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Arai Drag Brake and Hugi 95-97 hub

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Arai Drag Brake and Hugi 95-97 hub

Old 05-23-22, 01:53 PM
  #1  
Freerojo
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Arai Drag Brake and Hugi 95-97 hub

Hi, thought this was going to be easier but. I am installing brand new Arai Drag Brake on a 1996 Cannondale RT2000 tandem. The rear hub is a Hugi 95-97. The NDS axel end pulls right off but leaves me nothing to slide the backing plate over. Do I need a whole new axel?




Hopefully either a wrench or tandomeer will be able to set me straight.!
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Old 05-23-22, 02:21 PM
  #2  
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Have you seen these installation tips? Specifically, did you remove the existing non-drive side end spacer before mounting the drag brake? I don't believe you need it anymore, it does not get (step #5) re-installed, just slide in your q/r skewer components (step #6) and proceed from there.
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Old 05-23-22, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Have you seen these installation tips? Specifically, did you remove the existing non-drive side end spacer before mounting the drag brake? I don't believe you need it anymore, it does not get (step #5) re-installed, just slide in your q/r skewer components (step #6) and proceed from there.
Hi, yes I did. The axel end in my hand is all there is and I need something like that to mount the hub back into the frame.
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Old 05-23-22, 03:07 PM
  #4  
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What I need to do is machine out the hole in the back plate to 16mm and then slip the axel extender through the hole. Do I fill the space between the frame and the backing plate with washers to act as spacers if needed?
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Old 05-23-22, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Freerojo View Post
What I need to do is machine out the hole in the back plate to 16mm and then slip the axel extender through the hole. Do I fill the space between the frame and the backing plate with washers to act as spacers if needed?
At the end of step 6 it says, "Please note that Hugi and White Industries use an axle end which does not tighten against the backing plate so it is best to do this step as you secure the wheel in the frame with the quick release." The way I read that is that you do not drill out the backing plate to 16mm. What you do is pass the thin (12mm?) axle rod through the hole in the backing plate THEN you butt the axle end (silver piece) up to the backing plate (it slides on) and call it good. It is kept in place by the q/r clamp. If the axle is the right length for the frame you should not need any other spacers. Is this Hugi hub not the one that already sits in this frame?
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Old 05-24-22, 06:15 AM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
At the end of step 6 it says, "Please note that Hugi and White Industries use an axle end which does not tighten against the backing plate so it is best to do this step as you secure the wheel in the frame with the quick release." The way I read that is that you do not drill out the backing plate to 16mm. What you do is pass the thin (12mm?) axle rod through the hole in the backing plate THEN you butt the axle end (silver piece) up to the backing plate (it slides on) and call it good. It is kept in place by the q/r clamp. If the axle is the right length for the frame you should not need any other spacers. Is this Hugi hub not the one that already sits in this frame?
If I don’t drill it out I would have to stretch the frame over an inch to accommodate the axel extender. The actual axel ends just beyond the cartridge bearing that is visible.
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Old 05-24-22, 09:18 AM
  #7  
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I don't have that hub so can't be completely sure, but based on other tandem hubs I have used (Hadley, etc.), my guess is that there is a spacer in the endcap that can be removed to make space for the outer plate of the drum brake. See arrow in my attached photo. Basically, what you are holding is actually two threaded pieces that screw together, with a removable washer/spacer in the middle. Use two wrenches (adjustable or vice grip) to unscrew the two parts. Install the first part of the drum brake onto the hub, thread the right-side piece of the endcap onto the axle, install the outside part of the brake (the shoe plate) over that endcap piece, and then thread the left-side piece of the endcap on to hold it all together. Depending on the diameter of the endcap space (where the washer-spacer currently is), you may need to drill out the hole in the drum brake. Arai actually made plates with two different size holes to accomodate different hubs. Hope that makes sense, but I'm pretty sure unscrewing those two pieces that comprise the endcap will solve your problem.
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Old 05-24-22, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Philly Tandem View Post
I don't have that hub so can't be completely sure, but based on other tandem hubs I have used (Hadley, etc.), my guess is that there is a spacer in the endcap that can be removed to make space for the outer plate of the drum brake. See arrow in my attached photo. Basically, what you are holding is actually two threaded pieces that screw together, with a removable washer/spacer in the middle. Use two wrenches (adjustable or vice grip) to unscrew the two parts. Install the first part of the drum brake onto the hub, thread the right-side piece of the endcap onto the axle, install the outside part of the brake (the shoe plate) over that endcap piece, and then thread the left-side piece of the endcap on to hold it all together. Depending on the diameter of the endcap space (where the washer-spacer currently is), you may need to drill out the hole in the drum brake. Arai actually made plates with two different size holes to accomodate different hubs. Hope that makes sense, but I'm pretty sure unscrewing those two pieces that comprise the endcap will solve your problem.
I see what you mean and tried to separate but with no luck. I contacted DT Hugi, they have been as helpful as they can and I’m grateful but they explained all this stuff predated their tenure. As far as the axel I need to be careful with this axel end as I don’t want to wreck that Nordic serrated washer, another somewhat hard to find thing.

