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Improving shifting on Trek T2000

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Improving shifting on Trek T2000

Old 01-03-22, 09:21 PM
  #1  
riceowls
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Improving shifting on Trek T2000

My wife and I ride T2000 that we got about 5 years ago second-hand and put about 3.5k miles on since. Got a good price on the bike but spend more on the upgrades/maintenance. Changed the wheelset to spinnergy PBO-spokes soon after getting the bike. A couple of years ago a rear derailleur broke and I replaced the derailleur (with SRAM), a rear cassette, and front chainrings. Since then (but perhaps even before that) the bike does not shift quite right. Skips gears in the back and sometimes has issues on downshifting in front. Every tune-up/adjustment with different mechanics helps a bit but after a few dozen miles the problems come back. My suspicion is that the shifters (3x9 STI flight deck ultegra) are reaching the end of their life. So I am looking for a moderately economical way to fix the issue.
1) Getting old STI shifters on ebay IMHO is not worth it. These may shift as bad as mine.
2)As far as I know, 3x9 sora is not compatible.
3) I got a quote north of $800 to change to a new 3x10 (parts plus labor) but this is more than I want to spend.
4) I can get 2x10 105 shifters and derailleurs from a friend cheaply but not sure how compatible these will be with my crankset.
Any thoughts on the above?

5) Alternatively, I am thinking of simply buying bar-end shifters, e.g. SHIMANO SL-BS77, and keeping my current levers as break only. I have bar-end shifters on my BikeFriday tandem and enjoy the simplicity and full-proof design.
This seems to be the cheapest solution - am I missing something?
6) Perhaps I can also get 10x or 11x bar-end shifters. What do I need to replace to get these to work beside a rear cassette? Will derailleurs work? Perhaps need narrower chainrings?

Anyway, I don't want to invest too much in this bike as I am considering getting a newer one second-hand (perhaps with couplers if a local deal pops up). But we ride it regularly and I want it to work well.
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Old 01-04-22, 02:21 AM
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1. Check the alignment of the rear derailer hanger. I'd like to think that wasn't overlooked by a long string of mechanics, but I've seen it many times over. This is best done with the appropriate tool in a shop but it doesn't take long. If you have a local co-op they can likely help as well.
2. You mentioned changing the derailer, cassette, and rings. Is the derailer appropriately sized for the cassette? This is only normally an issue in the largest rear sprockets, but is worth asking.
3. I didn't hear mention of a chain, have the chains been replaced at some point in this process? Was 9sp chain used? If it's a SRAM chain it probably has a model number stamped on a portion of the outer links. Mine for example is a 951, and it's on the end of some of the links past the rivet.
4. I'm assuming the cables and housing are in decent condition, clean square ends, etc. If not, that's another easy fix. Some pictures may help us here.
5. I'm running a set of 1st gen 9sp Ultegra STI shifters (silver caps) on one of my bikes. They were trouble free for the first decade I had them (I got them used in the mid 2000's), but now every couple years they need a flush with some solvent followed by shooting in a bunch of fresh lubricant.
6. If you want bar end shifters, why not just get 9sp ones, or go 10sp and use the alternate cable routing to keep the 9sp rear?
7. I've done 10sp front with 9sp rear and chain, but not the other way around, so I'll let someone else chime in on that. I'll argue the front derailer would be fine, but then again I'm using an ancient 7sp Dura Ace front derailer with a 9sp setup, so I might not be the correct benchmark.
8. What exactly happened to the rear derailer that it broke? There might be a few other clues there.

It would be unfortunate IMO to swap out from a functional set of STI shifters when the system may just need some TLC.
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Old 01-04-22, 03:45 AM
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Is your drive chain worn out?

Is your Sram RD a model that is actually compatible with Shimano shifters?

