Tandem Handling
 

I am going on a 2800-ish mile ride this summer and am doing it on a motorized tandem. I intend on splitting the ride between the meat motor and the gas motor.

While I am riding a tandem, there will only be the captain. The strokers bars and seat will be removed, and the crank modified to accept the gas engines power. The only reason for the tandem is because it gives me the load-carrying length, or more, of a Free Radical from xtracycle, and still leaves room for the engine, without the risk of 3rd degree burns from a hot exhaust pipe. Ouch!

I need defensive riding tips, evasive maneuvering tips, specific to a tandem. On a road or mountain bike, I can pretty much put it where I need it when I need it. But this tandem, because of its length, is much slower to respond in my opinion. I can not tell yet where the back wheel really is, and if I cant tell where my bike is, its hard to know where to put it!

So, braking, fast lane changes, like to avoid a cage door, hitting sand unexpectedly, tires locking up on unseen wet or gravel or sand over the road, how to ride out of a blowout at 30mph going downhill, and any other situations u can come up with that might need special skills to handle on a tandem. What changes to my riding style are needed to safely ride this rig?

Thanks

Are we talking about a motorized version of this, being ridden by a single rider?

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...1&d=1276092964

If so, I think the answer is prayer.

Defensive riding is your big thing, and I'll make a few suggestions:
1) Hog the road. DO NOT attempt to hug the white line on the right. Cars will not give you enough room, and will try to pass you without pulling over to the left. You should ride 18-40 inches from the white line, or about 1/3 of the way into the lane. Don't get into the center of the lane either, as drivers will mistake you for a motorcyclist and not expect that they need to slow down for you. (Sounds dumb, I know, but some drivers drive with very few active brain cells.) There are lots of studies to back this up, but too many cyclists still think hugging the right line is safest. It isn't. People may occasionally get offended that you are hogging the road, but a driver who is offended is a driver who saw you. I'll take an annoyed driver who saw me over a spaced-out cell phone talker who never saw me as they passed me with their mirror 2 inches from our handlebars ANYDAY.
2) Make eye contact with drivers at intersections BEFORE you assume they aren't going to drive out in front of you. This is much easier on a tandem, since people tend to stare at tandems anyway. Assume that any driver who hasn't given you eye contact is completely oblivious to your presence.
3) In conjunction with #2, train your stoker to wave to cars that you are passing. It helps get eye contact, and increases the probability they will see you.

Suggestion:
Haul a one-wheel Bob-style trailer behind your mt. bike.
Have ridden tandem extensively for over 3 decades. Do not recommend what you are trying to accomplish.
It's foolhardy . . .
However lets us know how far you get before call it quits.

Good advice SvdSinner with one caveat. Drivers who make eye contact also assume that you are giving them the right-of-way. The only way to be safe in this situation is to have someone wave. Otherwise, it's safe to assume that the car will not wait for the cyclist to cross the intersection. I've too often made eye contact with a motorist while riding a motorcycle only to then have them move in my direction at a rapid rate.

I think you've already identified the things that you need to consider, which is half of the battle. Experience gained riding the tandem is the other half, assuming that your tandem is suitable for the task at hand, e.g., frame/fork stability, wheel durability, adequate brakes, tires, gearing, and proper loading / weight distribution of any luggage.

You might try to make contact with Paul Parry in the UK who did a 5,600 solo tandem fund raising tour from Oslo, Norway to Bee, Nebraska back in 2004 to see what suggestions / tips he might have.

Yup merlinextraligh, thats my tandem before the overhaul. Right now it is down to the frame, getting any welds I dont like taken care of and then repainted. Have new bearings and cups for the cranks and bearings for the wheels, going tomorrow for the headset bearings and cups. Synthetic grease for them all (it's all I buy for working on cars) It has 36 spoke wheels, and I am deciding what I am going to do for brakes still. For training, I'll ride unloaded with the front center-pull brake I got off a 35 year old schwinn, and seeing if my local bike shop can get the lining for the rear band brake.

Why do u say "prayer"? I cant see any reason why this bike cant be a safe reliable ride for my trip, but I sure am open to anyones insight.

