents, and those that can are thankful for the pull. The wife and I had a great time this year and the tandem definitely contributed to a more relaxed time (both on the bike, by working together so closely, and off the bike, by getting into camp earlier and having more time for leisure). I did need to re-tension the Velocity wheels before we started the tour, as our hill training showed that they flexed just a bit too much when out of the saddle and going up hills on our last training rides.

Last edited by Yamato72; 09-04-18 at 09:11 AM. Reason: clarity
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