Spinergy Tx2 wheelset opinions?
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Please share what Spinergy has changed on the XAeros that Santana first began using last year that makes the TX2 any more tandem specific vs. the Santana spec XAeros beyond rear axle spacing?
Except Spinergy's website lists no dealers in Kansas or Missouri. Good luck actually getting TX2s (or XAeros) from Precision Tandems...
Last edited by TandemGeek; 03-26-12 at 06:33 AM.
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Even as a lightweight team, we've bent a Phil Wood SL axle and the hard annodized aluminum freehubs on our Topolino's was seriously chewed-up by a DuraAce 10 speed cassette in short order.
Stainless steel axles and freehubs tend to be the most durable. For gram counters, you can get away with aluminum freehubs but you need to use cassettes with integrated carriers for the higher tooth count rear sprockets, e.g., XT, XTR, SRAM Red, etc or equip your Shimano 10 speed cassettes with American Classic Speed Clips. Titanium freehubs hold up pretty well following the same guidelines for aluminum freehubs, e.g., carrier-mounted sprockets and/or Shimano 10 speed with American Classic Speed Clips.
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As to why they don't offer a disc version, I've never asked and have no idea if the composite hub end that's molded around the spokes would be any more prone to failure from disc braking loads than they are from drive-side or rim braking loads. I'm sure Rafe Schlanger would be willing to share if anyone cared to ask.
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Sadly, we couldn't make it up to Tandems East's open house this year; it's a great event. It would have been interesting to see a Tx2 pulled apart and compare it to what I saw in the XAeros.
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...As to why they don't offer a disc version, I've never asked and have no idea if the composite hub end that's molded around the spokes would be any more prone to failure from disc braking loads than they are from drive-side or rim braking loads. I'm sure Rafe Schlanger would be willing to share if anyone cared to ask....
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I'll be very interested as teams rack up more miles on these wheels. We ride our tandem almost exclusively and while the daVinci V-22's have been absolutely bullet-proof in 8000+ miles, I would really like to have a spare wheel set. Buying a second set of "boutique" wheels (e.g., Spinergy) and using the V-22's as spares makes sense in a very cyclist-centric, not-financially-sound sort of way. I'm going through the same thought process on cars - our tandem carrier has 280K miles which is making me a bit nervous; of course the dollars involved in a backup plan our greater.
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Speaking for only myself, I tend to install our disc only when I really think we'll need it, as I just prefer riding with caliper brakes. And, when we're doing that type of riding, I also prefer to use our conventional 36h wheels as well: it's a nice pairing, just as the Topolino & Rolfs are with rim brakes.
Last edited by TandemGeek; 03-26-12 at 05:02 PM.
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I'll be very interested as teams rack up more miles on these wheels. We ride our tandem almost exclusively and while the daVinci V-22's have been absolutely bullet-proof in 8000+ miles, I would really like to have a spare wheel set. Buying a second set of "boutique" wheels (e.g., Spinergy) and using the V-22's as spares makes sense in a very cyclist-centric, not-financially-sound sort of way. I'm going through the same thought process on cars - our tandem carrier has 280K miles which is making me a bit nervous; of course the dollars involved in a backup plan our greater.
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#38
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You'd have to call House of Tandems and ask what they're willing to share. They commissioned the product under an exclusive arrangement, and have chosen to wholesale it to Tandems East (HoT will be representing Spinergy at the TE expo next weekend) and daVinci.
Rim braking loads don't load the hub rotationally. Drive loads would, but I would have to think they're an order of magnitude lower than disc loads.
Rim braking loads don't load the hub rotationally. Drive loads would, but I would have to think they're an order of magnitude lower than disc loads.
Great to see this actively discussed, because my wife & I are in the process of accumulating an inventory of parts for a new Calfee build up. At the moment there are maybe 20 shipments of parts in transit, including the actual frame & fork
We are teetering between Rolfs vs Spinergy. The wheels must have rear a disc option as we will be switching back and forth between rim brakes and disc on the rear. The pricing I've sourced between these is really close, so no real issue there. Team weight of < 300lbs and like doing high speed mtn decents.
It is bizarre that Spinergy does not list any tandem specific wheels on their website. Makes you wonder what their service level would be. AFAIK, Santana tends to spec fairly beefy gear, so I doubt those OEM would have feeble Al axles.
We were thinking that the Tx2 wheels may be a "boutique" version of the generic XAeros that House of Tandems is sourcing and maybe the only difference is the personalized shop labels. Just a thought. Want to hear the scoop from you guys what the comparison truly is, so looking forward to that feedback.
