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Touring Tandems - Panniers Choices

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Touring Tandems - Panniers Choices

Old 03-10-19, 03:09 PM
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Touring Tandems - Panniers Choices

Hello. I am slowly starting to think about purchasing panniers for our soon to exist tandem and since now we will have to divide 4 panniers among 2 people I was wondering whether You have opted for using front panniers of the same size as rear panniers...normally front panniers are smaller than rear panniers on a single touring bike.
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Old 03-10-19, 04:42 PM
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Yes, I have opted for using two sets of rear panniers when toruing on tandem.
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Old 03-10-19, 09:10 PM
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PedalingWalrus,

We tour with rear panniers (Ortlieb Classic Rollers- 41L) & front (Ortlieb Sport Packer Classic 30L) and we find this to be plenty of room. We have also used an Ortlieb Rack Pack (med- 31L) and rear panniers only. We do credit card touring only.

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Old 03-11-19, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus
Hello. I am slowly starting to think about purchasing panniers for our soon to exist tandem and since now we will have to divide 4 panniers among 2 people I was wondering whether You have opted for using front panniers of the same size as rear panniers...normally front panniers are smaller than rear panniers on a single touring bike.
We have toured a little with two sets of Ortlieb rear panniers (so yes, front and rear the same size). We ride in California so our baggage requirements may be lower (we're not carrying a lot of rain gear), but this was enough for a four day camping trip including clothing, sleeping bags, pads, tent, cooking gear, and bike spare parts. We carried some food and purchased some along the way. We packed light but bulky stuff in the front (sleeping bags, pads, etc) so the extra space was nice and it didn't affect the steering.

Rich

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Old 03-11-19, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rahill
We have toured a little with two sets of Ortlieb rear panniers (so yes, front and rear the same size). We ride in California so our baggage requirements may be lower (we're not carrying a lot of rain gear), but this was enough for a four day camping trip including clothing, sleeping bags, pads, tent, cooking gear, and bike spare parts. We carried some food and purchased some along the way. We packed light but bulky stuff in the front (sleeping bags, pads, etc) so the extra space was nice and it didn't affect the steering.

Rich

FYI, Blackburn always recommended packing heavier items in front. I can't imagine this advice would be any different for a tandem, given the additional stability of a tandem, plus inability to go over the bars. This advice for a single was given because the rear rack of a single bike accommodates larger panniers and has ample room on top for tent, sleeping bag and/or other items, giving the rear rack the possibility of having a LOT of weight on it. This potential additional weight on the rear wheel was in addition to the usual 60% of the rider's weight over the rear wheel. Compounding this with the fact that rear wheels are also dished, and therefore more prone to failure, justifies reducing weight on the rear rack. Add to that the historical issue of freewheel axle failure really justified this approach.

Now with tandems, you no longer have the majority of the weight over the rear wheel. In fact, with the traditional larger rider in front on a tandem, the front wheel usually bears more weight these days. That plus cassette rear hubs means axle failure is no longer a problem.

However, wheel dish has increased since this recommendation was made, so it still makes sense to give the rear wheel a break. That plus the fact that the rack can still be stacked upon, means I'd still follow Blackburn's advice and put heavier items in the front pannier to try to equalize weight on front and rear racks. I think equal weight front and rear would be a good approach.

Just thought I'd share that bit of advice.

In addition to this, riders worrying about high weight loads on a tandem would want to consider adding a trailer to the mix. This will allow you to take a lot of weight off the tandem wheels, which for some tandem teams, are already tolerating high weight loads and forces. Panniers in front with a BOB trailer in back isn't a bad approach at all.

But be forewarned, including a trailer may tempt you to tour with everything plus the kitchen sink! No fun dragging all that extra (unnecessary) stuff PLUS the weight of a trailer!

PS Nice rig! Also, over the last 30 years, I've never heard a bad word uttered about Ortlieb panniers. Their quality and waterproofness has made them the leader in the field of bicycle bags. The only negative is the price. But anyone riding a nice tandem is used to sticker shock, no?!

