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Double kickstands--any good?

Old 12-02-19, 10:07 AM
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KenNC
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Double kickstands--any good?

I'm thinking of a Velo Orange or Pletscher double kickstand for our tandem--mostly to make parking in our garage easier. Any experience on the stability of these? Also, I've seen so many crushed chainstays on bikes from kickstand installation, and I definitely do NOT want to do that to this bike. Assume they can be tightened sufficiently without causing damage but again, any experience with this?
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Old 12-02-19, 11:14 AM
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We have the Pletscher. It works very well. Easy to deploy - lift rear of bike (that takes some muscle with a tandem) and use foot to swing it down. The bike is quite stable, even with balanced panniers on. Recommended.
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Old 12-02-19, 04:10 PM
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We have double-legged kickstands on our single E-Bikes (weight is not really an issue). Don't know the brand. They work great.
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Old 12-02-19, 04:43 PM
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That is a Pletscher (Esge) double leg holding up the rear of our Trek T900. We use double leg stands on all our tandems except the recumbent and that is a temporary situation. Recommended.
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Old 12-02-19, 09:24 PM
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We have 2 tandems, a Trek T900 with a single leg kickstand and a DaVinci Grand Junction with a double kickstand. I very much prefer the double kickstand. It is more stable. You can spin the rear tire to check for glass or other hazards, and lift the front and spin the front tire. You can remove the rear tire to change a flat since the rear tire is off the ground. If you have loaded cargo on the rear, it takes a bit of oomph to lift the rear to put the double kickstand down and to lift it up, but that is worth it for the benefits of the double kickstand.
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Old 12-03-19, 06:59 AM
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Alternatively, consider a "Click-Stand" and something to hold the front wheel straight like "Steer-stopper".
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Old 12-03-19, 09:49 AM
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Love my double-leg kickstands! Unless you are trying to be ultra-light, they are well worth their weight (less than a full water bottle, likely).

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Old 12-03-19, 10:41 AM
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We are planning an extended tour in 2021 and will be using a trailer to keep weight off the rear wheel, most likely the Burley Nomad. Does anyone know if these kick stands would interfere with the dropout attachment for the trailer?
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Old 12-03-19, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul J View Post
We are planning an extended tour in 2021 and will be using a trailer to keep weight off the rear wheel, most likely the Burley Nomad. Does anyone know if these kick stands would interfere with the dropout attachment for the trailer?
They don't. All the double leg stands I know of mount at the Stoker bottom bracket. The trailers all mount at the rear dropout(s). [FWIW] We are not big fans of using dual-track trailers with (single track) bicycles. Yes, they usually have a higher ultimate weight capacity but, respectfully, you are doing it wrong if you are exceeding the weight limit of a Bob Yak on even an extended tour. The tandem pictured above has a BOB ready Q/R, and we shop every week pulling the Yak. Getting ready for Thanksgiving for the last 5 or more years means exceeding the rated weight limit (70lb.) by at least 40lb. The trailer has stood up to this abuse just fine but the Pletscher stand has a bit of a limp. There are other double leg stands (cheaper too) that are better able to deal with 120lb. trailer loads. None are as elegant as the Pletscher though. Even the lowly Trek wheels are still as straight as new after all this abuse. Handbuilt wheels are absolutely able to handle the extra weight imposed by a single-track trailer[/FWIW]

