TheHen

I guess my team is really the odd bird here. (Small captain (5'6" 130#) large stoker (6'2"195#), OOP). I sometimes stand for part of steep climbs, but my stoker stays seated almost all the time. (It looks funny to have both riders out of the saddle OOP, but it is easy enough to do.) Our strategy is for him to give it his all and risk blowing up while I climb at a more measured pace. If he is going to blow, we back off and I sort of take control while he regains his legs/lungs. Since he doesn't have to control the bike, it is easier for him to focus his efforts and energy on keeping his output up.

Both of us would rather climb than descend. I like that "stoker descent aversion" phrase as well. I used to be the one calling for more drag brake on descents (stoker controls the drag brake), but this past year my stoker has developed a preference for slower descent speeds. Maybe he just got tired of losing arguments.

waynesulak

Hey I thought the stoker was always right!

Chris_W

Our front shifting is helped by the fact that we're using Campy shifters (although with a Shimano FD and SRAM RD), which gives me more control over the FD. Plus, the middle and outer rings are upper-level Shimano models (Ultegra 6603 and Dura Ace 7800, respectively) and so are stiff with good shifting ramps, which helps a lot (and shows just how poor the FSA rings that came stock on the Gossamer crankset are). Because of these factors, neither shift (small to middle or middle to big ring) is a problem for us. We also have a Chain Catcher to make sure that the middle to small ring shift goes smoothly and without losing the chain.

I run a 42-26 combo on my single commuter and touring bike sometimes, but that is too big of a leap to make on the tandem, which is why our middle ring is a 39. I would also say that 42-28 is pushing the limits of what is ideal. When considering what size jumps between rings will work well, think about percentage differences when considering how much the shift will change your cadence, and think about tooth count differences when thinking about derailleur capacity.

If you do decide to switch your middle ring to a 39 to allow you to run a smaller inner ring, then also consider changing your front derailleur. Shimano's triple FDs are either designed for a 13-14 tooth difference between the middle and big rings (this is true for models: Ultegra 6603, Ultegra 6703, Dura Ace 7803, Dura Ace 7703) or for 10-11 tooth differences (most other models). The chain will not line up with the shift ramps on the derailleur if the wrong version is used with the wrong ring combination (it can be made to work, but it is far from ideal). The size of the inner ring is not really important in this regard, most models of FD will perform similarly. The fact that you currently have 53-42-30 rings suggests that you have a 9-speed chain; if that is the case and you want a 13-tooth big-middle difference then the Dura Ace 7703 is the only derailleur that is designed for that with a 9-speed chain, but it is very hard to find one of those now; you could use one of the 10-speed models I listed above, but you will have more chain rub due to the narrower cage width on the 10-speed FDs; the other option would be to also change the big ring at the same time to a 50-tooth version (you would then have FD models 6503, 5503, 4503, 4403 as options for that ring ring combo with a 9-speed setup; the 4503 probably now being the easiest of those to obtain).

Team Fab

One thing that my wife and i do is to alternate standing on the long climbs. I'll sit while she stands and vice versa.

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm running a 6603 FD with 9-speed on our 26-39-52 rings. Our middle-big shift is perfect. The only shift we have trouble with is that 26-39. The most reliable middle ring that I've tried is the Shimano Ultegra. FSA is POS for sure. If you can make the 26-39 shift on a steep grade you have much better equipment than I do, that's for sure.

My stoker closes her eyes at 42 mph. No problem.

ambient

We run 54-42-28 and 11-28, 10 speed Ultegra triple fd and rd. It shifts great with FSA ramped and pinned big and middle rings. These are pretty big jumps in gearing but it shifts fine.
I still call out front shifts but not rear shifts and have had no problems since I put the FSA rings on.
I can't cross chain the 28 with the 11 or the 12 in the rear without the derailer pulleys rubbing. I installed a K-edge just for confidence in a panic downshift.
We are fairly new to tandeming. Less than 2000 mi for the captain, without doing anything close to the epic climbs mentioned here. We are still working on our standing technique. Our longest climb was Jubilee/Salsberry out of Death Valley and that was done in the 42.

colotandem

This is what we do too. Especially on the long sustained climbs. It gives you a nice stretch without really blowing yourself up. Grades around here are not super steep, mostly around 6-8% with short steeper sections.

