jvswan

Hi folks:

I apologize if this has been discussed. I only read threads back about six months and I couldn't access the search feature of the site for some reason...

Anyway, we inherited my parents' Lippy tandem. It is in great shape but in need of some upgrades since it was built for them in the early 1990s. I am upgrading to Campy Ergo shifters and moving to 9 speed from the old six speed cassette that was on it. Now I want to upgrade the brakes.

Any suggestions? Currently it sports an old set of center pull cantilever brakes. I installed a set of V-brakes on my daughter's mountain bike a while ago. Would something like those work better?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Jason

Ashen

Nothing wrong with cantis, just get some new pads and call it good. I like the koolstop salmon ones.

zonatandem

A Lippy!!! Have only seen a couple of them and all were beautifully built tandems.
Unless the cantis do not provide adequate stopping power, suggest to keep them. If you keep the cantis, longer new brake pads and teflon coated cables/housing could be an added benefit.
V-brakes would work just fine, but you may need to add a set of in-line cable amplifiers to work properly with Ergo shifters.
Enjoy the Lippy!

Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

TandemGeek

[Edit: Disregard this comment - see below] I'm guessing the original rear spacing would have been 126mm with the 6 speed freewheel hub. Just curious how much wider you're going and who's doing the respacing for the 9 speed?

Anyway, back to your brake questions...

Which brand and model of cantilever brakes are currently on the tandem? If they are better quality cantilevers, your parents were of similar size and road on similar terrain and did not report any problems with the brakes, then as others have suggested some new pads and cable may suffice. If they reported problems and you don't have some unusually heavy-duty braking needs (large team, loaded touring, pulling a trailer, etc...), then a pair of the newer, more powerful cantilever brakes should work just fine.

As for the linear-pull (aka, Shimano V-brakes); it depends. You'd need to make sure that the rear brake bosses are wide enough and/or the rims you'll use are narrow enough to work with the particular model of linear pull brakes you are considering. If the bosses are too close -- which is possible given how narrow the rear drop-outs are -- you can end up with a sub-optimium brake installation, i.e., splayed brake arms instead of parallel. Assuming you did find a good match for the width of your brake bosses/stays and rim, with linear pull brakes, you'd also need to use a brake-pull modifier, aka a 'Travel Agent' to accommodate the Ergo shifters.

Just some things to consider...

Enjoy the Lippy. We have two friends who have owned or still own Lippy tandems and they certainly enjoyed the bikes. Definitely not a brand that you'll find on every corner, if at all once you get away from the Northwest.

zronn

Can you recommend a brand or place where one can find in-line cable amplifiers?

I would like to add one to my rear disc brake.

I am using 105 9 speed shifters.

Thanks,
Ron

TandemGeek

Problem Solvers In-Line Travel Agent: $19.95 at Excel (Usually about $22-24)
https://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?p...ajor=6&minor=8

SideTrak Brake Power Booster (BPB): $29.95
https://bicyclemall.com/showads.asp?c...ount=5&index=0

More Info on BPB: https://www.sidetrak.com/Catalog/components.html

Both perform the same function, they just achieve the desired result differently.

vosyer

I have never seen a 126 spaced Lippy - I have seen 130 and 135 and if that is the case you are okay with 9 speed as long as you use road hubs and nothing tandem specific. I have come close twice to buying a Lippy and contacted him Oregon. I decided not buying because of the 130 and 135 spacing. I am a big fan of 145 spacing and 160 with a Santana. (TG) - do really think this bike is spaced 126? It may have been 6 speed but spaced 130 or 135. I have had bikes spread 120 to 130 but 126 to 145 would be pushing it. I just got done bringing a 40 hole 145 Hugi Tandem hub down to 135 with smaller spacer for my touring single bike.

TandemGeek

No, that was a Brain F--t. I read 6 speed and was drawn back to the last 6 speed frame that I respaced, which was a personal road bike.

It is more likely 135mm so, as Emily Litella would say, "Never Mind".