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Old 12-03-19, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
They don't. All the double leg stands I know of mount at the Stoker bottom bracket. The trailers all mount at the rear dropout(s).
Thanks Leisesturm, I didn't know if the raised kick stand would interfere with the trailer hitch at the rear dropout, not knowing how far back ends would extend.
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Old 12-03-19, 12:57 PM
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@Leisesturm, I have to ask, 110 pounds getting ready for Thanksgiving? Are you hauling donated canned goods from the grocery store to a food pantry or something?
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Old 12-04-19, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Son_Rising View Post
I've got the Velo Orange dual leg stand on my Sirrus. It works pretty well for light duty. Things like strong gusts and enthusiastic pups can easily knock the bike over though, especially when loaded. I like it still because it does work smoothly, is not too heavy and I'm careful when parking to have it near a wall or pole, tree, etc when loaded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4q_c31kVKQ
Interesting. I find that our Pletscher double leg stand (on firm ground) is much more stable than our good quality single leg stand, including when the bike is loaded (evenly on each side).
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Old 12-04-19, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jethro00 View Post
You can spin the rear tire to check for glass or other hazards, and lift the front and spin the front tire. You can remove the rear tire to change a flat since the rear tire is off the ground.
Something I forgot to mention in my earlier reply: We travel with our S & S coupled tandem. When we get to our destination and reassemble the bike, and after the trip as we are breaking it down to pack up, we can stand the bike up on the double kickstand, without wheels. This lets the kickstand act, sort of, like having the bike on a bike repair stand. Pedals, seats, stems and handlebars, cable routing, cranks, timing chain, fenders, chain installation and cleaning, derailleur adjustment, brake adjustment. All of that can be attended to while the bike is standing erect. We still have to get up and down, but it is much easier than if the bike was lying on a side or propped against a wall, or if my stoker had to hold the bike up.
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Old 12-04-19, 10:36 PM
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The Pletcher is teh way to go hands down. I have owned 3 tandems and would not have a tandem without it. Reasonable judgement when tightening the stand will ensure it is secure but does not crush the frame. Tandems sometimes use heavier tubing so this may be less of a risk with a tandem. I have never seen a frame damaged from overtightening a kickstand but I guess it is possible. For our last tandem we ordered it with a kickstand plate for most secure mounting.
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Old 12-07-19, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by IPassGas View Post
Alternatively, consider a "Click-Stand" and something to hold the front wheel straight like "Steer-stopper".
Also, a piece of Velcro wrapped around wheel and downtube is a very light weight way to keep the bike stable. Use a piece around the front brake also to keep it from rolling or moving. Cheap & lightweight and fits in a pocket.
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Old 12-07-19, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Monoborracho View Post
Also, a piece of Velcro wrapped around wheel and downtube is a very light weight way to keep the bike stable. Use a piece around the front brake also to keep it from rolling or moving. Cheap & lightweight and fits in a pocket.
True, we used to use velcro, but got a steerstopper as gift and like it in combo with click-stand.
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Old 12-10-19, 10:49 AM
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I had Bilenky Cycles add a kickstand mounting plate to both my Santana tandem and Santana triplet (pictured earlier in this thread). Money very well spent, as it makes the twin-legged kickstand setup rock solid. If you don't have a mounting plate, just be careful how much you torque the mounting bracket and bolt down on the chainstays (as others have noted). Rivindell and likely others sells a "sandwich set" that helps spread the load on the chainstays: https://www.rivbike.com/products/ple...nt=23336090241
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Old 12-10-19, 03:38 PM
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It isn't the trailer's overall strength...

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
They don't. All the double leg stands I know of mount at the Stoker bottom bracket. The trailers all mount at the rear dropout(s). [FWIW] We are not big fans of using dual-track trailers with (single track) bicycles. Yes, they usually have a higher ultimate weight capacity but, respectfully, you are doing it wrong if you are exceeding the weight limit of a Bob Yak on even an extended tour. The tandem pictured above has a BOB ready Q/R, and we shop every week pulling the Yak. Getting ready for Thanksgiving for the last 5 or more years means exceeding the rated weight limit (70lb.) by at least 40lb. The trailer has stood up to this abuse just fine but the Pletscher stand has a bit of a limp. There are other double leg stands (cheaper too) that are better able to deal with 120lb. trailer loads. None are as elegant as the Pletscher though. Even the lowly Trek wheels are still as straight as new after all this abuse. Handbuilt wheels are absolutely able to handle the extra weight imposed by a single-track trailer[/FWIW]
... that determines max load. It's the ratio of Yak load to rider and its effects on bicycle dynamics that determines the recommended load. I, too, have overloaded a Yak on the tandem after a Costco run without issue. And I'd concede that the max load limit could probably be pushed up a bit for a heavy tandem team.

BUT, everyone needs to understand that overloading the trailer won't damage it or your bike, but it will seriously increase handling problems, specifically high-speed wobble issues. If your trailer is really heavy and you encounter a fast descent, you may encounter speed wobble/high-speed shimmy that could be disastrous. As in the bike starts wobbling out of control until you crash and crash hard!

My wife and I met another cyclist while on our honeymoon. He noticed our Yak and gave us a stern warning to not overload it. He made this mistake and crashed hard on a fast descent while touring. He then lifted up his shirt to reveal the gnarliest road rash scars that I've ever seen! That made quite an impression on us!

