moonwalker

Would appreciate any reviews by tandem owners that have these or have ridden on them.

Ritterview

These specifically?

Tx2 tandem

TandemGeek

Very nice. Only unanswered question to date is long-term durability and reliability in the field, given the wider-spaced tandem models are still relatively new. However, the PBO spoked wheels have been in use for road and off-road for a long time and I've not come across any horror stories or things to suggest they are subject to any significant issues.

I made mention of a special set of extra low-spoke count, 160mm Spinergy tandem wheels in this review from last year. The ones actually being sold in both the 145mm and 160mm widths have a few more spokes than the ones we rode. They were every bit as comfortable and flex-free as the Topolino wheels we normally ride. I'm not thrilled with the white colored-spokes, but that's about the only critique I could offer.

https://tandemgeek.wordpress.com/2011...eyond-sublime/

moonwalker

Yes, those are the ones and where we are looking. May take a test ride on some Thursday!

moonwalker

Thanks, nice read.

rdtompki

FWIW, I just noticed that daVinci is offering these wheels as original equipment. Looks like you can get black spokes.

TandemGeek

You'll be seeing them offered from quite a few different sources, OEMs like daVinci as well as the tandem speciality dealers who offer high-end tandems.

Tandems East is offering them for 26" & 700C/29" road & off-road tandems at an attractive price in a much wider choice of spoke colors - Black, White, Yellow, Red, Brilliant Orange, Lime Green or Pink

That is a good thing, IMHO. White looked good on the Santana Beyond, but it would be a non-starter on our nude Calfee.

The other thing that's really nice about the Spinergy wheels is that they're offered in single & dual disc compatible versions, something that I don't believe Topolino ever adopted.



Yup, turns out Mark @ Precision Tandems also offers them in a wide variety of colors and configurations at very attractive pricing - LINK

waynesulak

The view of Zipp on spoke count is surprising even though they limited testing to spoke counts from 16 to 24. It seams that spoke count by itself is not as important as it might first appear.

"The graph below shows the differences in aerodynamics between the spoke counts ranging from 16-28, and may be surprising in its lack of major performance differences. In fact, the 4 spoke differences between wheels are largely within the margin of error of the wind tunnel itself."

Article URL below (quoted from last paragraph of second page):

https://www.zipp.com/_media/pdfs/tech...spokecount.pdf

diabloridr

Don't ignore this quote at the end of the Zipp document:

"One could theorize that changing from 32 round to 32 oval spokes would provide a differential in wattage to spin, by as much as 10 watts, but to move from 32 round spokes to 18 or 20 ovalized ones can yield more than 20 watts of improvement."

I've always suspected the relatively large round spokes of the Spinergy wheel would fare poorly in aerodynamic testing.

At least I've never seen data which argues differently.

merlinextraligh

Zipp's data comparing round spokes to Sapim ovalized spokes would tend to support that conclusion.

However, aerodynamics can be wierd, and give non intuitive results. Nonetheless, I bet you're right.

p2templin

Have them, haven't put enough miles on them to provide great feedback yet. The short-timer answer is "I miss our Rolfs" but I think we're too heavy for the Rolfs to be our training wheels, and therefore I'm happy enough with the TX2s that I'm not going to ask for permission for a third wheelset. Stoker-wife did think we had a flat rear on our third ride on them, but it was just the sponginess.

If you decide to get creative with spoke colors, I suggest you visit a local Spinergy dealer and view their sample spokes. The blue spokes are brighter than I'd like...they're a little bright for our bike but that's OK. The TX2s are all going through House of Tandems, but it's the same spoke colors as what your local Spinergy dealer would have.

p2templin

I can't be certain, but that page suggests that they aren't TX2s. Our TX2s are 20/24 spoke, same count (but different pattern) than our Rolfs.

TandemGeek

I suspect there are several different iterations of the Spinergy wheels out there being marketed to tandem buyers. Again, you'll recall that I test rode a set of "special" 20/20 Spinergy's on the Santana Beyond last May labeled as XAeros whereas the ones that Santana is actually fitting to its tandems are 24/24. Tandems East & Precision are both describing the wheels they are selling as 24/24. The ones depicted at Tandems East carry the TX2 label, whereas the ones depicted at Precision Tandems carry the XAeros branding. I find it amusing that everyone has been "working with Spinergy" to develop these wheels but, at the end of the day, I suspect the 20/24 and 24/24 as well as the XAeros and TX2 are all pretty much the same.

As for the Aero drag stuff, nah.... I'll leave that alone.

rdtompki

I tried to look at the Zipp pdf, but none of the figures appeared. I'm assuming they were looking at a single wheel in proximity to the "ground" as a function of rotation rate and cross wind, but that's just speculation. The results would be interesting, but I'm not personally very aerodynamic.

merlinextraligh

I'm pretty sure I know where you were starting to go, and I agree that for most applications, minor aero differences, are pretty much irrelevant.

However, if aerodynamics are an important consideration, such as for a dedicated set of time trial wheels, these wheels likely are not the best choice.

waynesulak

Amen. For B group 100+ teams like us I think the most valuable aero equipment is the mat I use to stretch and do core work. If I don't stretch the bike position gets more vertical over time.

TandemGeek

+1

These are fashion statement wheels, much like Topolino, Rolfs, etc.... They look good, they "feel" faster than most 40h OEM spec wheels, and some of them actually do make for a more compliant ride.

If you really need racing wheels, buy racing wheels and hold them in reserve for special events so you can reap the benefits.

DubT

Mark,

I usually agree with your comments but I don't agree with this one concerning the Topolino wheels. As you know we bought a set a few months ago and have over 2,000 miles on them and they are comfortable yet solid, they also seem to be faster than the Bontragers that we were using.

