Cantilever link wire length?
#1
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Cantilever link wire length?
The Deore LX cantilever brakes on my drop bar '98 Santana 26"er don't stop very good. I've tried spraying isopropyl on the pads and rims, sanding the pads, and scrubbing the rims with dish detergent, none of which made any difference. Reading Sheldon Brown's cantilever adjustment tips, it seems that there's too much mechanical advantage. The link wires are Shimano B in front (82mm) and A (73mm) rear. Seems that Shimano link wires in longer lengths are harder to source, but Tektro and Sunlite also make longer ones. Does anyone still use cantis, and are you using longer lengths? The choice seem to be between 106mm and 93mm.
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Too much mech advantage should yield good stopping but a mushy lever feel. And perhaps a sense of limited modulation.
My 1st suspiscion, after contamination of pads or rim, would be flex. Poor cabling run, poor outer cables. Maybe poor brakes ot flexy seatstays.
My 1st suspiscion, after contamination of pads or rim, would be flex. Poor cabling run, poor outer cables. Maybe poor brakes ot flexy seatstays.
#3
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Cantilever brakes are difficult to get to work well in my experience. If it were my bike I would convert to linear pull brakes, either mini-Vs or standard length with travel agents, and use green Swisstop pads. Replace cables and housing while you’re at it.
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If you haven't already done so use compression less cable housing were you can. I like Yokohama compression less housing. It works the best of all I have tried. The brake yoke height should be set so there is around a 45% angle on the cable going to the arms on each side. The Swiss Stop or Kool Stop pads would be an improvement. Stopping especially on a Tandem can be a problem. It may be worth spending some money and replacing those old canti brakes. Paul Components makes two style of canti and two two style of V brake that would be an improvement from my experience. I have a 15 year old pair of the Paul Motolite V brakes that I put on my sons fuji touring bike. It came with shimano and the Paul brakes are much easier to adjust and they are better stoppers. If you really like stopping change to a straight or swept back style bar and put the Magura HS-33 hydraulic rim brakes on it. I put the HS-66 brakes on my burly bongo 16 years ago. They are the best stoppers I have ever had on a bicycle.
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Thanks for the responses. I will try the shotgun approach of getting new pads, longer link wires, and fresh cables plus compressionless housing (not sure how much compressionless will help since there's not much housing in my brake line runs, but I can use it for my upgrade of a Spyre caliper for HY/RD on my road bike anyway).
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Turn around and go the other way. You want more mechanical advantage, not less. You want the link wire to be shorter.
I agree that V brakes would be good for you, but you'll need new levers, so try what you can with your current brakes first.
I agree that V brakes would be good for you, but you'll need new levers, so try what you can with your current brakes first.
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Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#7
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If you have no clearance issues mini Vs are a straight swap for canti's and provide excellent stopping power, they are also a lot easier to adjust/setup
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I ended up replacing the brakes with Tektro CR710 cantis and finally have braking power.
What I tried but didn't work:
What I tried but didn't work:
- Compressionless brake housing and new brake cables
- Kool Stop MTB pads
- Changing link wire to the longest 106mm length
#9
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Unfortunately You ... have drop bars
Magura's Hydraulic rim brakes have 2 slave pistons pushing on the rim from both sides,
mounted on V/cantilever brake posts .. typically , with a straight 22.2 bar lever
maybe you can use Shimano Hydraulic road bike levers * also using mineral oil is TRP Hylex RS
a non brifter road lever... master cylinder & fluid expansion chamber for disc brakes..
I've been using the Hydrostops on my trekking bar bike for a decade , now, with no problems..
* this was suggested for their single piston skinny tire time trial/ triathlon bike brake, in another topic thread..
...
...
Magura's Hydraulic rim brakes have 2 slave pistons pushing on the rim from both sides,
mounted on V/cantilever brake posts .. typically , with a straight 22.2 bar lever
maybe you can use Shimano Hydraulic road bike levers * also using mineral oil is TRP Hylex RS
a non brifter road lever... master cylinder & fluid expansion chamber for disc brakes..
I've been using the Hydrostops on my trekking bar bike for a decade , now, with no problems..
* this was suggested for their single piston skinny tire time trial/ triathlon bike brake, in another topic thread..
...
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 05-18-19 at 03:43 PM.
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As a matter of convention, I tend to eyeball the line on the yoke half-link and try for it to be inline when the brakes are in the "applied" position.
Usually, that means that the post is inserted in the brake arm farther from the pad end than near. Then I adjust the brake cable to place the pads about 2mm from the rim. Sometimes that also means using a different frame spring hole than the one you are currently using for brake arm retraction. (Most frames have 3, some frames have one.)
A "flatter" yoke will give the greatest squeeze on the brake track. The trade off is spongy feel and potentially bottoming out the lever on the bar.
The above suggestion of compressionless housing is pretty solid to mitigate "sponge"
Also, a crown mounted cantilever cable stop can help with "shudder" if such an issue arises.
In my household we have a mix of drop-bar & flat bar bikes.
