Tires
#1
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Tires
I am replacing the tires on my Burley Tamburello. It has 700x28c on it now. I am fairly new to cycling and even newer to the world of tandems. I am looking at Gatorskin tires in the same size. Looking for suggestions on what is the correct tire for road riding. I will be riding with my 9 year old son. We have a couple multi-day rides planned for the summer. Dalmac here in Michigan and 1 self supported ride into Wisconsin.
Last edited by clint262; 12-08-08 at 02:35 PM. Reason: needed more info
#2
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Correct tire? Depends on team weight, your style of riding, goals, priorities, and price sensitivity. Do you care more about going fast, or avoiding flats?
All that said, a lot of people find Gatorskins to be a pretty good all around tire for tandem use.
All that said, a lot of people find Gatorskins to be a pretty good all around tire for tandem use.
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As merlin stated above, depends upon your needs and $$.
Have been tandeming for over 3 decades (including a few years in Michigan) and have run all sorts of road rubber with varying results.
Currently on (and happy) Maxxis Re-Fuse (kevlar beaded/folding) 700x 25s on our Zona tandem for the last few years. Decent price, mileage and flat protection for us.
Have been tandeming for over 3 decades (including a few years in Michigan) and have run all sorts of road rubber with varying results.
Currently on (and happy) Maxxis Re-Fuse (kevlar beaded/folding) 700x 25s on our Zona tandem for the last few years. Decent price, mileage and flat protection for us.
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Greater than 25mm necessary?
As merlin stated above, depends upon your needs and $$.
Have been tandeming for over 3 decades (including a few years in Michigan) and have run all sorts of road rubber with varying results.
Currently on (and happy) Maxxis Re-Fuse (kevlar beaded/folding) 700x 25s on our Zona tandem for the last few years. Decent price, mileage and flat protection for us.
Have been tandeming for over 3 decades (including a few years in Michigan) and have run all sorts of road rubber with varying results.
Currently on (and happy) Maxxis Re-Fuse (kevlar beaded/folding) 700x 25s on our Zona tandem for the last few years. Decent price, mileage and flat protection for us.
Can you see any need to run a tire width of greater than 25mm, with a team weight of less than 300lbs, and no supported touring bags on the bike? I’m just wondering if I really need 28mm tire clearance on the Calfee I’m having built.
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One thing that is not mentioned above is that the road surface matters. On perfectly smooth pavement with a light team you may indeed be able to use 700 X 25's with no problems. On rough secondary roads in North Texas, a wider tire may be a better idea. I remember a fit, medium-weight team that tried to do Hotter'n Hell with the stock 700 X 26's that came on their Santana. They had five pinch flats over the course of the day. Of course, in a tight pack, your choice of lines around surface irregularities is greatly restricted, and sometimes you have to go straight and hope the tire volume and pressure are enough.
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Hi,
For non-loaded, relatively fast riding 25-28mm tyres with an experienced team that scans the road for potholes you should be OK. My priority is always to get a tyre that grips well in the wet and rolls nicely over anything else as this will feel nicer to ride and avoid crashes by giving you extra grip when braking and cornering. Currently I ride 25mm Michelin Pro Race IIs, which are much more comfortable and grippy than the 28mm Bontrager Racelite last forever unpuncturable tractor tyres that our T2000 tandem came with.
Potholes shouldn't be a deciding factor as they will kill pretty much any tyre if you hit them hard enough. You just need slightly more pressure in a narrower tyre to get through the bumps. While I don't know how much pressure SDS' team mentioned above had in their tyres, my guess would be that it wasn't enough, particularly if they were pumping the tyre up after their first puncture with a hand pump. I'm not familiar with Texus roads, but my guess is that they're unlikely to be much worse than London. We use 125psi in my 25mm tyres and have had no problems so far. However I ride carefully, and call out bumps if I can't go round them and unweight the saddleas the stoker otherwise complains loudly.