PPS Crystal Springs in your pic with Sutro Tower in the background? I see you're in Campbell, so I have to ask... Have you ridden up Umunhum yet? The new road is a joy to ride and drive and descend. (Hicks is still in bad shape.) I've done it on the single, but I'm nowhere near conditioned to attempt it on the tandem.

PPPS Ha, I just saw you're in Campbell, the former home of Blackburn Designs. Thought I'd toss that in as well...

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Old 03-12-19, 05:36 AM
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I ended up doing 'tough love' approach and ordered a pair of the 35's with the intent to evaluate them and then consider buying another pair of 35's and essentially running all 4 on the bike. So I am aspiring to force ourselves to pack light ;-)
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Old 03-12-19, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus
Hello. I am slowly starting to think about purchasing panniers for our soon to exist tandem...
What tandem are you getting?
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Old 03-12-19, 09:58 AM
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I'm doing a custom build. Frame purchased separately, sent to be painted and then assembled with parts. I'm at stage 2 - frame was sent to be painted :-)

Originally Posted by Paul J
What tandem are you getting?
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Old 03-12-19, 10:40 AM
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We have the Ortlieb Back Roller Classic on the rear, Ortlieb Sport Roller Classic on the front, and a Medium Rack Pack. The Rack Pack was for things we wanted quick access to and capacity to pick up stuff from the markets along the way. We only do credit card tours. Good luck with the 'tough love'.
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Old 03-12-19, 10:50 AM
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We have had Ortliebs for past 9 years, which have been great for month long tours & camping, especially in wet weather. We use the same size front/back. Most of time we don't use the extra space, but when carrying a lot of food for camp or during extended times away from grocery stores or for cold weather clothing, the extra space is very useful. And... some type of frame pack is great for the empty middle space on tandems.

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Old 03-12-19, 11:18 AM
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awesome!
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Old 03-12-19, 11:34 PM
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I just got your user name.

Originally Posted by IPassGas
We have had Ortliebs for past 9 years, which have been great for month long tours & camping, especially in wet weather. We use the same size front/back. Most of time we don't use the extra space, but when carrying a lot of food for camp or during extended times away from grocery stores or for cold weather clothing, the extra space is very useful. And... some type of frame pack is great for the empty middle space on tandems.

"I pass gas" is both funny and odious in the context of tandems. Your poor stoker! (Then again, why would I assume you're the captain???)

But then I realized that you "pass gas" every time you ride past a gas station. Bravo!!! Love it!

And your tandem is a thing of beauty! Very well put together and outfitted. I'd love to hear all of the great adventures you and that thing have seen.
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Old 03-13-19, 05:47 AM
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Our frame also has couplers. I am considering getting a frame bag but I'll see how the water bottles cages work out. I'm more leaning toward the cages that accommodate Nalgene bottles.

Originally Posted by IPassGas
We have had Ortliebs for past 9 years, which have been great for month long tours & camping, especially in wet weather. We use the same size front/back. Most of time we don't use the extra space, but when carrying a lot of food for camp or during extended times away from grocery stores or for cold weather clothing, the extra space is very useful. And... some type of frame pack is great for the empty middle space on tandems.

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Old 03-13-19, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by LV2TNDM
FYI, Blackburn always recommended packing heavier items in front. I can't imagine this advice would be any different for a tandem, given the additional stability of a tandem, plus inability to go over the bars. This advice for a single was given because the rear rack of a single bike accommodates larger panniers and has ample room on top for tent, sleeping bag and/or other items, giving the rear rack the possibility of having a LOT of weight on it. This potential additional weight on the rear wheel was in addition to the usual 60% of the rider's weight over the rear wheel. Compounding this with the fact that rear wheels are also dished, and therefore more prone to failure, justifies reducing weight on the rear rack. Add to that the historical issue of freewheel axle failure really justified this approach.

Now with tandems, you no longer have the majority of the weight over the rear wheel. In fact, with the traditional larger rider in front on a tandem, the front wheel usually bears more weight these days. That plus cassette rear hubs means axle failure is no longer a problem.