One, the overall build quality of that thing doesn't look up to riding 2800 miles. Two, is that the original fork? Something about the rake/trail doesn't look right. Three, I don't think that bike was intended to be ridden at speeds that you can develop with it motorized, or descending with a load. Four, I can't begin to imagine how it s going to handle, without a stoker, but with the dead weight of a motor, and a load.

It sounds like you must be fairly handy, so with some work you may be able to McGiver that bike through an extended tour, but it wouldn't be my choice for setting out on one.

As Zona suggests, it would be a lot more practical to pull a bob trailer behind a single bike.

Really? You can't see why this bike can't be safe and reliable?

This is such a hare-brained idea that it's not worth responding to....except I couldn't help it :lol:

I gotta tell ya, folks have ridden long and hard miles on bikes of similar or lesser quality over the past 100 years.

The frame looks to be solid, albeit heavy... which is typical of older bikes you'll find all around the world still being ridden for daily transportation.

And, given all of the restoration work described by the OP, the important stuff appears to be getting taken care of.

Thanks for the legit concerns merlinextraligh.
Build quality is lacking for sure, which is why it is getting the once over for any braze or weld points that dont look good to me.
I am sure that isn't the original fork. It's an old mountain bike fork I think. I am thinking about switching it out for an old road bike fork and see how I like the handeling compared to this one.
As for speeds, It will be geared for 25mph when the engine hits the governor. I am in no rush. A major part of my trip is the journey itself, so 25 is plenty. And geared for 25, it should leave me plenty of power to motor up the mountain at 20mph at least.
With the engine, and a single bike, no matter the style, my thighs are wayyyyy to close to the 600 degree exhaust, and i aint superman. There is no way I am making 100 miles a day on my legs alone. I need that motor. And lights, and a reserve battery to keep the gps, cell phone, and laptop charged. And lights for the bike, and lights in the tent, and the electric cooled bottle so I can enjoy some cold iced tea at the end of the day! I need the space, and a single just cant do it.
And the handling problems you mention with dead weight, is exactly why I started this thread. To learn what I dont know about how it would handle, and learn how to work with it.

Yeah, it isn't my choice really either, and with an extra $1500 handy, I would indeed make other decisions for the rig I ride. But, it is what I have to work with :)

swc7916, thanks for that ever-so-insightful and productive contribution to this thread. Maybe next time you could try harder to help not responding.

I think a problem you'll have, as you may even already be encountering, is that with a motorized bicycle you'll be neither fish nor fowl, that is, neither bicycle nor motorcycle. There is no community of hybrid motorized bicycle tourers for you to turn to for advice prior to departing, nor succor once underway. In the likely event your contraption ends up disabled and on the side of the road, cyclists will see the motor and ride on by without an inquiry such as "You good?".

If you ditch the motor, attach a trailer to that Schwinn tourer what you've got, then you are in business as a tourer. You'll lose the power from the motor, but you'll gain a community.

You're being very charitable but you're right - it can be done. People have done a lot crazier stuff and lived to tell about it. However, even with the work he plans to do on this bike, I would not consider speeds higher than about 12-15 mph - certainly not 30 mph descents.

You're welcome :)

To some degree you are spot on Ritterview. There is a micro niche of community of motorized bicyclists that I am connected with, and will be planning my route with some consideration for where that community is located along my path. I am keeping things as simple as possible, using a very high quality Tecumesh engine, not the modern chinese 2 strokes that seem to be all the rage today. Between simplicity and quality where is matters most, I expect that any breakdowns will be both minor and rare. *knocks on formica, tosses salt over left shoulder and bites dogs ear for luck* The beauty of my rig is the fact that I am not limited to one form of propulsion. As long as there is air in my tires, I will be able to go, even up the mountain - tho I am NOT wanting that leg to be sans gasoline!

I traded the tourer for the tandem, so I am all in on this! I hope that my rig will be unique enough, my journey interesting enough, that the frankenstien aspect will be welcomed by those I come across as I ride :)

Thank you Tandemgeek.

So said some of the people who attempted baloon rides on lawn chairs, though your endeavour seems more feasible. Good luck.

lol Thanks Xanti! I didnt consider a balloon for long. Getting up the mountain would be way easier, but the steering is really lethargic!