As far as performance diffs, I think Mark (TandemGeek) has already discussed key points between these two... weight, handling, comfort. We are also concerned about whether the Spinergy are noisy egg-beaters (re: the thicker spokes) and not very "aero slick" when compared to the Rolfs. On the other hand, how rough is the ride on the Rolfs? We had a set of Sweet-16s on a prior Santana and like them well enough, so I was thinking the Rolfs wouldn't be much different except a lot (~400gm) lighter?
Last edited by twocicle; 03-26-12 at 01:26 PM.
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I will be interested as well. Keep in mind that riders' expectation of wheel durability seems to vary quite a bit. Event wheels that might rack up a few thousand miles in a few years are plenty durable enough for some and others want wheels to go with little or no adjustment until the rim wear demands a rebuild.
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Great to see this actively discussed, because my wife & I are in the process of accumulating an inventory of parts for a new Calfee build up. At the moment there are maybe 20 shipments of parts in transit, including the actual frame & fork
We are teetering between Rolfs vs Spinergy. The wheels must have rear a disc option as we will be switching back and forth between rim brakes and disc on the rear. The pricing I've sourced between these is really close, so no real issue there. Team weight of < 300lbs and like doing high speed mtn decents.
It is bizarre that Spinergy does not list any tandem specific wheels on their website. Makes you wonder what their service level would be. AFAIK, Santana tends to spec fairly beefy gear, so I doubt those OEM would have feeble Al axles.
We were thinking that the Tx2 wheels may be a "boutique" version of the generic XAeros that House of Tandems is sourcing and maybe the only difference is the personalized shop labels. Just a thought. Want to hear the scoop from you guys what the comparison truly is, so looking forward to that feedback.
As far as performance diffs, I think Mark (TandemGeek) has already discussed key points between these two... weight, handling, comfort. We are also concerned about whether the Spinergy are noisy egg-beaters (re: the thicker spokes) and not very "aero slick" when compared to the Rolfs. On the other hand, how rough is the ride on the Rolfs? We had a set of Sweet-16s on a prior Santana and like them well enough, so I was thinking the Rolfs wouldn't be much different except a lot (~400gm) lighter?
We are teetering between Rolfs vs Spinergy. The wheels must have rear a disc option as we will be switching back and forth between rim brakes and disc on the rear. The pricing I've sourced between these is really close, so no real issue there. Team weight of < 300lbs and like doing high speed mtn decents.
It is bizarre that Spinergy does not list any tandem specific wheels on their website. Makes you wonder what their service level would be. AFAIK, Santana tends to spec fairly beefy gear, so I doubt those OEM would have feeble Al axles.
We were thinking that the Tx2 wheels may be a "boutique" version of the generic XAeros that House of Tandems is sourcing and maybe the only difference is the personalized shop labels. Just a thought. Want to hear the scoop from you guys what the comparison truly is, so looking forward to that feedback.
As far as performance diffs, I think Mark (TandemGeek) has already discussed key points between these two... weight, handling, comfort. We are also concerned about whether the Spinergy are noisy egg-beaters (re: the thicker spokes) and not very "aero slick" when compared to the Rolfs. On the other hand, how rough is the ride on the Rolfs? We had a set of Sweet-16s on a prior Santana and like them well enough, so I was thinking the Rolfs wouldn't be much different except a lot (~400gm) lighter?
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...highlight=Rolf
#41
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
Thanks. I've updated the Rolf thread with some info.
My wife leans toward a conservative bias of black spokes. If Spinergy, I was thinking maybe Yellow, but she found some reports of PBO spokes accumulating grime and light colored ones looking ugly if not regularly washed.
What do you think?
My wife leans toward a conservative bias of black spokes. If Spinergy, I was thinking maybe Yellow, but she found some reports of PBO spokes accumulating grime and light colored ones looking ugly if not regularly washed.
What do you think?
#43
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Thanks. I've updated the Rolf thread with some info.
My wife leans toward a conservative bias of black spokes. If Spinergy, I was thinking maybe Yellow, but she found some reports of PBO spokes accumulating grime and light colored ones looking ugly if not regularly washed.
What do you think?
My wife leans toward a conservative bias of black spokes. If Spinergy, I was thinking maybe Yellow, but she found some reports of PBO spokes accumulating grime and light colored ones looking ugly if not regularly washed.
What do you think?
They had a sample wheelset with a rainbow color of all the spokes. I was afraid she was going to want those!!!
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Just a couple of observations....