I would definitely get your Calfee with at least 30 mm tyre clearance at the rear, though tell them you will run 25-28mm 99% of the time, so only need 28mm clearance at the fork as you can easily change that if you plan on touring.
Asking for 28mm clearance in the fork allows use of a lightweight Alpha Q carbon fork, which is nice and comfy as well as improving performance of the tandem by being lighter than alternatives. To my mind there is very little downside to having a bit of extra clearance at the rear.
For non-loaded, relatively fast riding 25-28mm tyres with an experienced team that scans the road for potholes you should be OK. My priority is always to get a tyre that grips well in the wet and rolls nicely over anything else as this will feel nicer to ride and avoid crashes by giving you extra grip when braking and cornering. Currently I ride 25mm Michelin Pro Race IIs, which are much more comfortable and grippy than the 28mm Bontrager Racelite last forever unpuncturable tractor tyres that our T2000 tandem came with.
Potholes shouldn't be a deciding factor as they will kill pretty much any tyre if you hit them hard enough. You just need slightly more pressure in a narrower tyre to get through the bumps. While I don't know how much pressure SDS' team mentioned above had in their tyres, my guess would be that it wasn't enough, particularly if they were pumping the tyre up after their first puncture with a hand pump. I'm not familiar with Texus roads, but my guess is that they're unlikely to be much worse than London. We use 125psi in my 25mm tyres and have had no problems so far. However I ride carefully, and call out bumps if I can't go round them and unweight the saddleas the stoker otherwise complains loudly.
I would definitely get your Calfee with at least 30 mm tyre clearance at the rear, though tell them you will run 25-28mm 99% of the time, so only need 28mm clearance at the fork as you can easily change that if you plan on touring.
Asking for 28mm clearance in the fork allows use of a lightweight Alpha Q carbon fork, which is nice and comfy as well as improving performance of the tandem by being lighter than alternatives. To my mind there is very little downside to having a bit of extra clearance at the rear.
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- Wound Up vs Alpha Q fork?
- Rear brake bridge clearance issue / need for standard reach caliper?
Has Calfee finalized the design and started fabrication? - Rear brake bridge clearance issue / need for standard reach caliper?
For what it's worth, IMHO and as a sub 300 lbs team your tire size will be dictated by your road conditions more so than anything else I can think of. We've been running 145 psi 700x23c Vredestein Fortezza tires on our tandems -- including the Calfee -- since day 1 back in '97 when we're on home turf as our roads here in Georgia as well as up in SE Tennessee tend to be very smooth. When we've headed to places where we knew we'd encounter extensive chip seal roads or up north where expansion joints and/or frost heaving makes for busted up roads I've fitted the 25mm version of the Fortezza tires and, if it's really bad, I'll knock the air pressure on the 25mm tires down from 135 psi to 120 psi.
To us, the 25mm tires feel pretty cushy coming off of the rock hard 23mm tires but, then again, on the Calfee tandem everything feels pretty cushy. Moreover, about the only time we'll get a pinch flat is AFTER we've already had a flat where hand pumps have made it hard to get the narrow 23mm tires back up over 100 psi and then encounter a sharp break in the road. I've started to stuff a C02 cart. in our seat back to use for "topping off" as a way of eliminating the rim hit / pinch flat problem now that we're running the more pricey 'boutique" wheels that don't lend themselves to home rim replacement. Nicking a Deep-V rim was never a big deal as I always have a spare rim around and can cross lace a new rim to an existing wheel in about 30 minutes.
Anyway, you're about the only one who can draw on your own experiences with tire size to determine what you'll really want or need for your tandem. 28mm is the 'default' on most non-racing tandems so dropping down to 25mm for a lightweight team really isn't that big of a stretch.
Of course, if Calfee has already fabricated your rear triangle and set the rear brake bridge....
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I would definitely get your Calfee with at least 30 mm tyre clearance at the rear, though tell them you will run 25-28mm 99% of the time, so only need 28mm clearance at the fork as you can easily change that if you plan on touring.
