Front Wheel question
 

Just bought first tandem. We purchased a tandem specific rear wheel, but does a relatively light team really need the mongo front?
The captain is 135 lbs, the stoker is 130 and dropping.

Was going to use my Rolf Vector Pro or a Bontrager Aero on the front, heavy by today's standards and very stiff.

Prudence would suggest calling or Emailing Trek's tech service folks with your question since those are both Trek OEM wheelsets. Off hand, I can't recall what the weight limitations were on those particular wheelsets. While I don't think they would necessarily be prone to a failure in the near term under your team's very low weight, long-term reliability / accelerated fatigue / limited life might become issues.

That's a good suggestion, I think I'll call them.

Thanks,
Ron

Well, that went as expected.
I got the standard, "that's not what it was designed for" answer.
DUH! I know that, the question was not whether it was designed for it or not, the question was whether it would work under the conditions present.

A 9 speed Shimano cassette was not "designed" to work with Campy 9 shifters and derailuers, but it works just fine.

Ciao,
Ron

With your light team weight, either front wheel should not be an issue. Just avoid potholes!
Have actually used a Topolino front wheel (24 c/f spokes); we weigh about 18 lbs less than your combined weight. Our normal front wheel is a Velocity Aerohead with 32 DT Revolution spokes on a King hub. Rear wheel we run same components but with 36 spokes.
As for Trek's statement 'this is not what it is designed for' . . . when Trek's first tandems came out, they used an in-house rim for their tandems; lotsa spoke failures . . . took 'em a couple years to change that.
Having said that, they of course like to/need to cover their butts!

Did they provide you with a max weight limit or did you phrase the question exactly as you did to the forum, e.g., can I use these wheels on a tandem with a 260lb team?

I'd really be curious to know how they would respond to a 260lb consumer asking a similar question regarding the use of these wheels on a single rider bike.

Zron had questioned the use of 'front wheel' only on his tandem . . .
Likely they'd approve of a 260 lbs single rider using that front wheel . . . but not with a tandem; probable reason: Policy!
Our way has always been to push the envelope a bit. Have we had things fail? Yup, a few; the worst? An experimentlal fork that broke after 15,000 miles. Heck, a lot of tandem duos will never put that kind of miles on a tandem before buying a new one!

Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

From what I have heard, the Bontrager tandem wheels are designed to take touring with v heavy people and luggage, so are probably way overdesigned for a light tandem pair, but as a result should be very reliable.

The other thing to bear in mind is that weight saving from light vs heavy wheels is not a large percentage of the team's overall weight - better to have a heavy, aerodynamic wheel than a light non-aero one. That said, if you're only going to ride on smooth pavement, I'm think you would be fine with a single-person rim design for both front and rear. All the Mavic deep rims have a reputation for being over-built with strong hubs, so they could be worth a try.

Caution is probably advisable for the rear wheel, since the rear hub is probably designed for sprinter power on road gears, not sprinter power (i.e. a tandem pair) riding up a steep hill in 32x32, so the pawls or hub bodies may fail (particularly if you take the pins out of the cassette). That said, for non-hillclimb racing on tandems I've seen people on discs, deep rims, 3-spokes, even ksyrium SLs - Just don't be surprised if the wheel having their usage 'stretched' don't last for ever and need frequent maintenance though.

try it on the flats close to home first.

I guess that it would depend on how you use the bike, but I'm a believer in having the front rim match the rear.

I have a personal friend who, while on a week long tour, trashed his rear wheel. NOBODY is going to have a tandem rim in stock. Since his wheels matched, however, he was able to relace his front rim onto his rear hub, buy a stock front wheel, and complete his tour.

A few final thoughts and then I'll go back to sleep on this...

The question that needs to be answered to make an informed decision is, "what are the design limits of the wheel, i.e., what is the maximum weight that it was designed to support." There "should be" quite a bit of safety margin built into any wheel such that when placed under severe conditions, e.g., sideloads from hard cornering and/or hitting a large obstruction, it will not collapse. This same "margin" is also where a wheel derives long-term durability.

So, this brings us back to high performance wheelsets not designed with tandems in mind. Some manufacturers will come right out and tell you the weight limit for these wheels is _____. Others will suggest that there is no weight limit; however, we recommend consulting with your authorized dealer to make sure you select the best wheel for your needs. For example, Rolf provides the following:

Q: Is there a maximum rider weight on Rolf Prima Wheels?
A: We list a max. rider weight recommendation for all of our wheels to serve as a general guideline. Regardless of wheel brand or spoke pattern, road conditions and riding style play a more significant role in determining the limits of a wheel. If you have concerns about what wheel is right for you, please contact your local authorized Rolf Prima dealer for a rider evaluation.

