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Performance Wheelset Decision on New Tandem?

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Performance Wheelset Decision on New Tandem?

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Old 07-12-18, 12:38 PM
  #26  
Alcanbrad
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
Marked after. Not sure if it was police accident investigation or by a cycling club to emphasize the poor conditions to whomever maintains that road.
This brings to mind a conversation I had with a park ranger in the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area about a very steep section of road where there are more pot holes than there is smooth pavement (some of you may know the stretch I am talking about). I asked him if the park service had any intention of patching these canyons and he said no, but then said off the record, in his previous assignment somewhere in New Mexico to get pot holes patched, cyclists would come out and spray paint brightly colored penises all over the pot holes then later call and complain about all the penis graffiti on the road which would result in the pot holes being quickly patched. Seems like an effective approach
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Old 07-12-18, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
Marked after. Not sure if it was police accident investigation or by a cycling club to emphasize the poor conditions to whomever maintains that road.
Was marked (a few days after the accident) by a nice man who lives up near Huntington Lake and was very helpful at the accident scene, including diving the captain down to the valley to the hospital.

We were about a half hour behind the couple that crashed, who are our good friends. Was a pretty frightening scene as they were just loading the stoker into the ambulance when we got there.

If you notice the two holes just above the one they hit, I think what happened was the captain saw the first two holes near the center of the road and moved to the right to avoid them and that led them into the hole that caused the crash which was in the shade and hard to see. Another cyclist had crashed there a couple weeks earlier and I know of one other who hit the hole and ruined a wheel but stayed upright.

The holes were filled in and fixed prior to the Climb to Kaiser ride held last Saturday (but still other hazards on that descent if you are planning on trying it so take it easy). By the way the efforts of Ritterview from this forum were the main reason the holes got fixed after his insistent and numerous contacts to the Forest Service and Congressman's office.

Captain and stoker are doing OK, but it's going to be quite a while before they will be able to ride again.
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Old 07-13-18, 09:08 PM
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Mildly OT wheel alternative, alu, less expensive: Kinlin XC279 rims (23 X 28), 36 CX-Ray spokes, WI CLD hubs, = ~1700g. We've been using these rims and spokes on CK hubs for many years and have nothing but good to say about them. Fast enough, inexpensive for what they are especially if you build them yourself, like I did. Max top speed so far a little over 60 mph. Never a problem with them. Hit many a pothole. 285 lb. team. We run 28mm Conti 4K IIs tires on them @ 95-100 lbs. "We drop like rocks."
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Old 07-14-18, 11:05 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Nick & Chris View Post
Was marked (a few days after the accident) by a nice man who lives up near Huntington Lake and was very helpful at the accident scene, including diving the captain down to the valley to the hospital.

We were about a half hour behind the couple that crashed, who are our good friends. Was a pretty frightening scene as they were just loading the stoker into the ambulance when we got there.

If you notice the two holes just above the one they hit, I think what happened was the captain saw the first two holes near the center of the road and moved to the right to avoid them and that led them into the hole that caused the crash which was in the shade and hard to see. Another cyclist had crashed there a couple weeks earlier and I know of one other who hit the hole and ruined a wheel but stayed upright.

The holes were filled in and fixed prior to the Climb to Kaiser ride held last Saturday (but still other hazards on that descent if you are planning on trying it so take it easy). By the way the efforts of Ritterview from this forum were the main reason the holes got fixed after his insistent and numerous contacts to the Forest Service and Congressman's office.

Captain and stoker are doing OK, but it's going to be quite a while before they will be able to ride again.
Thanks for the update. Yes it is understandable that they maybe dodged the earlier holes and then in the tree shade hit that last one. Wouldn't wish that on anyone cycling.

I know it can be rubbing some salt in the wound, but yikes, those Zipp wheels (low spoke count, low profile carbon) were a catastrophe waiting to happen... and did. Even on a single bike, those wheels need to be treated carefully.
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Old 07-14-18, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
Thanks for the update. Yes it is understandable that they maybe dodged the earlier holes and then in the tree shade hit that last one. Wouldn't wish that on anyone cycling.

I know it can be rubbing some salt in the wound, but yikes, those Zipp wheels (low spoke count, low profile carbon) were a catastrophe waiting to happen... and did. Even on a single bike, those wheels need to be treated carefully.
The only time I ever saw a rider throw his bike was on a group ride when a guy with 404s hit a pothole and destroyed both wheels. Not that big a pothole, either. The ones in the photos are absolutely deadly, being so long.
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Old 07-14-18, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
The only time I ever saw a rider throw his bike was on a group ride when a guy with 404s hit a pothole and destroyed both wheels. Not that big a pothole, either. The ones in the photos are absolutely deadly, being so long.
I've jumped an entire 4x8 sheet of plywood lengthwise on my single during a race event. We practiced hopping our road tandem to clear sidewalk/curbs and now it is no big deal. At 49mph, distance covered for a good hop would easily clear the full length of these potholes, but it does require a readiness and enough lead time (ie: holes not hidden in shade) to setup.
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Old 07-14-18, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Mildly OT wheel alternative, alu, less expensive: Kinlin XC279 rims (23 X 28), 36 CX-Ray spokes, WI CLD hubs, = ~1700g. We've been using these rims and spokes on CK hubs for many years and have nothing but good to say about them. Fast enough, inexpensive for what they are especially if you build them yourself, like I did. Max top speed so far a little over 60 mph. Never a problem with them. Hit many a pothole. 285 lb. team. We run 28mm Conti 4K IIs tires on them @ 95-100 lbs. "We drop like rocks."
these AL rims have been great on our tandem too (our alternate set to deep rim carbons).

