rdtompki

Took a leisurely club ride this morning and while in the midst of a line of singles (not a paceline) about 5 back from the front, the lead rider suddenly slowed inexplicably. I had about 4' between my front wheel and the next wheel, but still had to brake hard. Got a pretty good thump from the gnat behind. He didn't go down, but a few riders back someone went down without injury. I thought the single had hit my wheel, but he hit my disc and I now have a slight wobble which I can "easily" straighten.

BTW, No one to my knowledge fessed up to causing the chain reaction. I'll be more cautious in the future, but no accounting for someone on your rear bumper.

zonatandem

decal3.jpegAlways ride just far enough out so you have a quickie escape route if possible, so you can swerve left/right.
Have had a few wheelsuckers that have nudged/zapped our rear tire; us being the heavier/longer, we had no ill effects.
Lesson learned . . .
Pewdal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

rdtompki

Rudy,
I had plenty of time to maneuver, but zero shoulder on the right, narrow two-lane road and not enough time to check 6 for cars. My bad.

Bill G

Another Forum member in another post about drafting & pace lines said I was making a Mole Hill into a Mountain over this very subject but what happened to you proves my point. I do not ride in pace lines and ask others not to draft off me because I do not want my Tandem damaged nor do I want to be in a crash due to other riders mistakes in a pace line or a drafting situation. I am glad you did not wreck and the damage was minimal to your Tandem. Some will flame me for thinking like this and say that's part of the riding experience and that's OK with me.

Ride Safe,
Bill G

2frmMI

I believe that "Tandem Whoopass" is a benefit to cycling, and should be embraced. The "Tandem Motive Force" is impressive when properly employed. That proper employment is well known to cognizant singles: catch 'em on the descents and let 'em have space on the climbs. When the route flattens out, you will reap the reward! In a pace line, just let the tandems lead. Simple rule: Whoopass in a can!

Homeyba

That would be me and this doesn't prove anything. It's a very poor correlation. All it proves is stuff does happen and that rdtomptk got bumped with no major damage happening. I've been riding for years, between 6k and 10k miles per year and can count on less than one hand the number of times I've been rear-ended and I've had no damage to any of my bikes nor have I gone down. Does that prove anything??? I wouldn't say you're wrong that if you aren't comfortable with it don't do it. You're spot on, I think I said as much. On the other hand IMHO, you're still making a mountain out of a mole hill.

unterhausen

I've been bumped a number of times while racing without problems -- for me. The person in back pays the price. The only exception to that rule is when I ran into my friend John's rear wheel when we were 10, he got a flat. Never did understand that one.

I understand people that don't want to be drafted or will not draft, that's their choice.

conspiratemus1

Rick, you did the right thing not to swerve when you couldn't be sure you had clearance. Don't *ever* get hit by a car.

I hope the rest of this thread discusses ways of avoiding or mitigating crashes when turbulence happens in pacelines or other closed-up riding formations, rather than "Just say No." Yes, abstience is 100% effective in preventing paceline crashes, just as it is for STDs, but for many of us it leaves that little empty feeling which saying "Yes!!!" fills so nicely.

Bill G

It does prove my point and your still intitled to your IMHO... I myself have also been riding now for right at 29 years. I see guys get there bikes damaged all the time from stuff like this so there is validity to what I am saying. I am not telling anyone to buy into my way of thinking here, we just think diffrently about this and that's ok. Maybe your making a Mole Hill into a Mountain about my opinion just because for what ever reason it does not settle well with you and believe it or not I am way OK with that... You can do it and will continue to avoid it... Enough said..you maid your point please move on.

Have a Great One & Ride Safe,
Bill G

rdtompki

I'm not very experienced with pacelines, but don't, in principle, have a problem being drafted although singles who need to draft an SCT (Senior Citizen Tandem) may be a bit sketchy. I'm disappointed that reasonably experienced group riders don't have enough sense to allow adequate room for unexpected behavior when paceline behavior is not expected. 10 minutes prior after pulling out of a parking lot the leader, different from the lead bike during the minor incident, stop relatively suddenly I presume to check something on their bike; everyone stopped, but common sense would say check for traffic and pull out of line or pull ahead and give adequate warning.

I'd only ride in the middle of a true paceline in a group of tandems, the accordion effect with singles is too hard to deal with. If they are weak singles they can draft; I'll hang at the back behind a line of strong singles.

B. Carfree

Thanks, I needed that just now.