I currently have a set of Hed tri spoke wheels on my Trek SC 9.9 and a set of Zipps that we used on our Santana Targa when we raced in the TT nationals a few years ago. In my subjective opinion the Topolino wheels are much more comfortable and nearly as fast. For us the Topolino wheels are not fashion statement or boutique wheels, they are awesome riding, handling wheels for everyday use. We are semi retired and are able to ride almost everyday and the Topolino wheels are our wheels of choice.

If a team needs racing wheels then, they should look at Zipp/Enve/Hed etc. however the time savings over a 40k time trial is maybe a couple of minutes. I know that in a national event that can make the difference between winning and loosing.

Wayne

bikefor2

I think this depends on your goals, comfort and psychological well-being

If they look fast -- GOOD
If they feel fast -- GOOD
If they are cool -- GOOD
If they are fast -- GOOD
If they are lighter -- GOOD
If they are pretty -- GOOD
If they are comfortable -- GOOD

Same is true for bike frame, paint job, jerseys, etc. If it looks good and you feel good it's cool. If you are a serious hard core racer maybe that doesn't matter so much, but for a lot of us bling, lightweight parts, awesome paint jobs and pretty wheels are just plain cool. Seriously.

TandemGeek

Well yeah.... Topolino's are 2lbs lighter than the Bontragers. Even a set of 1850g 36h wheels would make your tandem feel more light and responsive than the Bontragers. I offered that very same observation when you were in the market for new wheels to put on the Calfee to no avail.

Here's the deal, based on our experiences the Rolf's seem to have the least amount of drag of all the boutique wheels we've ridden and/or own, which include the Topolino's, two different versions of the Rolfs, Bontragers, Spinergy, and about 9 different sets of conventional wheels with Phil Wood, White Ind, Chris King, DT and Hadley hubs using various different rims and 32-48 spoking. We also like our Topolino's about as much or more than any set of wheels we have. They ride just like our 36h conventional wheels with White Ind hubs & Deep-V rims, but at nearly 3/4 of pounds less weight and with a bit more compliance and they look-awesome on the nude Calfee given the color of our decals. Aero drag wise, they're in the same ball park as the 36h wheels with Deep-V rims for all but the fastest descents where wheel-related drag becomes a bigger factor and that's where the Topolino's begin to lose a little ground. Conversely, that's where the Rolfs get the nod for lower drag but still lose on comfort.

These comments are based on doing a bunch of back-to-back tests after getting our Calfee. And, frankly, some of the differences are so subtle that riding impressions from different teams will be highly subjective depending on their past experience, expectations, and what they characterize as good riding qualities... Remember, there are folks out there who love the way Cannondales perform, while others... not so much. Of course, tire selection and pressure variations can alter any of these things given how narrow the differences are in how these wheels perform. I feel for the folks who will only ride heavy, wire-beaded tires on their tandems.

Again, my point is that a conventionally-spoked lightweight wheel is in most cases just as good as most of these boutique wheels when it comes to performance for your average recreational team. The look good, they feel faster (especially if you've been riding on a set of 2,200g wheels) and I firmly believe both the Topolino's and the Spinergy's offer a more comfortable ride vs. the Rolfs... especially on a steel or aluminum framed tandem.

For racing applications, any of these wheels will work -- including the conventional wheels -- but the very-deep section rims from Zipp, ENVE, etc. are the ones that are going to make the biggest difference... which was the point of my post (and why I originally didn't want to go there).

DubT

Back in my racing days, I had racing wheels and training wheels, the racing wheels were light weight wheels equipped with light weight tubular tires. My training wheels were heavier, more robust wheels with clincher tires. There was a distinct difference in the feel of the light weight wheels and i received a mental boost from the lighter wheels. When we rode the tandem in the nationals i used Zipp wheels, deep section in the front and a full disc in the rear. After the nationals i left those wheels on the tandem. They were basically bullet proof, no broken spokes and no maintenance, they have thousands of miles on them and appear to have many more thousands of miles left on them. The rear will not fit the new Calfee and the front is so rigid/stiff that I do not use it anymore. For us at our age every ride is special, our combined age is 137 but we are having as much fun, if not more than we had 20 years ago.

So bottom line for us is that if the wheels feel good, ride good, accelerate good, climb good and we think they are faster, they are the wheels for us. We do not race, except for ourselves, and will probably never do a time trial, except a comparison to our last ride. I do record all of our rides on Strava and Garmin connect.

Have a great weekend everyone, no matter what wheels you are riding!

p2templin

Remind me not to post from an out-of-state hotel room when it's been two weeks since I've seen our tandem - our TX2s are 24/24. The TX2 is a true tandem-specific wheelset, with several changes from Spinergy's single line. The XAeros are, well, not TX2s: they're heavier, if nothing else.

p2templin

I don't think Topolino's design allows them to add a disc mount: the spokes run "around" the hub, and do not attach to it. It'd be no fun watching your hubs come to a screeching halt, but your tires/wheels/spokes keep on rolling as they slice through your hubs.

Except Spinergy's website lists no dealers in Kansas or Missouri. Good luck actually getting TX2s (or XAeros) from Precision Tandems...

moonwalker

We did purchase a set from House of Tandems. We chose the black spoke color. We purchased to cut a little weight from the bike, for the comfort it added to the ride (the difference was felt immediately) and because it added a "cool" look factor to the bike. Only had a few days, 100 miles, but so far so good.

waynesulak

At the weight mentioned for these wheels am I correct in thinking they have aluminum axles and a aluminum free hub on the rear?
I looked at Spinergy's web site but the tandem wheels don't seem to be mentioned. The downhill wheels do have an aluminum axle and freehub.