FWIW, when we moved to a thru-axle setup, I had another front wheel built up with a disk hub and was left with one extra, new rim and the rim-brake front wheel. Available:
- 1 near new front wheel (32 hole BHS/Kinlin XC279, DT Swiss Aerolight spokes, White Industries MI5/non-disk QR 100mm hub)
- 1 new, unused 32 hole BHS/Kinlin XC279 rim. This could be used to build up a new rear wheel.

PM me if interested.
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Old 07-16-18, 09:12 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
I've jumped an entire 4x8 sheet of plywood lengthwise on my single during a race event. We practiced hopping our road tandem to clear sidewalk/curbs and now it is no big deal. At 49mph, distance covered for a good hop would easily clear the full length of these potholes, but it does require a readiness and enough lead time (ie: holes not hidden in shade) to setup.
Plus you don't even need to cleanly hop it, just so you reduce weighting on the wheels as you exit the pothole.
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Old 07-16-18, 12:02 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
We practiced hopping our road tandem to clear sidewalk/curbs and now it is no big deal.
This would take superb bike handling skills and team coordination, do you have any video showing how you do it?
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Old 07-16-18, 12:13 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Yamato72 View Post
This would take superb bike handling skills and team coordination, do you have any video showing how you do it?
We have not filmed ourselves. The trick we found works best is for the stoker to perform her hop a split second after I do. Do not try to hop at exactly the same time.
Just for fun, you can see some others attempt on YouTube https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...nt=firefox-b-1

My wife is so light that I should try doing a nose wheelie on our mtb tandem when going done something really steep. LOL.
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Old 07-16-18, 02:49 PM
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Folks,

At 47 mph you are traveling 69 ft/sec; fastest reaction time (not time to complete an avoidance maneuver) for a driver is 0.7 seconds (avg. is 1.5 sec); the distance between the potholes appear to be no more than 40-50 feet. You are coming out of a turn at 47 mph and steer to miss the first potholes; by the time you see (assuming no shade) the large pothole and before you can steer around, tell your stoker we need to bunny hop, say a prayer, whatever, you’ve already hit it (0.7 sec at 47 mph = 48 feet traveled). So let’s rule out bunny hopping or any other evasive maneuver.

As for equipment choice, if you had stout wheels and running anything less than 50mm tires you’re most likely getting a pinch flat and quick deflation. With 32 mm & narrower tires I would suspect a blowout. I doubt many, if any of us could keep our tandems upright, assuming we were (the bike may not of even been back vertical yet from steering to avoid the first potholes), if we had a blowout or rapid deflation at 47 mph, thus we are going down. Many a blow-off, blowout, & rapid flat have taken down singles and tandems, especially with clincher tires.

So let’s not sit back and criticize their equipment choices either, but wish them well and be thankful they were not hurt worse. I know I will be alert and check my speed more on downhills, especially hills we haven’t ridden very recently (which is most for us).

Here’s to a speedy recovery for Terry & Lynn Rueter!

Tailwinds,

Charlie
South Louisiana
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Old 07-17-18, 12:11 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
I've jumped an entire 4x8 sheet of plywood lengthwise on my single during a race event. We practiced hopping our road tandem to clear sidewalk/curbs and now it is no big deal. At 49mph, distance covered for a good hop would easily clear the full length of these potholes, but it does require a readiness and enough lead time (ie: holes not hidden in shade) to setup.
Brian
I appreciate your skills and experience but I find it hard to believe at 49 mph one would have a hard time communicating to the stoker the need to hop and pulling off in time especially if the pot hole was not seen until the last minute. You and us both have a fair amount of carbon wheel experience and ride them with confidence but that obstacle could taco any wheel.
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Old 07-17-18, 08:38 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by akexpress View Post
Brian

I appreciate your skills and experience but I find it hard to believe at 49 mph one would have a hard time communicating to the stoker the need to hop and pulling off in time especially if the pot hole was not seen until the last minute. You and us both have a fair amount of carbon wheel experience and ride them with confidence but that obstacle could taco any wheel.
Disagree. When we ramp up for descents like this, we go on high alert for all kinds of potential events... not just sailing down the road especially when the bad road conditions are known. Like the first and only time we went down Hwy 9 to Saratoga which isn't a bad road, but unknown to us, we did so on super high alert mostly due to traffic but still enjoyed reaching over 56mi/h. My GPS map helps a lot with unknown road descents - a quick glance to see what's coming up next.

Deep section carbon wheels with plenty of spokes will not taco like the ones in question here. More likely a tire blow out or fork failure than anything, neither of which would result in a pleasant day.

Either way, ride with what you can live with.

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Old 07-18-18, 08:07 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
Disagree. When we ramp up for descents like this, we go on high alert for all kinds of potential events... not just sailing down the road especially when the bad road conditions are known.
I'm sure that a skilled team can bunny hop at high speed because I know riders with amazing technical skills (eg. bunny hop more than 30" with flat pedals). We would never try a bunny hop at high speed, but we're always on "high alert" for bad pavement, animals, cars, etc. I don't tell my stoker, but I do everything possible to avoid a wheel or brake failure.

Hope that this couple makes a full recovery and resume riding.
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