As Merlinextraligh says, it's mostly about power to weight ratio. So frequent climbing is key b/c it will make you stronger AND you'll likely shed a few lbs (those are the cheapest ones to get rid of - unlike the new wheel set or carbon stoker stem)!

TheHen

Oh no. We have a democracy. Each X chromosome gets a vote.

dstke

Hi,

My wife and I are heading to Europe this summer and plan to ride around the Alps: From Prague down to Austria, west through Austria and Switzerland, down to Bourg St. Maurice, east through Italy and back up into Austria. Concern I have is whether we'll be able to do all the climbs on our Tandem with a trailer. Any thoughts? /Doug

Machka 

Have you ridden up some relatively long, steep hills with your tandem with a trailer yet? How did that go?

If you haven't climbed with the tandem much, and especially if you haven't climbed towing a full trailer, I'd suggest you get out there and do it as soon as possible.

I find climbing with single bicycle and climbing with the tandem to be two very different experiences. For example, we did the 7 Peaks Alpine Ascent Challenge here this past summer on our singles. It was tough for me on my single, but I did a lot better than I ever imagined I would. However, there's no way I would have wanted to try that on the tandem.

joe@vwvortex

Hmm - i've run nothing but FSA rings - 30-42-54 at first then 28-42-54 and now 26-39-53 - the first two combos were with a 9 speed 11-34 rear cluster and an XTR, then a DiVinci modified X9 and the latter with our 11-29 Campy 10 Record Long cage setup. That's with an older Dura Ace FD and Campy Record Ergo 10 shifters - at first with a 9 speed Shimano chain and now with a 10 speed Campy chain. No problem shifting any of the rings - ever. Crisp quick clean shifts every time.

Carbonfiberboy 

The chain-lifter pins broke off our FSA 39T in about 2000 miles, and it never shifted well even when new. Those same pins on the 52T stick out too far and, when new, kept us from using the middle ring with our top two cogs, although they've now worn enough that we're only locked out of the top cog. 9-speed Ultegra chain. So maybe I'll be replacing the big ring soon, too.

I never had any trouble with the Race Face which was OEM, I just didn't like the crank lengths and ring sizes I had. I switched to the FSAs because I wanted to try the Gates setup. Which was a complete failure for us anyway. The FSA cranks themselves are OK, just the bearings only lasted one year and the middle ring only a few months. I had our LBS R&R the bearings, but when these go I'm switching to Phil Wood bearings.

We may be harder on our equipment than some. We do group rides in our PNW hills year-round, so the bike sometimes looks like we've been cyclocross racing it.

merlinextraligh

We rode the 70 mile route of the Horrible Hundred this weekend. Amazingly hilly for Florida, with approximately 4,500 vertical in 70 miles. ( depending on what GPS file you believe.

Made it up Sugarloaf in the middle ring. It's very short, but double digit steep.

ebnelson

We rode the Ward/Lyons loop out of Boulder yesterday. I continue to be underwhelmed by the FSA rings in both up and down shifting. I don't try to shift up front while standing. We stand probably a lot more than most tandem teams. We have the 52/39/30 triple. I have played around withe front derailleur trying to improve the front shifting but still just OK. I had better shifting with the Race Face too, but those are going on the new mtb tandem when it arrives.

PMK

What off-road tandem did you buy?

PK

p2templin

We really stink at hill climbing, and it's going to get worse this summer when we move to Seattle. We're improving steadily, but for now bike+riders=500 pounds. I can stand briefly but she can't. I stand when there's a short hill and I want to maintain some speed over the top, but only if I know I'll have some time to recover.

From a technique perspective, I try to pick the correct ring before getting on the hill, try to manage shifting to keep our cadence in our preferred zone, and manage heart rate to not blow a gasket.