If you do actually need new shifters, Microshift makes some very serviceable ones at decent prices.
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Old 01-04-22, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jccaclimber View Post
1. Check the alignment of the rear derailer hanger.
2. You mentioned changing the derailer, cassette, and rings. Is the derailer appropriately sized for the cassette? This is only normally an issue in the largest rear sprockets, but is worth asking.
Yes, one of the mechanics mentioned bent/misaligned derailer issue and presumably corrected for this. I am not sure it is not appropriately sized but skip-gear issues appear before the largest sproket. It is SRAM derailer but I want to believe the mechanic who replaced it knew what he was doing - he is specializing in tandem.

Originally Posted by jccaclimber View Post
3. I didn't hear mention of a chain, have the chains been replaced at some point in this process? Was 9sp chain used? If it's a SRAM chain it probably has a model number stamped on a portion of the outer links. Mine for example is a 951, and it's on the end of some of the links past the rivet.
4. I'm assuming the cables and housing are in decent condition, clean square ends, etc. If not, that's another easy fix. Some pictures may help us here.
Yes, the chain was swiped when the derailer broke. Changed the chain again recently. Yes, 9spd - KMC X9.93
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Old 01-04-22, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jccaclimber View Post
They were trouble-free for the first decade I had them (I got them used in the mid 2000's), but now every couple years they need a flush with some solvent followed by shooting in a bunch of fresh lubricant.
Is there video/instructions how to flush? I would like to do it.
Originally Posted by jccaclimber View Post
If you want bar end shifters, why not just get 9sp ones, or go 10sp and use the alternate cable routing to keep the 9sp rear?
7. I've done 10sp front with 9sp rear and chain, but not the other way around, so I'll let someone else chime in on that..
I am not sure I follow what you mean by alternate routing and "10sp front with 9sp rear". My only rationale for going with 10 is if that makes it work smoother.

Originally Posted by jccaclimber View Post
8. What exactly happened to the rear derailer that it broke? There might be a few other clues there.
Ooh, that is a funny story. 250 miles into ACA hill country tour (1/2 loop) and perhaps 20 miles from where our car is parked, On a particularly steep hill it cracked and bent 90 degrees into my PBO spokes tearing 4 or 5 of these.

Anyway, my issue is that the bike lives in our cabin ~70 miles of town where we mainly ride it but no bike shoes nearby. If/when it needs service, I take it to the mechanic but driving with the tandem is hard. When adjusted it seems to shift fine for a while but then back to the hilly terrain it starts acting up again. I am getting tired of this cycle. A couple of the mechanics mentioned shifters so I am considering changing these.
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Old 01-04-22, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ross200 View Post
Is your drive chain worn out?

Is your Sram RD a model that is actually compatible with Shimano shifters?

If you do actually need new shifters, Microshift makes some very serviceable ones at decent prices.
The chain was recently replaced. Not 100% sure of the derailer compatibility. Is there any information of what derailers are compatible with STI shifters? Again, it was changed by a tandem-mechanic who knows what he is doing but we all make mistakes.

Not aware of STI compatible microshift shifters, which model is that?
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Old 01-04-22, 11:26 AM
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Bike Gremlin is a good resource for researching compatibility. Here's his page on rear shifters.
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Old 01-04-22, 11:31 AM
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Before you do anything else, get a Shimano rear derailer and try it. You can find new ones cheap…make sure it’s 9 speed…or you can find used ones cheaper. Don’t change or replace anything until you have done this test.

I highly suspect your problem is with the SRAM derailer. Only a few very cheap SRAMs are Shimano compatible. Most of them aren’t. It’s best to just stick with SRAM with SRAM shifters and Shimano with Shimano shifters.
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Old 01-04-22, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Before you do anything else, get a Shimano rear derailer and try it. You can find new ones cheapÖmake sure itís 9 speedÖor you can find used ones cheaper. Donít change or replace anything until you have done this test.