I have several of these. They're awesome. and seem to be pretty ambivalent un regards to pull ratio because they are so adjustable.
Usually, that means that the post is inserted in the brake arm farther from the pad end than near. Then I adjust the brake cable to place the pads about 2mm from the rim. Sometimes that also means using a different frame spring hole than the one you are currently using for brake arm retraction. (Most frames have 3, some frames have one.)
A "flatter" yoke will give the greatest squeeze on the brake track. The trade off is spongy feel and potentially bottoming out the lever on the bar.
The above suggestion of compressionless housing is pretty solid to mitigate "sponge"
Also, a crown mounted cantilever cable stop can help with "shudder" if such an issue arises.
In my household we have a mix of drop-bar & flat bar bikes.
I have several of these. They're awesome. and seem to be pretty ambivalent un regards to pull ratio because they are so adjustable.
Last edited by base2; 05-20-19 at 11:34 AM.
#11
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I stumbled on a site the explains cantis, setup and power rather well.
https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1739/ca...ke-adjustment/
I've been running old school cantis for 40 years, first Mafacs then early Shimanos that were a virtual copy of the Mafacs for geometry. (Those early Shimanos are on my Pete Mooney, have been for almost 30 years. Joys to own and use. Rode 70miles of grave last weekend with 5000' down and never wanted anything else.
A good picture of my setup is on the website above at 4.2 Adjustment of yoke angle in the lefthand photo. Like that brake, mine have a clamp for the straddle cable on one arm so any length straddle can be used. I also run my straddle long. Simple, good power and the performance changes little as the pads wear. The brakes have enough power that I (as a single rider) "de-tune" them with V-brake levers so when I hit them hard for that mountain corner surprise, nothing exciting happens.
There are several brakes out there with the geometry I run. Not cheap, but probably the best is the Paul "Neo Retro", a close copy of the original Mafac done far more nicely! https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/neo-retro/ The Shimanos I am running seem really hard to find on-line. Mine came off an early Miyata 610 of the '80s. Maybe Shimano did a run just for Miyata?
The only real drawback I can see to wide profile cantis is heel clearance. I've never hit them with mine, so I see zero reason to change. When my ancient Shimano die, I'll go out and fork over the cash for the Neo Retros.
Ben
https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1739/ca...ke-adjustment/
I've been running old school cantis for 40 years, first Mafacs then early Shimanos that were a virtual copy of the Mafacs for geometry. (Those early Shimanos are on my Pete Mooney, have been for almost 30 years. Joys to own and use. Rode 70miles of grave last weekend with 5000' down and never wanted anything else.
A good picture of my setup is on the website above at 4.2 Adjustment of yoke angle in the lefthand photo. Like that brake, mine have a clamp for the straddle cable on one arm so any length straddle can be used. I also run my straddle long. Simple, good power and the performance changes little as the pads wear. The brakes have enough power that I (as a single rider) "de-tune" them with V-brake levers so when I hit them hard for that mountain corner surprise, nothing exciting happens.
There are several brakes out there with the geometry I run. Not cheap, but probably the best is the Paul "Neo Retro", a close copy of the original Mafac done far more nicely! https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/neo-retro/ The Shimanos I am running seem really hard to find on-line. Mine came off an early Miyata 610 of the '80s. Maybe Shimano did a run just for Miyata?
The only real drawback I can see to wide profile cantis is heel clearance. I've never hit them with mine, so I see zero reason to change. When my ancient Shimano die, I'll go out and fork over the cash for the Neo Retros.
Ben
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You need a shorter link cable. I have similar Shimano Cantilever brakes with Dia Compe aero levers on my Trek T200. Shimano link wire coded B (I think 82 mm) works the best. Good balance between mechanical advantage and not bottomming out a brake lever. I also tried a shorter Link coded A (72 mm), it makes stopping power even stronger, but I use about 90% of brake lever travel, and to make the brakes properly, the pads need to be adjusted perfectly. Wheel removal becomes a problem too. 90-100 mm link wire I just think is just too long, that's why you don't get enough braking power.
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You need a shorter link cable. I have similar Shimano Cantilever brakes with Dia Compe aero levers on my Trek T200. Shimano link wire coded B (I think 82 mm) works the best. Good balance between mechanical advantage and not bottomming out a brake lever. I also tried a shorter Link coded A (72 mm), it makes stopping power even stronger, but I use about 90% of brake lever travel, and to make the brakes properly, the pads need to be adjusted perfectly. Wheel removal becomes a problem too. 90-100 mm link wire I just think is just too long, that's why you don't get enough braking power.
Either way has the same end result and one method may be more favorable than the other depending on the particular spacing of the studs on a particular bike.
Good point.
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Add a brake booster too.
Thanks for the responses. I will try the shotgun approach of getting new pads, longer link wires, and fresh cables plus compressionless housing (not sure how much compressionless will help since there's not much housing in my brake line runs, but I can use it for my upgrade of a Spyre caliper for HY/RD on my road bike anyway).
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