Rolfs... harsh when compared to conventional, Topolino or Spinergy. But, if you have a composite or Mg frame, you won't notice. More aero than most other boutique wheels, but that only comes into play when you're pushing 20+ MPH. Below that, other things have a much bigger impact on your aero drag... like the size of your bodies and riding position.
Topolino's... Top shelf technology for comfort and stability: hard to know they're not conventional wheels. Just not very Aero. We've got 5k miles on ours and the rear wheel has been rock solid. 1st front wheel had some issues, but 2nd has been trouble free. We like these a lot.
Spinergy... Hard to distinguish from the Topolino's. Very comfortable, very stable, very light. As for light colored spokes, the wind swept face of the white spokes on the Santana Beyond we rode for 3 days in Chattanooga for about 120 miles had a nice coating of dirt: YRMV. Very nice wheels.
Conventional 36h White Ind hubs w/Velocity Rims... about the same weight as Rolfs, very stable but not very sexy. However, reliability is as good as the builder: good builder = worry-free wheels that are easily as Aero as the Topolino & Spinergy wheels, but about a pound heavier. Far more comfortable than the Rolfs on steel frames.
Now, all of these observations come from someone who can tell when their saddle is a couple of millimeters out of adjustment, when their tires are 10-15 lbs low on air pressure, or who can pretty much estimate steering trail from the handling of a given tandem. I know folks who have a hard time knowing that they're riding on a tire that's going flat, never mind how much influence frame deflection might have on how their tandem handles.
Bottom Line: Go with that feels good to you and what makes you feel good. Or, as I've usually said: ride what you like and like what you ride. Lots of good options out there to choose from.
Rolfs... harsh when compared to conventional, Topolino or Spinergy. But, if you have a composite or Mg frame, you won't notice. More aero than most other boutique wheels, but that only comes into play when you're pushing 20+ MPH. Below that, other things have a much bigger impact on your aero drag... like the size of your bodies and riding position.
Topolino's... Top shelf technology for comfort and stability: hard to know they're not conventional wheels. Just not very Aero. We've got 5k miles on ours and the rear wheel has been rock solid. 1st front wheel had some issues, but 2nd has been trouble free. We like these a lot.
Spinergy... Hard to distinguish from the Topolino's. Very comfortable, very stable, very light. As for light colored spokes, the wind swept face of the white spokes on the Santana Beyond we rode for 3 days in Chattanooga for about 120 miles had a nice coating of dirt: YRMV. Very nice wheels.
Conventional 36h White Ind hubs w/Velocity Rims... about the same weight as Rolfs, very stable but not very sexy. However, reliability is as good as the builder: good builder = worry-free wheels that are easily as Aero as the Topolino & Spinergy wheels, but about a pound heavier. Far more comfortable than the Rolfs on steel frames.
Now, all of these observations come from someone who can tell when their saddle is a couple of millimeters out of adjustment, when their tires are 10-15 lbs low on air pressure, or who can pretty much estimate steering trail from the handling of a given tandem. I know folks who have a hard time knowing that they're riding on a tire that's going flat, never mind how much influence frame deflection might have on how their tandem handles.
Bottom Line: Go with that feels good to you and what makes you feel good. Or, as I've usually said: ride what you like and like what you ride. Lots of good options out there to choose from.
#45
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
So no breakdowns / deficiency complaints about the Spinergy. Interesting.
If we just knew more about them like what is the diff between those Tx2 (HoT) vs XAeros (Precision).
If we just knew more about them like what is the diff between those Tx2 (HoT) vs XAeros (Precision).
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Call Ric at HoT and I am sure he would elaborate. You can also call Precision and compare answers.
#47
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
I confirmed with Spinergy Sales direct and also received additional information from other sources.
Here's a rundown of my notes:
The Spinergy Tx2 label is simply a HoT rebrand sticker (see distibutor notes below) and otherwise the same wheel as the XAeros tandem wheels. This is a new Spinergy tandem specific product offering that is not on Spinergy's website yet. The 24 spoke Tx2 are otherwise identical spec wheels to the XAeros Light 24 wheels advertised elsewhere.
The 29'r 32 hole rim is 25mm wide vs. the 24 hole 19mm width rim used for Xaerolite builds.
The wheels use 6902 bearings and fit a rather large 15mm diameter hollow Aluminum axle, the same diameter as a current White Ind hub axle. The axle end allows it to fit into the dropout so unrelated to axle diameter. The rear wheel (road 700c) is designed on a 15mm platform using 2- 6902, 15x7mm sealed bearings.
Hadley makes the freehub while Spinergy makes the hubshells. Cassette hub is a 3 paw unit by Hadley and contains 2 MORE 15x7mm sealed bearings. The alloy hub is protected by a 38mm hardened steel lockring.