I've got to admire the whole Don Quixotesque aspect of the plan. If you really thought this was a great idea, I'd definitely be more full of ridicule. But the spirt of taking what you've got and making it work within your own parameters has turned me into a fan. Good luck!

Just how powerful is this engine? Anything over about 1hp is no longer considered a bicycle and there are a lot more stringent requirements for being on the road. However, I'm sure that this won't stop you.

Actually it's worse than that. The rules of whether it's legal on the road will vary from state to state. As far as I know it is not legal in NY. I wouldn't begin to conceive of a reason why, but electric assist bikes aren't, and I'd have to guess this is in the same category. As for whether anyone would stop you, I have no idea.

So you are in no rush, want to relish the journey, but need the motor to do 25 mph and to make 100 miles a day.

How about ditching the motor, be a real cyclist, find out that you start out your journey with not that many miles per day, but progress and discover that with your 'legs alone' you can do more miles than you ever thought, and find yourself as part of the larger community of cycling tourers, rather than choking these with your noisome motor's fumes as you zip by them at 25 mph?

This sounds like a great adventure.

1. Is the frame whippy? Will it be able to develop oscillations under certain conditions? This is something you wouldn't worry about on most singles.

2. How are you carrying gear? Rack, panniers, bag over the top tube, etc? What will the front/rear weight distribution be?

3. Is the rear brake up to the job? That's your first line of defense if the engine goes nuts. Are parts readily available? I'm assuming the engine won't provide any engine braking.

The concept of using the longer wheelbase for this setup makes a lot of sense, as long as the weight is reasonably balanced. I wonder about the durability of the wheels and rear hub. 25mph sounds suicidal. Will it have enough power to climb the hills? That would be a huge load to pedal up a mountain.
Be sure to bring your insurance card!!!

Careful with that one. I'm guessing there are as many different types of 'real cyclists' as there are different types of cycles, to include electric and gas-motor assisted / powered bicycles. Sadly, as with any large and diverse community, tribal mentality often times creates more barriers than it does bridges.

Motor-powered bicycles have been around since 1885 when Gottlieb Daimler was purportedly the first to mate a small engine to a bicycle. Yes, they're technically and in most cases legally classified as mopeds, but to a motorist anyone on anything that looks like a bicycle is a cyclist.

As anyone who has seen a Whizzer can attest, it sure looks more like a bicycle (ney, a tandem bicycle) than it does a motorcycle.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/163/3...473b87.jpg?v=0

Bottom Line: To each their own... Ride what you like and like what you ride.

Well Ritterview, while I am not in any rush, I do have a purpose to the trip in addition to the journey, and do not have unlimited time. I will be thrilled if I can make 100 miles a day on my legs alone, and on the days I can, that little 2 stroke will sit cold, laughing at me for doubting myself. But for the days that my legs revolt after 50, I still have a great way to hit my daily mark. And, if something comes up that takes extra time, or makes me want to hit a checkpoint early, I have more choices with an engine onboard.

As for being a "real cyclist", say what u will, but the simple fact is that an engine, as a secondary propulsion source, gives me options that you mere meat-motor only cyclists can never have. I will hit 100 miles per day, and enjoy the journey, and have a much much lower carbon footprint than any other form of transportation available. I know there r those who will throw a little engine onto a bike, start her up, and never turn the pedals. Those people bug me. Go buy a freakin scooter and stop confusing the issue. I am building a motor ASSISTED bike. NOT a motor bike. If that makes me not a "real-cyclist" then don't bother to wave as u ride by.

I am concerned about both the noise and the pollution of my rig. Since the subject came up, what do you commute in? Get groceries in? Visit friends in? If you are going to look so dimmly at me, then the answer better be a vehicle with an unloaded weight of under 40lbs my friend! I just KNOW you don't drive a cage to some destination and then take your bicycle down from the roof or rear rack to ride do you, Sir Cyclist?

There was a time when I routinely did 21mph on my own power, on a junky road bike. Put 1100 miles on it in a summer, and it was much less appropriate for such duty than this tandem is. So, 25 on the motor does not seem unreasonable to me as a maximum. I only need 12 to keep the daily goals, so the extra speed will be reserved for keeping the schedule if I have problems and need to catch up. The motto for this journey is hope for the best but plan for the worst.