Asking for 28mm clearance in the fork allows use of a lightweight Alpha Q carbon fork, which is nice and comfy as well as improving performance of the tandem by being lighter than alternatives. To my mind there is very little downside to having a bit of extra clearance at the rear.
Asking for 28mm clearance in the fork allows use of a lightweight Alpha Q carbon fork, which is nice and comfy as well as improving performance of the tandem by being lighter than alternatives. To my mind there is very little downside to having a bit of extra clearance at the rear.
I'll have to check my specs as I want to say that I may have asked for 28mm rear tire clearance but stuck with the compact caliper / lower brake bridge.... and it's tight back there. Somewhere in the back of my mind I want to say that Craig and I went back over this and reconciled that we'd never use anything bigger than a 25mm rear tires.
As for the Alpha Q and tire clearance, here's a photo of a 25mm tire that measures 26mm passing under our 'new' Alpha Q fork crown, noting the newer Alpha Q's have longer aluminum drop-outs vs. the older models which was their solution to creating a bit more tire clearance.
I've heard said that the Alpha Q can now handle a 28mm tire with this slight change, however it REALLY looks tight and can only remember one of the list members saying they we using a 28mm tire on their fork. Again, I don't doubt 28mm tires that truly are 28mm will fit; however, I'd be concerned about how much wear and tear the fork would see from any debris that the tire carried into the crown opening given the minimal clearance.
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Wow! Lots of information back on this issue!
What are you running into with the Calfee that makes 28mm tire clearance undesireable?
For what it's worth, IMHO and as a sub 300 lbs team your tire size will be dictated by your road conditions more so than anything else I can think of. We've been running 145 psi 700x23c Vredestein Fortezza tires on our tandems -- including the Calfee -- since day 1 back in '97 when we're on home turf as our roads here in Georgia as well as up in SE Tennessee tend to be very smooth. When we've headed to places where we knew we'd encounter extensive chip seal roads or up north where expansion joints and/or frost heaving makes for busted up roads I've fitted the 25mm version of the Fortezza tires and, if it's really bad, I'll knock the air pressure on the 25mm tires down from 135 psi to 120 psi.
To us, the 25mm tires feel pretty cushy coming off of the rock hard 23mm tires but, then again, on the Calfee tandem everything feels pretty cushy. Moreover, about the only time we'll get a pinch flat is AFTER we've already had a flat where hand pumps have made it hard to get the narrow 23mm tires back up over 100 psi and then encounter a sharp break in the road. I've started to stuff a C02 cart. in our seat back to use for "topping off" as a way of eliminating the rim hit / pinch flat problem now that we're running the more pricey 'boutique" wheels that don't lend themselves to home rim replacement. Nicking a Deep-V rim was never a big deal as I always have a spare rim around and can cross lace a new rim to an existing wheel in about 30 minutes.
Anyway, you're about the only one who can draw on your own experiences with tire size to determine what you'll really want or need for your tandem. 28mm is the 'default' on most non-racing tandems so dropping down to 25mm for a lightweight team really isn't that big of a stretch.
Of course, if Calfee has already fabricated your rear triangle and set the rear brake bridge....
- Wound Up vs Alpha Q fork?
- Rear brake bridge clearance issue / need for standard reach caliper?
Has Calfee finalized the design and started fabrication? - Rear brake bridge clearance issue / need for standard reach caliper?
For what it's worth, IMHO and as a sub 300 lbs team your tire size will be dictated by your road conditions more so than anything else I can think of. We've been running 145 psi 700x23c Vredestein Fortezza tires on our tandems -- including the Calfee -- since day 1 back in '97 when we're on home turf as our roads here in Georgia as well as up in SE Tennessee tend to be very smooth. When we've headed to places where we knew we'd encounter extensive chip seal roads or up north where expansion joints and/or frost heaving makes for busted up roads I've fitted the 25mm version of the Fortezza tires and, if it's really bad, I'll knock the air pressure on the 25mm tires down from 135 psi to 120 psi.