However, wheel dish has increased since this recommendation was made, so it still makes sense to give the rear wheel a break. That plus the fact that the rack can still be stacked upon, means I'd still follow Blackburn's advice and put heavier items in the front pannier to try to equalize weight on front and rear racks. I think equal weight front and rear would be a good approach.

Just thought I'd share that bit of advice.

In addition to this, riders worrying about high weight loads on a tandem would want to consider adding a trailer to the mix. This will allow you to take a lot of weight off the tandem wheels, which for some tandem teams, are already tolerating high weight loads and forces. Panniers in front with a BOB trailer in back isn't a bad approach at all.

But be forewarned, including a trailer may tempt you to tour with everything plus the kitchen sink! No fun dragging all that extra (unnecessary) stuff PLUS the weight of a trailer!

PS Nice rig! Also, over the last 30 years, I've never heard a bad word uttered about Ortlieb panniers. Their quality and waterproofness has made them the leader in the field of bicycle bags. The only negative is the price. But anyone riding a nice tandem is used to sticker shock, no?!

PPS Crystal Springs in your pic with Sutro Tower in the background? I see you're in Campbell, so I have to ask... Have you ridden up Umunhum yet? The new road is a joy to ride and drive and descend. (Hicks is still in bad shape.) I've done it on the single, but I'm nowhere near conditioned to attempt it on the tandem.

PPPS Ha, I just saw you're in Campbell, the former home of Blackburn Designs. Thought I'd toss that in as well...
I understand the thought about mounting weight lower down on the front panniers, but on a tandem - as you said - the weight distribution is different than the 40/60 of a single. In addition, the steering on a tandem is already heavier than a single and, with larger than normal front panniers, I didn't want to change that much.

Actually, the quote attributed to Blackburn seems difficult to backup. They did recommend front panniers instead of a heavy handlebar bag. I did find a separate reference that recommended putting more weight in your front panniers than the rear ones, but that seemed to also assume that you were going to add additional weight (tent, etc.) to the top of the rear rack. We didn't add anything else to the rack, everything (including tent and sleeping bags) was in the panniers.

It's not Crystal Springs in the picture, it's a test ride around Stevens Creek Reservoir in Cupertino.

Umunhum is a fantastic ride, although we haven't tried it on the tandem yet. I'm a bit concerned about the descent - 5 miles of unrelenting 10% grade is going to tax your tandem's brakes! We've descended Montebello in Cupertino with no issues, but that's not as steep and there are sections to cool your brakes.
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Old 03-13-19, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus
I'm doing a custom build. Frame purchased separately, sent to be painted and then assembled with parts. I'm at stage 2 - frame was sent to be painted :-)
You will need to share picture here when you finish your build. :-)
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Old 03-13-19, 02:13 PM
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Gladly. It will be at least another month...maybe two before we can ride the bike.

Originally Posted by Paul J
You will need to share picture here when you finish your build. :-)
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Old 03-13-19, 05:45 PM
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We only use rear panniers. That's a 2003 CoMo Speedster. Everything other than the naked bike, food, and water weighs 44 lbs. for camp touring. Whether riding or backpacking, we make an effort to keep the weight down. Bike is awkward to wheel around a parking lot, but is very stable and handles perfectly under way. If we stand, we don't rock the bike at all. We usually pedal seated and take butt breaks on the flat or descents. Because of the aerodynamics, this rig only takes .5 mph off our cruising speed on the flat.

We've added a small bar bag since this photo was taken. Those are very light waterproof panniers made by a Seattle company no longer in business, too bad. The pair weigh 2 lbs. 17 oz., The Tubus Cosmo rack weighs 1 lb. 12 oz. 285 lb. team.

