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New Co-Motion Steelhead Di2 - The Great Pumpkin

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New Co-Motion Steelhead Di2 - The Great Pumpkin

Old 03-06-20, 06:35 PM
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tmhudg
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New Co-Motion Steelhead Di2 - The Great Pumpkin

Hi All,

Figured I'd show off my new ride in case anyone was interested. I'm thinking I might document some changes I make as well since I've found that I need to adjust my fit a bit (see my other thread for that story).

We ordered the bike back in early November and it arrived in late Feb. Here are some pics.










We've gone on several shakedown rides and we really like the bike. Aside from my fit problems, I love the Di2 shifting and it handles much more easily than my previous Trek T2000. With the Trek, it was a challenge to do a U-turn even in a wide modern residential street. We had slowly gotten pretty good at standing but it was always just a tad squirrely. With this bike, I can turn it around on a dime and standing has never been easier. I don't know why but I can throw the bike back and forth when we are up and my wife doesn't let out little yelps anymore. I don't know what does what in bike geometry but this feels rock solid. Really like that part of it.

Anyway, let me know what you think or if you have any questions.
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Old 03-07-20, 08:49 AM
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Thank you for the pictures. It is a sharp bike. I like the chain stay bridge because it makes room for larger tires without moving the chain stays out so much. Enjoy!
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Old 03-08-20, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tandem rider View Post
Thank you for the pictures. It is a sharp bike. I like the chain stay bridge because it makes room for larger tires without moving the chain stays out so much. Enjoy!
Thanks. I guess having shorter chainstays is a good thing? I'm not up on all the nuances of geometry and strength tradeoffs.
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Old 03-08-20, 08:24 AM
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So I updated the firmware on my bike yesterday. Honestly, it was a strange/surreal feeling standing next to my bike with my iPad in my hand watching it make a connection to my bike, interrogate for a list of components - battery, left shifter, right shifter, FD, RD, display unit - and then ask if I wanted to update their firmware. I hesitated because I'd read stories of bugs in the E-Tube Project software (who names this stuff?) causing the whole system to brick and require convoluted recovery procedures. I hit the button anyway and it all worked fine.

I did have a little scare though - I wanted to try the Synchro shift mode (I'd been in manual for all my previous short rides) so I put the bike in the stand, enabled Synchro via the display unit, started pedaling, pressed the shift lever - nothing. No movement of the derailleur. Cr@p! I thought at first that the firmware update *did* brick the system but I got my iPad out again and disconnected from the bike and shifting started working again. Phew!

Synchro shifting worked well on the stand so I was eager to try it on the road. In a word - meh. I don't like it and I think I'm going to stick to manual shifting. When it does the double shift it's really not very smooth and we get a bit of extra noise and that skip/fast pedal effect when you don't get a good catch on the chain. I know there is an adjustment you can make for how fast it makes the shift so that might help with this problem - not sure.

I am also going to experiment with remapping the RD shifter levers. By default the right most/long lever shifts down and the innner short lever shifts up. Having never really used MTB shifters, that was not intuitive to me and it took me a while to get the hang of it. Reversing it will make more sense to me (I think). I love the fact that that change is just a matter of a couple of touches on the iPad (I think. Haven't actually done it yet...)
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Old 03-08-20, 09:33 AM
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I meant the chain stays farther apart. Larger tires require more distance between the chain stays. When the chain stays are farther apart, the pedals have to be farther apart. Wide spaced pedals (q-factor) bother some people because their feet are too far apart.
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Old 03-09-20, 08:57 AM
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Nice bike and -again- very nice color. You just have to assure that all other components are black and you are fine. Color-wise.

Plus: Even if I really like our Rohloff hub and I don’t want to change it to derailleurs, but: The cleanness of the look of the DI2

is just great.

The only thing I had to change in your setup (for peace of mind for Ms. Stoker) would be the seat post. Suspension here is

mandatory for her. But if I can have a happy stoker for just 350 grams of extra weight: I don’t even think about it 😉.
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Old 03-09-20, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by tmhudg View Post
So I updated the firmware on my bike yesterday. Honestly, it was a strange/surreal feeling standing next to my bike with my iPad in my hand watching it make a connection to my bike, interrogate for a list of components - battery, left shifter, right shifter, FD, RD, display unit - and then ask if I wanted to update their firmware.
A hint: Don't forget to also update the firmware in the Shimano charger.

Our Macchiato experienced weird battery behavior last year. Updating the firmware on the bike brought no joy, but my LBS pointed me toward the charger. Updating it's firmware fixed the issue.

Enjoy your new toy!
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Old 03-09-20, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by lichtgrau View Post
Nice bike and -again- very nice color. ..
The only thing I had to change in your setup (for peace of mind for Ms. Stoker) would be the seat post. Suspension here is mandatory for her. But if I can have a happy stoker for just 350 grams of extra weight: I donít even think about it 😉.