Spinergy will be providing a standard skewer of some sort, but currently not available from them. HoT is now shipping the wheelset with Ti axle skewers and a Spinergy branded quick releae lever.
Need to nail down the warranty info, ie: get it in writing. Spinergy said 2 years, but their only online doc says just 1 year. I guess it is what it is and doesn't change the wheels themselves. My Visa card provides a 2x warranty... of course I'd love 4 years total!
Pricing is set by Spinergy at a minimum of $899 for the XAeros / Tx2 24 spoke wheels. Unknown about other wheel sizes/types.
I believe the sourcing story is that HoT apparently worked directly with Spinergy to get a "tandem rated" wheelset officially created. HoT is the N. Amer distributor for all the tandem wheel models and using the "Tx2" label to track these regionally and where they were sourced.
---
The above is to the best of my knowledge, but I must state that I am not affiliated with any vendor or mfr and thus you should consider this information as only my understanding of the details.
---
BTW: I just bought a set from Ric at HoT!
Here's a rundown of my notes:
The Spinergy Tx2 label is simply a HoT rebrand sticker (see distibutor notes below) and otherwise the same wheel as the XAeros tandem wheels. This is a new Spinergy tandem specific product offering that is not on Spinergy's website yet. The 24 spoke Tx2 are otherwise identical spec wheels to the XAeros Light 24 wheels advertised elsewhere.
The 29'r 32 hole rim is 25mm wide vs. the 24 hole 19mm width rim used for Xaerolite builds.
The wheels use 6902 bearings and fit a rather large 15mm diameter hollow Aluminum axle, the same diameter as a current White Ind hub axle. The axle end allows it to fit into the dropout so unrelated to axle diameter. The rear wheel (road 700c) is designed on a 15mm platform using 2- 6902, 15x7mm sealed bearings.
Hadley makes the freehub while Spinergy makes the hubshells. Cassette hub is a 3 paw unit by Hadley and contains 2 MORE 15x7mm sealed bearings. The alloy hub is protected by a 38mm hardened steel lockring.
Spinergy will be providing a standard skewer of some sort, but currently not available from them. HoT is now shipping the wheelset with Ti axle skewers and a Spinergy branded quick releae lever.
Need to nail down the warranty info, ie: get it in writing. Spinergy said 2 years, but their only online doc says just 1 year. I guess it is what it is and doesn't change the wheels themselves. My Visa card provides a 2x warranty... of course I'd love 4 years total!
Pricing is set by Spinergy at a minimum of $899 for the XAeros / Tx2 24 spoke wheels. Unknown about other wheel sizes/types.
I believe the sourcing story is that HoT apparently worked directly with Spinergy to get a "tandem rated" wheelset officially created. HoT is the N. Amer distributor for all the tandem wheel models and using the "Tx2" label to track these regionally and where they were sourced.
---
The above is to the best of my knowledge, but I must state that I am not affiliated with any vendor or mfr and thus you should consider this information as only my understanding of the details.
---
BTW: I just bought a set from Ric at HoT!
Last edited by twocicle; 03-28-12 at 06:01 PM.
#48
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The wheels use 6902 bearings and fit a rather large 15mm diameter hollow Aluminum axle, the same diameter as a current White Ind hub axle. The axle end allows it to fit into the dropout so unrelated to axle diameter. The rear wheel (road 700c) is designed on a 15mm platform using 2- 6902, 15x7mm sealed bearings.
Hadley makes the freehub while Spinergy makes the hubshells. Cassette hub is a 3 paw unit by Hadley and contains 2 MORE 15x7mm sealed bearings. The alloy hub is protected by a 38mm hardened steel lockring.
For me the lower weight of an aluminum axle and freehub is not worth the possible durability issues but I put more importance on durability than many people on this forum. Losing some weight off our 2,000 gram conventional wheels sure is tempting.
Last edited by waynesulak; 03-30-12 at 08:04 AM.
#49
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
If all reports are true, there have been ZERO failures of these wheels including the oversize AL axle. Likely that part would be respec'd if something ever did arise, however todate, even the 29'r mtn bike bashers have not managed to do it.
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My comment relates more to my personal preferences and was not meant as a judgement that the wheels were bad wheels. As with any new product from me it is really too early to tell. I don't think that there is a right or wrong here. We all make component decisions based on our planned use, expected useful life, and personal biases. As noted, I am more conservative than many on this list but there others out there like me too. This forum has provided am important service by providing specs not listed on the company's web site so we can each decide.
Last edited by waynesulak; 03-30-12 at 08:05 AM.