im still thinking of drilling the hole, insert the axel end and use what ever spacers I need to cover the gap between the inside frame and the brake plate so that when I close the quick release it will hopefully push against the brake plate allowing me to “lock the pads” in position. Does this sound reasonable and most importantly, safe?
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Old 05-24-22, 05:09 PM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by Freerojo View Post
I see what you mean and tried to separate but with no luck. I contacted DT Hugi, they have been as helpful as they can and I’m grateful but they explained all this stuff predated their tenure. As far as the axel I need to be careful with this axel end as I don’t want to wreck that Nordic serrated washer, another somewhat hard to find thing.

im still thinking of drilling the hole, insert the axel end and use what ever spacers I need to cover the gap between the inside frame and the brake plate so that when I close the quick release it will hopefully push against the brake plate allowing me to “lock the pads” in position. Does this sound reasonable and most importantly, safe?

Are both sides of the spacer allen-head fitted (likely 5 mm)? If so, try inserting an allen from each side and unscrewing it that way -- be careful to insert the allen keys far enough to engage but not far enough to protrude past that middle washer. I've done that on a White Industries hub as well as on a Phil Wood -- it would not surprise me if this worked that way, too -- then you put the Arai where the washer was -- in my case both hub spacers were designed just for that use.

Last edited by JulesCW; 05-24-22 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 05-24-22, 05:40 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by JulesCW View Post
Are both sides of the spacer allen-head fitted (likely 5 mm)? If so, try inserting an allen from each side and unscrewing it that way -- be careful to insert the allen keys far enough to engage but not far enough to protrude past that middle washer. I've done that on a White Industries hub as well as on a Phil Wood -- it would not surprise me if this worked that way, too -- then you put the Arai where the washer was -- in my case both hub spacers were designed just for that use.
I tried Allen keys per suggestion, no go. This axel end is solid, the “washer” is only a machining mark or design.
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Old 05-24-22, 10:31 PM
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Our first tandem was set up so that the drum backing plate pinched between the rear dropout and axle locknut. Ignoring the fact that the OP says this one isn't set up that way, it was a real PITA because the hole was a bit too big. In order to center it you had to have one person engage the brake, but not enough to move the wheel, while a second held the wheel back and locked the QR. I've done it solo, but it was never fun.
The second set of wheels I put on that bike had a removable spacer in the end cap and it was much nicer.
The second bike seemed to have the issue mentioned above and the previous owner simply enlarged the hole in the backing plate. The backing plate made a quiet but constant rattle on the axle. I'd talk about how it would wear out eventually, but they put as many miles on the bike in a decade as I might in the next 50 years, so I guess it worked out ok. I shrunk the hole with the metal instant glue machine (wire welder) and it now fits in a slot on the axle like wheel set #2. It's also a snug enough fit to not require adjusting.
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Old 05-25-22, 01:43 PM
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It's also a snug enough fit to not require adjusting.” That’s what I need to,do.
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Old 06-24-22, 01:03 PM
  #13  
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Just wanted to follow up. I took the Hugi axel end and brake plate to a machinist works. I had them cut the axel end with 5/8 threads then enlarge the brake assembly hole to slightly larger than 5/8ths.Finally I screwed on a jam nut to keep the pad assembly from touching the drum. So far so good, just a test ride.


Before threads were cut

Found a nice ratcheting bar end shifter for the drum brake at a local coop.

Finished hooking up quick release cable.

Threads have been cut and jam nut installed.
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Old 06-29-22, 12:14 PM
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I would caution about overusing a drag brake with a Hugi. The hard facing on some of the tandem hubs was subpar and the lock-up mechanism will fail.
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Old 06-29-22, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mkane View Post
I would caution about overusing a drag brake with a Hugi. The hard facing on some of the tandem hubs was subpar and the lock-up mechanism will fail.
When you say lock-up mechanism, are you referring to the freehub ratchet on the opposite side of the hub?
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Old 06-30-22, 06:27 PM
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I suppose thats correct. There 2 flat discs that engage each other when you pedal.

I was once a stoker on a very long downhill 55+ mph. Scared to death. Drag brake full on the entire decent. Must have been 10 miles. Roads called Trinity Grade. Part of the Terrible Two.
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