Thanks. When I first saw this color option, I said "Ewww. No way." It grew on us quickly though and we love the look and are glad we picked it.

She had a suspension seat post on our previous Trek and I was planning on getting one for this bike as well but in our (admittedly few) first rides, she said she hasn't missed it and doesn't really feel like she needs one. I think these big freakin 45c tires might have a lot to do with that. I also read another thread here where a large number of folks were saying they weren't using a suspension post anymore.

I think I'll hold off on it until/unless she says she thinks she needs one.
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Old 03-09-20, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by diabloridr View Post
A hint: Don't forget to also update the firmware in the Shimano charger.

Our Macchiato experienced weird battery behavior last year. Updating the firmware on the bike brought no joy, but my LBS pointed me toward the charger. Updating it's firmware fixed the issue.

Enjoy your new toy!
Good lord. I had no idea I had to update the charger firmware as well! Thanks for the tip!
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Old 03-10-20, 02:41 PM
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Gorgeous bike!
Do you have an estimate for the frame weight? and which size is it?
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Old 03-10-20, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rocknrollin View Post
Gorgeous bike!
Do you have an estimate for the frame weight? and which size is it?
Thanks! It's a size "large" and weights almost exactly 40 pounds (including small seat pack with a mini multitool in it and a MTB frame pump). That also includes the pedals.
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Old 03-12-20, 01:54 PM
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Did you weight it yet? The salesman told me 32 pounds!
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Old 03-12-20, 05:37 PM
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Suspect most of the weight 'penalty' is in the wheels with the tires, brake discs and calipers accounting for
most of the difference in comparison with a road Macchiatto with rim brakes. Pedals and tools might add
another 1.5-2#. Frame is probably a bit more stout than the road variant as well. Fork painted CF?

32# weight is likely for the road variant and is a reasonable estimate for bike sans pedals and accouterments.
If you spend the bucks you can get the road variant down to the 25-28# range but it is not easy.
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Old 03-12-20, 07:33 PM
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I just weighed the pedals and they are 251.7 grams each. Times 4 is 1006 grams which works out to about 2.2 #.

I have another pair that I used to use on my single that is 189 grams and I just put those on the captain's cranks. That's going to save me just over 1/4 pound. Don't know if I need to get my wife a lighter pair also. Maybe save a 1/2 pound of rotating weight.

Yes, it's a CF fork.
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Old 03-15-20, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tmhudg View Post
Synchro shifting worked well on the stand so I was eager to try it on the road. In a word - meh. I don't like it and I think I'm going to stick to manual shifting. When it does the double shift it's really not very smooth and we get a bit of extra noise and that skip/fast pedal effect when you don't get a good catch on the chain. I know there is an adjustment you can make for how fast it makes the shift so that might help with this problem - not sure.
The biggest advantage of Di2 or eTap is front shifting. The improved rear shifting is significant (consistency, speed) but the front shifting is the biggest payoff (no dropped chain or missed shift under load). The Steelhead drive train was configured for cable shifting with lightweight chainrings. Your Di2 front shifting will improve considerably with an upgrade to a Sram Force or Red 50T chainring. These rings look more beefy because they have pins and ramps to help drag the chain up from the inner ring. The Shimano Ultegra and Dura-Ace rings also shift smoothly under load for the same reasons. Unfortunately, the Shimano rings use a 4-bolt pattern and won't fit on your FSA cranks. We got really smooth Synchro shifting with the Red chaingrings.



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Old 03-15-20, 10:26 AM
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That's interesting and good to know. I'm really torn on the synchro shifting. I *want* to like it because of the techno/cool factor but at the same time, I'm not sure I want to just "let the computer take care of it" when it comes to selecting gears. I'll definitely keep this option in mind so thanks for mentioning it.
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Old 03-15-20, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tmhudg View Post
That's interesting and good to know. I'm really torn on the synchro shifting. I *want* to like it because of the techno/cool factor but at the same time, I'm not sure I want to just "let the computer take care of it" when it comes to selecting gears. I'll definitely keep this option in mind so thanks for mentioning it.
Even in full synchro mode, the computer doesn't take over. Depending on the terrain, I might downshift from the 50 to 34T sooner than the programmed shift point. I might also simultaneously downshift the front derailleur, and upshift one or two gears at the back to get a smooth transition. Unlike eTap, Di2 is able to shift front and rear at the same time.

