TandemGeek

Horsepucky...

While it's true that aluminum cassette carriers are routinely buggered-up by loose sprockets, Shimano exacerbated the condition with it's 10 speed cassettes, ostensibly as part of their on-going efforts to lock consumers into Shimano components via proprietary and non-standard specifications.

For some inexplicable reasons known only to Shimano, they (a) reduced the number of sprockets mounted to carriers that distribute loads over the hub carrier splines, (b) eliminated 40% of the spline contact surface on their previously loose 12t - 16t sprockets (which was bad enough), but (c) left the 17t & 19t sprockets loose with 40% less contact surface.



Shame on me for not doing enough homework before buying a Shimano 10 speed Ultegra cassette, as had I done that I would have most like bought a different brand of 10 speed cassettes. As it is, I now must drop $100 on a replacement cassette carrier for our Topolino wheelset AND will probably have to drop more $$ on a new cassette from someone like SRAM or IRD that won't mangle Topolino's hard-anodized but still wimpy carrier body.

andr0id

Well, I kind of get your point and I completely agree that the high spline 7800/7801 hub was a real loser... But is there really an industry standard specification for the free hub/cassette interface?

I mean, it's called Shimano compatible, so by definition, if it doesn't fit or work with *real* Shimano parts, it's *not* Shimano compatible, it's something else. I don't think they're trying to lock you into anything. If IRD, SRAM and all the other people that make wheels and hubs nowadays wanted to truly create an industry standard and not just follow Shimano, I don't think anybody would stop them. I just don't think that anybody would buy their stuff either.

I would make the same argument for "Campy compatible" stuff as well. If you claim to make a Campy compatible cassette, but it won't work on a Campy hub, or if you make a Campy compatible hub, but a Campy cassette damages it, then Campy would not be to blame either.

And I don't understand your issue with the Ultegra FH-6600 hub. It is a low spline steel body so any 9/10 cassette should work on it.

merlin55

the solution is to get a 9/10 speed steel cassette body, or get a 10speed only alloy cassette body which has taller splines which are less prone to notching

TandemGeek

Hmmmm. Maybe.

Actually, the real solution is to rid myself of the last two Shimano components that exist in our stable: cassettes and chains.

Seriously though, I would LOVE to hear the honest truth behind why Shimano removed the three spline teeth from it's individual cogs. If there was any technical merit beyond delivering a coup de grāce to the firms that were already using aluminum cassette carriers to coincide with Shimano's introduction of it's own aluminum cassette carrier with a new spline pattern (albeit a short-lived one), I'd be impressed.

It seems pretty clear to me that Shimano knew many consumers would want to upgrade their bikes to Shimano's new 10 speed equipment and this presented an opportunity for Shimano to smack around the boutique wheelset and hub builders vis-a-vis messing with the consumer in an effort to drive consumers back to Shimano integrated wheelsets and / or hubs.

That's the rub.... What I perceive to be Shimano's marketing methods and willingness to inflict collateral damage to the consumer as a way of driving them to their products. I'm just one of those weirdo's who likes to be treated as an educated consumer who will compare products based on features and factual data, not fed a line or subtly locked into a proprietary standard that may or may not be to my benefit.

mrfish

Agree TG on ridding yourself of those pesky hubs. Campag's grease system used to be a favourite for UK rainy weather.

Regarding the Shimano chains I recently got a 7900 groupset and the chain link is a work of art. Apart from dodging Sram and Wipperman patents it has the major advantage that one link carries both pins so that when you come to fit the chain it's held by the one link. Similarly when take it apart you don't have to grab the whole thing as the two side plates fly apart.

TandemGeek

I don't either... since I don't have any Shimano hubs. I do have many, many Shimano Cassettes that work just fine on hubs from Phil Wood, White Industries, Chris King, Rolf (White Ind), Topolino... with the exception of one: that weird and klugged-up 10 speed cassette with the un-pinned 17t & 19t sprockets that are missing three teeth on all of the loose cogs. Still waiting for a technical explanation from anyone who's willing to take a shot at it.

See above.

twocicle

I didn't notice it mentioned above so I'll update this thread... the American Classic Shimano cassette clips do NOT fit the Ultegra 10 speed cassette, at least without some aftermarket adjustment. I contacted American Classic to confirm - they do not make a set of Ultegra 10 speed clips.

The problem is that the Ultegra clips are too tall for the cassette (the DuraAce clips are too short) and they stick out above the top sprocket instead of flush. The fix is to take each tall clip and grind the height down to the point where it sits flush with the top sprocket. Others in this forum have recommended this fix and it is pretty much the only way to aleviate the Ultegra "missing spline" gouging.

TandemGeek

Did they discontinue them? Whatever they sold me -- I haven't bother to go and check my documentation -- slipped right in to the Ultegra 10 speed cassette without any trouble and worked just fine.