ElRey

I have had very good luck with Shimano XT brakes. They are a good improvement over Avid Single Digit 7's for a reasonable price.

zronn

Nailed it, the Problem Solver is exactly what I need. Thanks!!!!

jvswan

Hey all:

Thanks for the discussion. Dang! I had no idea how much I didn't know about bikes... I don't have a clue what the "spacing" is on my 6 spd freewheel. I figured I'd buy a new stack and slap it on. Got a chain whip and a shimano wrench, I'm good to go! Riiiiiiiight...

Anyway, perhaps I'll give the old cantis a try first. My wife and I aren't small folks. The brakes worked ok for mom and dad, but long decents in Oregon got kinda hairy. He always talked about puting a hub brake on. I had also read that the new cantilever and v-brake configuration gave more stopping power with less effort. So, I just sorta figured it would be a good upgrade.

In any case, sounds like my money might be better spent building a new home for the 9 speed stack that will match my new shifters

Thanks again. FYI, if anyone is wondering, Keith Lippy stopped building bikes in earnest a few years ago. Has been teaching school, a longtime dream. Won't be to many more Lippys around as time goes by. But he did build 'em nice. Ours has eliptical tubes and a nice two-tone blue fade paint job. I have a Lippy single, too.

vosyer

I found Mr. Lippy very helpful when I tracked him down to about one of his tandems in California and another in the Tri Cities. I agree beautiful bikes - he changed the stoker's area - orginally alittle cramped, but over time he made them bigger. Alao alot his bikes were Campy equiped because of the 130 - and 135 spacing.

lhbernhardt

OK, here's the contrarian perspective. My circa 1980 Kuwahara steel tandem originally came with cantis, but when I dusted off the bike a few years ago, the popular consensus was to install v-brakes for their awesome stopping power. However, in order to use my Campag Ergopower levers, I had to install Travel Agents, which neatly cancelled out any leverage advantage v-brakes might have had.

At this year's Seattle Bike Expo, Co-Motion had Tektro mini-V's with no Travel Agents installed on one of their tandems. So I ordered and installed a set of these. Nope, still need Travel Agents if I don't want the pads rubbing, and now I have even less leverage because the caliper arms are shorter.,

Well, I have finally arrived at the best tandem braking solution (for our style of riding) so far:
IMG_0133a.jpg

Despite the Mavic sticker (hey, last weekend somebody actually thought it was a Mavic brake!), this is a very long reach Tektro dual pivot sidepull (around $10 from Bike Tools Etc). There's no quick release, but the Ergopower levers have those, and they open wide enough to let in a 700x23 tire. The only modificaton is replacing the original abrasive pads with salmon Kool Stop Eagle 2's. I was surprised by how beefy it was, and over the course of the past couple of months it's worked great on the rear (due to clearances, I'm still using the mini-V's in front). We did the long rides at NWTR Corvallis, we went down 9 km of gravel off Jack's Pass, and we've done a few pretty steep though short descents, and the brakes work better than any v-brakes or cantis previously installed.

We never carry bags or panniers (heck, we don't even have a rear rack installed), so for the kind of tandem riding we do, dual pivots work great. Next step is a carbon fork and a front dual pivot in a shorter length. Having been a roadie most of my life, I just prefer the feel of real road brakes, and I think the dual pivots work 100% better than the older single-pivot sidepulls.

- L.

2372ighost

You're going to have to change out your rear hub to a freehub(cassette) if you are going to 9 speed. The 6 speed freewheel can only be upgraded to 7 speed.
Look here:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

TandemGeek

This presupposes that our new friend's Lippy tandem has both stay-mounted brake bosses as well as a brake bridge with a mounting hole for a center pull brake similar to how your Kuwahara was presumably equipped.

As I recall, my rigid '87 Kuwaraha Cougar MTB had a center drilled brake bridge -- I believe the required OEM rear reflector may have been attached to it at delivery -- as well as the U-Brake bosses under the chain stays. Yeah, it had bio-pace rings too... It was a collector's item for sure; wish I'd have kept it.

Anyway, jvswan will have to advise if he has more than one brake mounting option as I don't recall him mentioning that in his previous notes nor can I recall what the brake installations were on the Lippy tandems that I've seen and worked on (although I seem to recall they were cantis on bosses).

metal_cowboy

I have some Avid ultimate V-brakes on my tandem. I orginally bought the brakes for my mountain bike, they worked so well that I installed them on my Co-Motion tandem.