The full synchro mode also acts prevent a severe cross-chain when I downshift too far in the rear (eg. from 28 to 30T) while in the big ring. This is especially useful in rolling terrain with abrupt transitions to steep climbs.
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Old 03-16-20, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mtseymour View Post
Even in full synchro mode, the computer doesn't take over. Depending on the terrain, I might downshift from the 50 to 34T sooner than the programmed shift point. I might also simultaneously downshift the front derailleur, and upshift one or two gears at the back to get a smooth transition. Unlike eTap, Di2 is able to shift front and rear at the same time.

The full synchro mode also acts prevent a severe cross-chain when I downshift too far in the rear (eg. from 28 to 30T) while in the big ring. This is especially useful in rolling terrain with abrupt transitions to steep climbs.
Yeah, I know - poor choice of words. I did have an experience where it was fighting me though. I went to make a double shift in anticipation of some change in terrain (can't remember which) and it shifted the rear back to where it wanted it not where I wanted it. Actually, I'm not sure if I was in semi-synchro or full at that point. I did my last ride in semi and it seemed a little better/smoother and more "controlled" I guess - although it did let me cross chain big ring to big cog like you said full would prevent. I'll keep playing with things and keep an open mind.
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Old 03-17-20, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tmhudg View Post
Yeah, I know - poor choice of words. I did have an experience where it was fighting me though. I went to make a double shift in anticipation of some change in terrain (can't remember which) and it shifted the rear back to where it wanted it not where I wanted it. Actually, I'm not sure if I was in semi-synchro or full at that point. I did my last ride in semi and it seemed a little better/smoother and more "controlled" I guess - although it did let me cross chain big ring to big cog like you said full would prevent. I'll keep playing with things and keep an open mind.
You will probably come across new tweaks with more mileage. You can enjoy your new ride more often in the Spring weather. Cycling is one if few fun things left with all the recent Covid-19 restrictions.
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Old 03-21-20, 06:06 AM
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I took my first ride with my new Garmin 830 computer. I'm in love!

When I was first shopping for a new tandem, one of the things I lamented was the loss of the use of my beloved Shimano Flight Deck computer that I had on my Trek with Ultegra brifters. It had a little graphical depiction of the chain rings and cogs and I could instantly tell where I was in my gearing when coming to a stop or when getting ready for a terrain change. I mentioned this to a sales guy and he said "Well ya know, Di2 (which I had not been considering) will integrate with various bike computers and it will show you your geers." This got me thinking about the possibility of Di2 which was a rabbit hole that I never came out of and here I am.

The thing about the Di2 integration though is that I never really had a good understanding of *how* it integrated with a computer and how exactly it showed the gears. I finally found some material that seemed to indicate that it would show something like "50x32" or something similar. Not exactly my cool graphical depiction but better than nothing. Next was the decision on which computer to get. I know there are passionate arguments to be made for all of them and I don't want to get into that here. Suffice to say that I finally decided on the Garmin 830.

After our first ride with it today, I have to say I'm very satisfied with it. The best surprise is that I get a great graphical view of the gears.






Pairing it up with Di2 could not have been simpler. It just worked. I also borrowed my son's Wahoo cadence sensor and it found that in an instant as well.

While we were out today, we got to a point where we weren't really sure which road to take to get us back to where we wanted to be. I just stopped, zoomed and panned on the map - just like I would on a phone - figured out where I wanted to go, started up and followed the map to get there. I know I can load courses and stuff but this was just free wheeling with no prep and it was very nice. When we got back I "ended" the ride on the computer and a few seconds later my watch pinged with a notice from the Strava app that my ride had been uploaded to my account (either via my phone in my pocket or because we were close enough to my home wifi for it to connect and send it directly - not sure, don't care). That's cool!

I do have to mention that the 830 did "flake" tonight. I went down to the bike to take the picture above and the computer would not turn on. All indications were that the battery had died but it seemed very unlikely. It was over 50% at the end of the ride. I tried plugging it in to power - nothing. I googled it and there were plenty of hits. First thing was "hold the power button for a *very* long time" and that seemed to do the trick. It came on and had 57% battery. Strange.

Anyway, so far, I'm quite happy with the unit.
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Old 03-22-20, 10:47 AM
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I hold my Garmin power button for three seconds to turn it on.
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Old 03-23-20, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tmhudg View Post
I took my first ride with my new Garmin 830 computer. I'm in love!
I do have to mention that the 830 did "flake" tonight. I went down to the bike to take the picture above and the computer would not turn on. All indications were that the battery had died but it seemed very unlikely. It was over 50% at the end of the ride. I tried plugging it in to power - nothing. I googled it and there were plenty of hits. First thing was "hold the power button for a *very* long time" and that seemed to do the trick. It came on and had 57% battery. Strange.

Anyway, so far, I'm quite happy with the unit.
there is a long thread in the garmin forums on this it seems to be a common complaint usually after a full charge it has happened to me once so far and my unit is only 2 weeks old so I hope garmins next firmware update addresses the issue. Great bike by the way.
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