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Old 03-13-19, 07:29 PM
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FYI, when I did a quick static force diagram and measurements of our tandems, the weight distribution is about 40/60 F/R. Of course the relative weight of the riders will affect this, but if you just eyeball where the weight is on a tandem wrt the axles, you will see that it is biased toward the rear.
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Old 03-14-19, 05:25 AM
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I was musing over the weight distribution of our new tandem when I was considering a Rohloff rear hub. I thought that because the captain is almost 60 lbs heavier than the stoker would weigh favorably for the Rohloff. Adding to the fact that we will have our tent on top of the rear rack and that the rear panniers may be slightly larger I think we'll be 'ok' :-)

Originally Posted by reburns
FYI, when I did a quick static force diagram and measurements of our tandems, the weight distribution is about 40/60 F/R. Of course the relative weight of the riders will affect this, but if you just eyeball where the weight is on a tandem wrt the axles, you will see that it is biased toward the rear.
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Old 03-14-19, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LV2TNDM
"I pass gas" is both funny and odious in the context of tandems. Your poor stoker! (Then again, why would I assume you're the captain???)

But then I realized that you "pass gas" every time you ride past a gas station. Bravo!!! Love it!

And your tandem is a thing of beauty! Very well put together and outfitted. I'd love to hear all of the great adventures you and that thing have seen.
yes, and a tandem (double) entendre
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Old 03-18-19, 11:26 PM
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Back Roller Pro and Handlebar Bag




On the "panniers" topic: Since I never wanted to give up my suspended compartment in the front, I had to find some sufficient space in the back. My choice fell on the "Ortlieb Backroller Pro Plus". They give you 35 litres of volume each instead of 20 litres with the "Classic". So now we have "Captains bag" and "Stokers bag". No further discussions and more than sufficient space on all of our credit card tours. We don't need what's not fitting in there. When you drop your first article into one of those "caves" you can wait for the echo sounding back. So better to organize the stuff in there with some extra plastic bags or so. And -can you believe it- stokers bag is always looking better and more thoughtfully packed than captains. I'm such a diva ;-)

One might find it disturbing that the hags look somewhat bulky, but hey, it's a packed tandem ;-)
See pictures...

Additionally to that we always wanted something better accessible during the tours: For bike locks, rain gear, etc. Instead of taylormade frame bags I always wanted to use the free space below stokers bar. And since a few years ago the panniers industry came out with the new "bike packing" trend to fire up their tired business again (by trying to triple the coolness factor of front- and back rollers ;-) they came up with some more or less useful new stuff. My eye fell on Ortliebs "Handlebar bag" and after some tours with it I can say, that we don't want to miss this thing anymore. Even with the little misuse by fastening on captains seatpost it does perfectly what it's made for: Providing some extra and good accessible space (can be loaded and unloaded from both sides). Plus it's not hindering pedalling of neither captain nor stoker. Installing on- and taking off the bike is a little downside (takes more than two seconds) and the price is -of course- ridiculous for a textile tube, but, hey, it's a hobby (they counted on that and naturally they finally got me :-)

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Old 03-20-19, 05:22 PM
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Arkel Orca35 came in today. Looks like great panniers. Size is great for front but I will order 45's for the rear 👍

(so much for tough love&#128512
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Old 03-23-19, 01:19 AM
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This is all we need for credit card touring. We have the 45L Ortlieb bags, a small bag on the rear rack for our rain jackets and a small tripod. Camera bag has a DSLR and lens which weighs a bit. We normally carry about 12kg of stuff for CC touring
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Old 03-23-19, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by geoffs


This is all we need for credit card touring. We have the 45L Ortlieb bags, a small bag on the rear rack for our rain jackets and a small tripod. Camera bag has a DSLR and lens which weighs a bit. We normally carry about 12kg of stuff for CC touring


nice looking bike 👍
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Old 03-24-19, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus




nice looking bike 👍
Thankyou. It's a 2005 model that's recently been upgraded just a bit. Just the 2 rear panniers is all that's needed for CC touring unless you really need to carry the kitchen sink or you just don't know how to pack lightly. I like to minimise what we have to pedal up hills with. This amount of stuff should be enough for any trip and will be all we'll take for or 7 week tour of Italy which is only 6 weeks away.
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