To us, the 25mm tires feel pretty cushy coming off of the rock hard 23mm tires but, then again, on the Calfee tandem everything feels pretty cushy. Moreover, about the only time we'll get a pinch flat is AFTER we've already had a flat where hand pumps have made it hard to get the narrow 23mm tires back up over 100 psi and then encounter a sharp break in the road. I've started to stuff a C02 cart. in our seat back to use for "topping off" as a way of eliminating the rim hit / pinch flat problem now that we're running the more pricey 'boutique" wheels that don't lend themselves to home rim replacement. Nicking a Deep-V rim was never a big deal as I always have a spare rim around and can cross lace a new rim to an existing wheel in about 30 minutes.
Anyway, you're about the only one who can draw on your own experiences with tire size to determine what you'll really want or need for your tandem. 28mm is the 'default' on most non-racing tandems so dropping down to 25mm for a lightweight team really isn't that big of a stretch.
Of course, if Calfee has already fabricated your rear triangle and set the rear brake bridge....
Thanks for all the info!
#10
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Supposedly pumps to 160 psi. Definitely pumps better than anything else I've ever used. Plus it has a hose, so no worry about ripping out another valve stem. Bought mine after a pump failure on a brevet, when a young lady with just this pump stopped to give me a hand. I was impressed.
I carry ours on a bracket from a mountain pump that attaches under a bottle cage, not the bracket that comes with the Morph.
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Yes, I've got one of those, plus about 5 Blackburn frame pumps and a couple Zephals... all of which cite 160 psi. I actually believe you 'could' get upwards of those pressures in the tires with those pumps; however, to do so takes a heck of a lot of work and time given the very small volume of the pump vs. the volume of full-size bicycle tires. Even the Topeak stuggles above 100 psi, as we purchased that pump to take along with us on trips as our 'psuedo floor pump'. However, it's really a poor substitute for the real thing.
Again, they're all very good and very effective at getting to about 100 psi... which will get you home on skinny tires.
Again, they're all very good and very effective at getting to about 100 psi... which will get you home on skinny tires.
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Early on, when Alpha Q was owned by AME they marketed the X2 tandem fork as being suitable for a 28mm tire; however, in practice it just didn't. After True Temper acquired the Alpha Q line from AME they eventually changed the spec. to 25mm. However, about 2 years ago they started to make the aluminum drop-outs a little bit longer to increase the available clearance so that 28mm tires could be used.
Again, I have three Alpha Q X2 folks at the house -- an '02 model based on the original AME molds, an '07 model that has the longer drop-outs and an '08 model that I picked up as a spare "just in case" -- and it still looks like it would be pretty tight with a 28mm tire in those newer forks. I say looks only because I simply haven't had a tire any larger than a 25mm in my shop except for the OEM tires that came on our '96 Santana... and which were quickly replaced with 23mm Vredestein's.
Keep us posted.
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Frank
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A 25 mm tire whould be sufficient if you are sub-300 lbs total weight.
But as stated, road surfaces do play a part in comfort; however a c/f tandem soaks up much of the road vibes.
Many stokers have abandoned shock absorbing seatpost when they got a c/f tandem.
For years we ran 23mm tires front and rear on our tandems.
As for pumps, we use the Topeak Mt. Morph and have no problems inflating our tires to the desired
pressure.
But as stated, road surfaces do play a part in comfort; however a c/f tandem soaks up much of the road vibes.
Many stokers have abandoned shock absorbing seatpost when they got a c/f tandem.
For years we ran 23mm tires front and rear on our tandems.
As for pumps, we use the Topeak Mt. Morph and have no problems inflating our tires to the desired
pressure.
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Done deal!
