A slow spinning gyroscope
 

Do any of you pilots (helmsman) feel like you are sometimes steering a slow spinning gyroscope, even at higher speeds. I did when we had our Double Vision recumbent w/ IPS. Sometimes I felt like I was really working to manage control of the bike. After a couple of days in the mountains at this year's CNC I felt worn out not only from the climbing, shifting and braking (and the cold rain), but also from steering. I attributed it to the IPS causing us to be OOP. Yesterday, during our second ride on our Santana Team AL I noticed the same thing. We are IP. I'm going to assume that it occurs when my stoker is applying more power to the pedals than I am at that moment. Before I tell her to throttle back a bit ( I don't want to spoil a good thing) I just try to increase my power to match hers. I wondered if anyone else has experienced this. I know it will be remedied with practice and experience but I was just wondering if I was accurately feeling and describing what others have felt. Thanks.

Have never felt that even riding with various stokers on various tandems in over 35 years of tandeming.

The one time I noticed any gyro effect was on a test ride of a demo off road tandem.

The bike had 29r wheels and really big heavy tires. To me it took away some of the liveliness of the handling.

Outside that, no, never.

PK

Sounds like some stoker upper body movement. Maybe try a higher cadence or have your stoker concentrate on a quiet upper body.

A death grip on the bars at the front will also fatigue you and may also introduce weaving - relax as much as you can.

No, never. Sounds like maybe you don't have a lot of tandem miles yet? Or maybe you ride your single a lot more than your tandem? Tandems do steer differently. After exclusively tandeming for a long time, when I get on my single I'm all over the place, way oversteering. On the tandem, relax and when you are steering a line, don't try to correct direction quickly, like you would on a single. Instead, think of making its average advance vector equal the direction in which you want to go. Just slow it all down and don't worry about small, temporary changes in direction. After 1000 miles, you'll be able to ride it right down the fog line, completely relaxed.

You probably are feeling your stoker. Maybe she bobs a little. Make sure you are pedaling a round stroke and encourage her to follow your pedals (IP).

Questions:

1. What's your average cadence / crank RPM? 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's???
2. Does your stoker try to look around you as you ride? (You may have to ask a fellow cyclist with whom you ride about that one)
3. Does the sensation go away when you're coasting?

The moving stoker seems to be coming up frequently.

We had a similar discussion with a couple at the recent STR. Captain wondered how to keep the bike more stable. Without hesitation my stoker asked the other stoker, "do you look around his shoulder", the answer was some form of yes.

My advice to the other captain was ask her not to do that. I believe my stoker explained it to the other stoker and gave advice of look without leaning.

Not to pick on you CFBoy, but this sounds pretty intense from your post.

Instead, think of making its average advance vector equal the direction in which you want to go.

I just pedal, steer and do what I'm told, if I'm doing that thing you mention, I want to get paid more...

PK

Engineers, yeeesh.

Probably work for Boeing on some form of advanced composites project too...

PK

More likely just a humble craftsman who's eschewed the corporate world. Well . . . maybe not that humble.

Okay. I read all of the posts before our 25 mile ride with two of my solo friends on Saturday morning. All of your suggestions were helpful and we had our best ride yet. In fact, we were pulling into the wind (@ about 22 mph) and held-on at the back with a tail wind (@ 24+ mph). The suggestions regarding relaxation were probably the most effective. Whenever we felt like we were weaving I reminded my stoker (and myself) to relax. I think the net effect of that was to miniimize her micro-balancing and my micro- steering.
We typically spin at between 80-90 rpm and weaving never happened during coasting. Initially, during our first couple of rides, stoker was probably moving around more than neccessary which required more of the micro balancing and steering mentioned above. Also, we both read the article written by one of you for a magizine, the link to which was posted in another thread. Unfortunately I can't find that thread now. Anyway, it was a story about this mtb rider who had some injuries and started tandem riding. He chronicled the evolution of going from newbie to experiecing the "team effect" and then the"tandem team effect". That article was really helpful to both of us.

Relaxing, making sure your stoker isn't trying to steer or control the bike, and very importantly, making sure your stoker remains on a parallel plane with the frame of the bike. When a more experienced captain told my wife this, our balance problems ceased. If there's any leaning to be done, you do it, not her. My wife and I aren't particularly strong or particularly fast (except downhill), but we're a good working team. When I need power from her (usually on a short steep uphill) I let her know and she's right there to do her part. Having said that, there hasn't been a hill that we couldn't eventually get up or a ride we couldn't finish. When Zona says "twogether" he's right in so many ways.