I highly suspect your problem is with the SRAM derailer. Only a few very cheap SRAMs are Shimano compatible. Most of them arenít. Itís best to just stick with SRAM with SRAM shifters and Shimano with Shimano shifters.
I tend to agree that the SRAM RD is likely the culprit. I might also add that many of the 9-speed Shimano MTB derailleurs are also compatible with 10-speed Shimano systems should you decide to go that route.
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Old 01-04-22, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jim_pridx View Post
I tend to agree that the SRAM RD is likely the culprit. I might also add that many of the 9-speed Shimano MTB derailleurs are also compatible with 10-speed Shimano systems should you decide to go that route.
Ok, ordered Shimano RD-M591 Deore Rear Derailleur along with the new Shimano CS-HG200 9sp cassette. As my Polish friend used to say, you can't expect much from a company named SRAM.
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Old 01-04-22, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by riceowls View Post
Ok, ordered Shimano RD-M591 Deore Rear Derailleur along with the new Shimano CS-HG200 9sp cassette. As my Polish friend used to say, you can't expect much from a company named SRAM.
ĎMake sure you replace the shifter cable wire and housing when you replace the derailleur, and use a generously curved loop of cable between the chain stay cable stop and the derailleur.
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Old 01-04-22, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by riceowls View Post
Ok, ordered Shimano RD-M591 Deore Rear Derailleur along with the new Shimano CS-HG200 9sp cassette. As my Polish friend used to say, you can't expect much from a company named SRAM.
Yeah, the RD-M591 will likely be a noticeable improvement. I actually love some of SRAM's offerings, but some of their stuff just doesn't play very well with Shimano and vice-versa. Mixing Shimano components with other Shimano parts can be pretty tricky as well. You're probably off to a good start, though! Be sure to keep us posted!
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Old 01-04-22, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by riceowls View Post
Ok, ordered Shimano RD-M591 Deore Rear Derailleur along with the new Shimano CS-HG200 9sp cassette. As my Polish friend used to say, you can't expect much from a company named SRAM.
To be clear, I donít dislike SRAM. I have several mountain bikes that are exclusively SRAM. Those same mountain bikes are completely nonShimano and work very well. I consider their front triple derailers to be far superior to Shimano.

But you usually canít mix SRAM and Shimano.
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Old 01-04-22, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
To be clear, I donít dislike SRAM. I have several mountain bikes that are exclusively SRAM. .
Yes, I have a gravel/travel bike that is fully SRAM and I like it. But check what sram means in polish....
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Old 01-04-22, 09:06 PM
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FWIW I have a completely multicultural 9 speed drivetrain on our Bilenky: MicroShift R9 shifters, Shimano XTR rear derailleur, SRAM 11-32 cassette, Wipperman chain, Cook Bros. crank with RaceFace chainrings. It works flawlessly.
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Old 01-04-22, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by riceowls View Post
Yes, I have a gravel/travel bike that is fully SRAM and I like it. But check what sram means in polish....
Yea, thought so.

However SRAM should always be in caps because itís an acronym for itís founders Scot, Ray, and Sam.
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Old 01-05-22, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by riceowls View Post
The chain was recently replaced. Not 100% sure of the derailer compatibility. Is there any information of what derailers are compatible with STI shifters? Again, it was changed by a tandem-mechanic who knows what he is doing but we all make mistakes.

Not aware of STI compatible microshift shifters, which model is that?

The Microshift R9 in the 3 X 9 version would be a swap for the Shimano 6503 shifters but bar end, downtube, and thumb versions are also available.
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Old 01-05-22, 01:54 PM
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I had problems with rd shifting on my 3x9 KHS Cross with Shimano RD592 and Microshift TS70-9 when I first bought it new. I tweeked and tuned, but ghost shifting would always annoy me. I just wanted it to shift like my 20 year old Norco Cape Cod with a low end Shimano Acera derailleur.
So, I upgraded to SRAM XO derailleur and X9 shifter. While I was switching over, I checked the hanger, which turned out to be bent. It now shifts like a dream, but probably would have been fine, had I checked the hanger BEFORE opening my wallet.
When researching SRAM, I learned they don't play well with shifters designed for Shimano.
The more gears in the cluster, the closer they all are, and hanger alignment is VERY critical. Add to that the huge tooth span on the cassette, and that makes it even more critical.
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