And I'd even be cautious nearing the Yak max load rating for small riders. A 100 lb. rider, for example, wouldn't do well hauling 70lbs. on a Yak, especially on a fast descent!

So everyone should take this into account when loading trailers on bikes. I thought it worthwhile to share in this thread, even though it's really about kickstands (sorry, didn't intend to hijack!).

Also, for those interested, EVERY bicycle will experience high speed wobble. Most bicycles never reach high enough speeds to initiate the problem, so it isn't really worth worrying about. And the high speed effect is NOT resonance, but actually called Hopf Bifurcation. I actually have no idea what this is (save for a layman's understanding of resonance frequencies), but a math professor happened to expound on the subject with Velo News' Lennard Zinn. Anyone interested in the nuts & bolts and math of the subject, can read it at the link below. Enjoy!

https://www.velonews.com/2013/11/tec...-shimmy_309601
(Scroll to last entry.)
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Old 12-11-19, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
... that determines max load. It's the ratio of Yak load to rider and its effects on bicycle dynamics that determines the recommended load. I, too, have overloaded a Yak on the tandem after a Costco run without issue. And I'd concede that the max load limit could probably be pushed up a bit for a heavy tandem team.

BUT, everyone needs to understand that overloading the trailer won't damage it or your bike, but it will seriously increase handling problems, specifically high-speed wobble issues. If your trailer is really heavy and you encounter a fast descent, you may encounter speed wobble/high-speed shimmy that could be disastrous. As in the bike starts wobbling out of control until you crash and crash hard!

My wife and I met another cyclist while on our honeymoon. He noticed our Yak and gave us a stern warning to not overload it. He made this mistake and crashed hard on a fast descent while touring. He then lifted up his shirt to reveal the gnarliest road rash scars that I've ever seen! That made quite an impression on us!

And I'd even be cautious nearing the Yak max load rating for small riders. A 100 lb. rider, for example, wouldn't do well hauling 70lbs. on a Yak, especially on a fast descent!

So everyone should take this into account when loading trailers on bikes. I thought it worthwhile to share in this thread, even though it's really about kickstands (sorry, didn't intend to hijack!).

Also, for those interested, EVERY bicycle will experience high speed wobble. Most bicycles never reach high enough speeds to initiate the problem, so it isn't really worth worrying about. And the high speed effect is NOT resonance, but actually called Hopf Bifurcation. I actually have no idea what this is (save for a layman's understanding of resonance frequencies), but a math professor happened to expound on the subject with Velo News' Lennard Zinn. Anyone interested in the nuts & bolts and math of the subject, can read it at the link below. Enjoy!

https://www.velonews.com/2013/11/tec...-shimmy_309601
(Scroll to last entry.)
True, but It is difficult to distinguish between the two phenomena (the famous Tacoma bridge incident did have a resonance component to the failure). I have heard many teams discuss wobble problems, which I suspect is resonance due to lack of frame stiffness. It is a function of overall weight and frame stiffness (a reason that some teams use trailers). Our old Santana Noventa was very stiff and we never experienced oscillations loaded or unloaded (53 mph once, but won't do that again). Our new Rodriguez is also very stiff and no wobble loaded/unloaded. Both bikes have the extra diagonal stiffener. Marketing seems to be moving away from the extra stiffener, presumably for weight reasons, but that will likely be a trade-off with oscillation problems, again depending on overall weight.
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Old 12-11-19, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Son_Rising View Post
I've got the Velo Orange dual leg stand on my Sirrus. It works pretty well for light duty. Things like strong gusts and enthusiastic pups can easily knock the bike over though, especially when loaded. I like it still because it does work smoothly, is not too heavy and I'm careful when parking to have it near a wall or pole, tree, etc when loaded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4q_c31kVKQ
OT but would you mind telling me which pedals you have on there? I need to replace mine and the grip surface on yours looks like it would work well. (Nice video.)
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Old 12-12-19, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Son_Rising View Post
The grips are stock and came on the Sirrus, not sure of their make. The pedals are Origin8 Ultim8 Trapp pedals. I use them on 3 of my bikes, luv em. I have a video review of them here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHWcqGdesa4
Thanks so much, I really appreciate it. I'll check em both out.

ETA - great video, thanks again, that's very thorough. And if you're trying to make people envious of your natural surroundings it's working.

Last edited by rseeker; 12-12-19 at 10:40 AM.
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