DCwom

Sorry about the thread hijack, but where did you get that tandem decal at?

merlinextraligh

To th extent you can draw a conclusion from a sample of one, the Op's accident is consistent with the point that the following riders are the one's likely to go down, if anyone, and the rider in front is unlikely to be crashed from behind.

It would also tend to indicate that the likelyhood of severe damage to the bike is pretty low, given that all that happened here was a slight bend to a disc.

merlinextraligh

It really isn't that hard with some practice. Given the added momentum of the tandem, you need to anticipate surges, and slowing moreso than with a single bike, but with some anticipation, and some patience in closing gaps it gets to the point that you can do it pretty seemlessly.

Yesterday, we did a group ride with about 50 bikes in the lead group, and sustained efforts in the high 20's, low 30's. 3 tandems in the group rotating through, and no issues.

cornucopia72

To us, drafting and pulling is a big part road cycling. There is no doubt in our mind that riding in a group is more fun and that we get e better workout taking turns at the front. Maybe it is our competitive and social nature but while riding with a group the minutes and the miles fly by. Tandems and experienced singles are very easy to draft from. Still, it irritates us when singles, but also some tandems, after they sucked our wheel for several miles take a turn at the front and sprint like they were aproaching the finish line only to fade a few hundred feet later; we usually let them go ahead and catch them later...

Bent In El Paso

Interesting discussion. My wife and I are new to the whole tandem thing. I have ridden for several years now on a "1/2" bike very often in pace lines. On the tandem, I am finding pace lines to be much more challenging, especially when the other riders do not maintain a very steady speed. I have found the tandem, by nature, is a very steady beast. It does not accelerate nor decelerate as quickly as the singles in a pace line. When I am riding with other experienced and steady riders, it is very easy. With less experienced riders, I prefer to either be in front or not in the pace line at all.

We did a century on Saturday with some beginner riders in our local club. We spent most of the ride in front helping these newbies by giving them a pull. While they have been educated in proper paceline etiquette, they just have not developed the skills yet, especially on long rides where fatigue can play a part. The best part of the day was the last 20 miles where we stayed back and pulled a rider at about 12 mph to help her finish her first century ride.

Bottom line, we have decided to pick and choose when we want to be a part of a paceline an when we don't.

specbill

Rick, glad nothing worse than a bent rotor came out of that deal.

This thread just re-enforces what we already know, and that is we should only ride in situations where we find the right level of 'risk to fun' percentages that suit our own values and abilities. Generally, as the years have gone by, I’ve been reducing the risk factor more and more while not giving up near as much on the fun side.

For me, that balancing point does vary a significant amount depending on if I'm on my single or piloting our Tandems. I absolutely won't risk my spouse on our tandem to the same degree that I will myself on a single. ……… like most of us, I've had some riding “”experiences"” over the years that I don't want a loved one to ever have to go through so I take down the risk factor considerably when riding together.

Given all of that, while on the Tandem, we do enjoy riding in groups and in pace lines because it is almost always a lot of fun with the right group. I do prefer smaller groups with fewer variables and we carefully pick whom we choose to ride around. We’ll quickly bail on a group that shows signals that raise my concerns or if the conditions grow unpredictable for any reason.

The way I look at it is this: Life is short, and regardless of how much time we have, it is far more preferable to be riding than mending, so I don’t see much downside to being conservative in non-competitive cycling activities.

Bill J.

zonatandem

DCwom: for the tandem decal . . .
Contact Charlie @ Draftmaster.com or Atoc.com
Pedal on TWOgethert!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

PMK

As already mentioned in the other topic, it may not be a bad idea to give the stoker some idea of what your intentions may be in certain situations. This of course is assuming there is time for some type of control to minimize damage or injury.

I'm certain we will still ride pretty much as before, staying as much aware of our surroundings, and as we've always done, give room when needed to those that ride less consistently.

Glad you two rode it out with minor damage.

I'm hoping our little incident cleared the slate for a short while. Hopefully the same works for others.

PK

TandemGeek

Rudy:

If you're going to go to the trouble of using a photo of a pre-Atoc decal on the back of my Suburban that someone lifted from my Decal info website or Blog, you might want to at least refer folks back to my Decal info website.

That's just low-rent....

https://www.thetandemlink.com/Decals/Decalinfo.html

More on the history of this particular tandem decal design can be found in a June 19th Blog entry that I posted in conjunction with creating an short "how to apply" video.

https://tandemgeek.wordpress.com/2010...rs-aka-decals/

Sorry for the hi-jack; this just really torqued my gord...