At the the bottom of their Product Index you'll find their weight limits and their single bike wheels top out at 220lbs for max rider weight, with their tandem wheels showing a max rider weight of 380lbs.
http://www.rolfprima.com/products/index.html

Bontrager's FAQ's provide this:
Q. What is the weight limit on Bontrager wheels?
A. Bontrager wheels do not have a maximum listed weight capacity. We do recommend that before purchasing wheels you consult a local Bontrager dealer to find the wheel that suits your body type and riding style best.

Clearly, the internal mechanism on the rear wheel of a tandem must handle a lot more torque than your average single bike. However, the front wheel is the one that must deal with all of the braking forces and the one that -- along with your front fork and brake -- should be looked at as your most critical piece of safety equipment: front wheel failures are without a question a bad thing. Moreover, while there have been all kinds of rave reviews given by folks who have used Ksyriums and a bunch of other lightweight single bikes wheels on their tandems those reviews were usually written within the first 100 miles and aren't always followed up with candid, "boy, was that a dumb idea" long-term reports. Fortunately, most of these folks wrecked the rear wheels before discovering the limits of their front wheels.

So, that brings us back to using a wheel that seems like it should be strong enough: I wouldn't even consider the Rolf for use on anything other than a very limited basis for non-technical time trials. Rolf Prima have enough trouble with tension on their heavy-duty tandem wheels and the Vector Pros pre-date those by many years so, even for limited use, I'd be darn sure they were properly tensioned before slapping them on any tandem: I'm guessing that even at 265lbs you're about 20% over the most optimistic max weight rating, probably more. As for the Bontrager Aero wheels, I'd have to know which ones before making any quesses. 20/24 spoking or something less? Again, there's a reason they built the tandem-specific wheelset and it wasn't only the rear wheel that was beefed up.

Bottom Line: Race-day speciality wheels are just that and any time you're fitting wheels that were designed to be high-performance wheels for a single bike you're using wheels that are not strong enough for a tandem. If pushed to their limits, they will not provide you as much safety margin as a set of wheels that were designed to deal with the heavier weights and loads that a tandem can generate. Yeah, you can probably get by using these wheels for a few thousand miles before they begin to go out of true, creak and show signs of fatigue. But, for the long haul, they aren't going to last.

Well, so far I've got about 8,000 km (5,000 miles) on a 16-spoke Campag Shamal front clincher. The steel Kuwahara tandem supports a 320-lb team, and the wheel still runs true and quiet. However, we never carry bags or panniers. We do take corners reasonably fast, and I tend to use lots of "threshold braking" and "trail braking" thru the corners. I think the rims will wear out from braking before the spokes go, but I'm keeping an eye on thangs here. One big advantage of the Shamal is that the rim is so deep that it provides a big heat sink for braking on descents.

On the rear, I'm using an old 8-speed 36-hole Campag Veloce hub laced to a Mavic CXP-21 somewhat-deep section rim. I've been building my own wheels for over 30 years and it's holding OK. I do have some concerns about the pawls on the cassette mechanism, though, but we'll see. I bought the hub as a 9-speed cassette just to get the cassette mechanism so I could remove it and install it on a 32-hole Record hub on my racing bike (much cheaper than buying the cassette separately). As a result, I installed the previous 8-speed cassette from the Record hub onto the Veloce hub and built it for the tandem.

I do have plans to build another tandem rear wheel using a Shimano mountain bike hub, as I understand these are more reliable for tandem use. Or I may just pack it in and invest in a set of real tandem wheels once I get a job. One concern I have is when you break a spoke on a low-spoke-count wheel, how much will the rim deflect/wobble? And how long can you ride before the strain starts breaking the rest of the spokes on that wheel?

- L.

I forgot to comment on the most important part of this post: "...stoker weight XXX and dropping..." That goes without saying.

Just one point. Have any of you sat on a solo with a set of scales under the front wheel, and then sat on a tandem with the scales. I did once and it shocked me- Made me realise that a Tandem wheel has to be far sturdier than a solo wheel. On my solo MTB I use mavic 517 rims. These are a lightweight rim that will stand up to my solo use, just about. I would not contemplate putting these on the tandem as they would not last for very long. And that would even be with just road use. The load put on a front wheel on a Tandem is far greater than a solo wheel is intended for. Now if the rim was a sturdier- "Freeride" quality or even Downhill, then I would use it. Other wise I would bite the bullet and get a wheel I could trust.