Frame order went into Calfee yesterday, so all choices are now final. I went with the 28 mm tire clearance option, and the Alpha Q fork. I spoke with Mark, at Precision Tandems, and the new Alpha fork has clearance for 28 mm tires. I did have lugs added for a rear rack, so I do have the option to add some light touring bags if I later decide to tour with this bike.
#16
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Our Robusta, with an Alpha Q fork came with 28mm Continental 4 Seasons.
At a team weight of 340lbs we are running 25mm Continental 4000's with no problems.
At a team weight of 340lbs we are running 25mm Continental 4000's with no problems.
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Does anyone run paired, "optimized" front/rear tires like https://www.schwalbetires.com/node/1382 Stelvio Front & Rear HS 347 ?
(Continental has a similar concept with their "Attack/Force" 22mm/24mm pairs)
To quote Schwalbe, "Different rubber compounds specially developed and optimized for front and rear wheels. Maximum cornering grip and stopping power for the FRONT wheel. Energy loss minimized on the REAR wheel."
Bike Tires Direct has these for a very attractive price for a pair right now.
(Continental has a similar concept with their "Attack/Force" 22mm/24mm pairs)
To quote Schwalbe, "Different rubber compounds specially developed and optimized for front and rear wheels. Maximum cornering grip and stopping power for the FRONT wheel. Energy loss minimized on the REAR wheel."
Bike Tires Direct has these for a very attractive price for a pair right now.
Last edited by moleman76; 12-11-08 at 10:40 AM.
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#20
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I like the Gatorskins 700x28.
I feel like the weight of the vehicle should have an impact on what tire width you run. Same as with cars.
For controlling 300 lb of body and 40lb of equipment coming down a mountain at 30+ mph with sharp curves and rough roads, I trust the 28s. More grip yields better braking and handling. The larger volume of air also has slightly more heat capacity (for those with rim brakes). I will gladly sacrifice the extra couple watts we would have to generate to run the 28s versus a 23/25. I mean, ours are pumped to 120 psi F&R, so it's not like running MTB tires or something.
PS - For those thinking that running a smaller tire up front, might be a way to cut rolling resistance and drag, consider that the weight distribution for tandem teams is often close to 50/50.
See this excellent Excel spreadsheet:
https://tandem-fahren.de/Mitglieder/C...stribution.xls
I feel like the weight of the vehicle should have an impact on what tire width you run. Same as with cars.
For controlling 300 lb of body and 40lb of equipment coming down a mountain at 30+ mph with sharp curves and rough roads, I trust the 28s. More grip yields better braking and handling. The larger volume of air also has slightly more heat capacity (for those with rim brakes). I will gladly sacrifice the extra couple watts we would have to generate to run the 28s versus a 23/25. I mean, ours are pumped to 120 psi F&R, so it's not like running MTB tires or something.
PS - For those thinking that running a smaller tire up front, might be a way to cut rolling resistance and drag, consider that the weight distribution for tandem teams is often close to 50/50.
See this excellent Excel spreadsheet:
https://tandem-fahren.de/Mitglieder/C...stribution.xls
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great link to the weight distribution spreadsheet, thanks.
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Used the Attack / Force on my single
Does anyone run paired, "optimized" front/rear tires like https://www.schwalbetires.com/node/1382 Stelvio Front & Rear HS 347 ?
(Continental has a similar concept with their "Attack/Force" 22mm/24mm pairs)
To quote Schwalbe, "Different rubber compounds specially developed and optimized for front and rear wheels. Maximum cornering grip and stopping power for the FRONT wheel. Energy loss minimized on the REAR wheel."
Bike Tires Direct has these for a very attractive price for a pair right now.
(Continental has a similar concept with their "Attack/Force" 22mm/24mm pairs)
To quote Schwalbe, "Different rubber compounds specially developed and optimized for front and rear wheels. Maximum cornering grip and stopping power for the FRONT wheel. Energy loss minimized on the REAR wheel."
Bike Tires Direct has these for a very attractive price for a pair right now.