From a technology perspective, we're learning to use our power meters to limit our effort to a power we can sustain for the length of the hill. We've added two of the CycleOps Joule computers, which allow us to review our 30-second peak power, 2-minute, 4-minute, and other increments. This allows us to know our abilities and throttle intelligently on the hills. When we're ready, I hope we'll swap Garmins front/rear, so I can see my HR/power on my Joule and her HR/power on "her" Garmin; likewise, she can see her HR/power on her Joule and my HR/power on "my" Garmin. That'll allow us to coach each other (she starts breathing hard early on some hills which makes me nervous; I can't always look down when steering up a slow hill) and hopefully extend the improvements.

riding_blind

One thing to try. Make sure you know before you hit the bottom of the hill what ring you want to be in. Make sure you are in that ring but don't worry so much about the rear cogs right away. When you hit the bottom of the hill don't immediately shift to the cog you figure you will take the hill in. Keep an Eye on your cadence. Every time it drops below 80 downshift 1 in the rear until you can hold your cadance. This will help you to not over work yourselves while also using the momentum of the tandem as much as possible at the bottom of the hill.

CaptainHaddock

Is that Strava correct? at about the .25 mark, it starts reading 19 - 21 % grade. WTF?!

Ritterview

Its.... twoo!


As did many, we had signed up for the Sequoia Century without really thinking about this stretch. It came as quite a shock. The key was to rest and recover on the mere 11% grade sections, so there would be something extra at >15% to keep from falling over.



This is characteristic of cycling in the Bay Area. You'll be doing a simple little ride, and all of a sudden you find you are at 15%, and in a veritable death struggle. Any team around here with just a double is probably scrutinizing their proposed rides pretty closely.

Rowan

Changing to the smaller front ring early is excellent advice, but I might add that until you do start to climb the slope, it might be a good idea to do a double front and rear shift -- shift to the smaller ring, and shift down a smaller cog or two on the rear. That way you can maintain your cadence without suddenly having to ride with no resistance and slow the speed of the bike until it catches up with your pedals.

rdtompki

We did our first organized ride, the Chico Velo Wildflower 100K, with our 12-36t cassette. The only real climb was a 4.5 mile, 1400' hill, not too much of an average grade, but some steep pitches. The 36t is going to be a lifesaver for us in combination with our 24t chain ring; good for those short 12+% pitches and for a break on sustained longer climbs.

The San Francisco Bay area is full of rides where one minute you're on flat ground, turn a corner and up comes a short neighborhood 15% "bump" to kick you in the butt. Sometimes you've got to shift fast. What I like most about the Campy Ergo shifters is the ability to shift so many cogs up/down in situations like that. From our experience there is nothing worse than getting into the teeth of a pitch in the wrong gear just killing yourself to get to a relative flat.

I've have a vague memory of being young once and can imagine riding a tandem with a double; heck, in my relative youth, say as a 40 y/o, I could run up any of these hills faster than we climb on the tandem, but it's not about how fast you get there, but rather about getting there.

ebnelson

Same as the one you are selling, just smaller size!

Sprout97 

I am way impressed. I've been up Sugarloaf twice on a single. First attempt I stopped twice (lost rpm & couldn't downshift off my middle ring, and 20yds later, I sheared off the back of my Look cleat). Second time (no stops) on my carbon single (compact 10 w/ 12-23 gears), I barely made it up, riding my last gear for the last 100yds.

FYI, Mt. Sugarloaf is the second highest natural point in FL. About 3/4 of a mile @ 18-23% straight up (no switchbacks).

Hermes

We have use 53/39/30 and an 11/28 10sp on the rear. We used to use an 11/34. We did a Santana Mallorca, Spain Tour a couple of years ago and used the 11/28 and most of the time on the climbs we were in the 24. There are some long climbs on Mallorca but in general not real steep. For most of the flat to rolling in the bay area, I prefer an 11/23.

We did the Santana Tour of Tuscany with the 11/28. There was another couple who we met and ultimately rode with most of the tour that showed up with a 53/42 with a 12/25 on the rear. They did fine with the combination other than our cadence was faster than theirs on the climbs. It was not classic gearing but worked for them. We are about the same age.

I do not think there is a right or wrong answer. It is whatever works for the team and experimentation may be worthwhile.

CaptainHaddock

First off, I want to thank you for that clip, I LOVE blazing saddles! I've ridden on the oakland/berkeley side of the bay, but only on singles, so that totally changes my view of the experience. I ride my tandem with my wife on a cross trail in Portland, but that's at a much more pedestrian grade.