Rambetter

I have a fairly nice 25 year old fillet-brazed steel Santana Sovereign.
I'm thinking about putting fenders on it, but not sure what kind to get.

I do have experience with fenders on single bikes, my current bike is a Surly Pacer frame, and I have very nicely installed Planet Bike fenders with mudflaps. They fit perfectly. I have the "Sheldon Fender Nuts" on this setup,

which allows the fenders to be bolted on from the back of the brake nut.

However, the setup on my tandem is totally different.

First I will describe the front fork. The clearance between the tire (28mm, it's as narrow as I'm willing to go) and the top of the fork is just barely enough for a fender. There is enough space, but the clearance on the back is twice as much. The fork is not drilled through because it has cantiliver brakes. However there is a threaded hole on the back of the fork. This hole appears to be the right size for bolding on fenders with normal sized tabs. However, since I'm not using Sheldon Fender Nuts, the tab on the front fender will probably end up hitting the headset parts, so the fender tab will probably need to be bent back to avoid hitting the headset parts. The Sheldon Fender Nut allows the tab to be further back, clearing the headset easily (see photo attachment).

Next the rear fender. The tire clearance is very adequate. the mounting hole on the back of the "bridge" is tiny however. It appears to take a much smaller diameter screw than the front. My worry is that the hole in the rear fender tab will be much larger, and the small screw through the larger diameter tab will be very sloppy. There is also a threaded hole at the bottom bridge near the rear bottom bracket.

Of course there are eyelets in the fork and rear dropouts for mounting the fender stays, and these appear to be standard size for accepting screw sizes that would normally come with Planet Bike fenders.

One other minor issue is the wheels are 27 inch, whereas modern fenders are 700c, but it's so close that I don't think it'll be a problem.

So my question is, what would be good fenders to get? Are there any fenders that would be better suited to the very small mounting holes on the bridges on the back fender? Also with about 1.2cm of clearance between front tire and fork, will this be enough space?

ksisler

Ok, so it seems you have already answered your own questions.... buy fenders to fit your current or planned tire size (so that is 27") and width (32mm or whatever) assuming you have first figured out what tire width fits your frame. Then finagle all the mounts to optimize the fenders on the bike. And yes PB fenders are good ones. Recommend the mud flaps also.

Carbonfiberboy 

I run SKS full fenders, which have proven very durable. Their P35 set works with tires up to 28c, but wider tires need a wider size. Mounting a fender set on most bikes is at least a half-day enterprise in a decent workshop with at least a vise, drill, the usual hand tools, and a vast assortment of SS fasteners. But once you get them mounted properly they'll be easy to put back on next winter.

Don't forget to put on major mudflaps that come almost to the ground, especially for the front fender. I make them out of ribbed stair tread material and bolt them on. Hence I prefer long fenders without toy mudflaps on the ends, like PB puts on some of their fenders.

Chris_W

Mudflaps are an excellent idea. I've tried making my own, but they are never ideal. SKS actually make some really nice ones now that I've been happy with when mounting to some of their fenders and one other brand's.

photogravity

For fenders, I'm partial to Velo Orange or Honjo. They take a little more time and care to install, but for aesthetics they're pretty hard to beat. On a gorgeous old Santana like yours, that's the direction I would go as opposed to the plastic fenders.

Carbonfiberboy 

I had smooth Velo Orange fenders on year before last. Being thin aluminum, the rear fender fatigued and broke at the center mounting point in one season. The fender was not stressed and was well mounted. I was not happy, though they did look good while they lasted. A ribbed aluminum fender (polygon sectional shape) might do better. The SKS don't fatigue.

photogravity

CFB, I have heard reports of some aluminum fenders breaking, but I've not had any problem with using them so far. I do not have experience with the smooth VO fenders as I've got the fluted fenders on my 1984 Davidson tandem and have a set of zeppelins on their way to go on my 1978 Jack Taylor tandem. As a good friend of mine frequently says, your mileage may vary.

I do concur that the SKS fenders are very well designed and won't fatigue. Additionally, they are a bit easier to install than alloy fenders in my experience.

PMK

I don't know if they fit, but I entered the SKS Friday fender give away and won a set of their Raceblades. Pretty cool.

https://reviews.mtbr.com/sks-free-fen...e-long-fenders

I plan to install them on my urban bike (rigid MTB with slicks and better gearing)

PK

Rambetter

photogravity, I really admire your Davidson tandem. What a beauty! The fillet brazing is similar to mine.

And I do still have unanswered questions regarding fender intstallation.

Two things:
1. Is there enough clearance on front wheel, and why is the clearance on the back 2x as much? By design?
2. Why are the holes for the rear fender mount so freakin' tiny? Will small diameter screws still work on rear fender "tabs", or are there fenders made for this particular small screw diameter?

Here are the details.

Here is a picture from the front of the fork:

As you can see the clearance on the 28mm tire is minimal. I measured the clearance with a caliper, and got 10 millimeters. Well actually more like 9. That's the clearance going vertically from top of tire to bottom of fork crown.

The back of the fork has a hole:

...and I believe it's threaded. Seems to be a hole for a decent-sized screw, the kind that would fit well through a front fender tab.

Now the back of the bike. The rear tire has twice as much clearance:

I measured just over 20 millimeters with a caliper. That's 2x as much as the front! Now why would they design it this odd way?

Furthermore, there is a small threaded hole on the front of the rear bridge:

This hole is substantially smaller in diameter than the hole in the back of the fork. Now why would they make this a tiny hole? Seems like a very small diameter screw won't be an ideal fit through the tab of a rear fender. Maybe with some large washers the installation would be sloppy at best. Are there fenders that have a rear one with a smaller tab hole? My Planet Bike Cascadia fenders on single bike have rather large holes in the fender tabs (that mount behind brake nut using Sheldon Fender Nuts).

I'm going to find out the exact sizes of screws that fit into these holes this weekend, with the help of a local bike shop.

photogravity

Rambetter, thanks! Now about your Santana.

1) It does appear you have enough clearance to accommodate a fender on the front of the bike. You'll need to be judicious in tire choice though, since you're not going to be able to go to a bigger size easily with a fender installed.
2) The hole on the "brake" bridge is strange to me, but may be common on Santana bikes. Someone else may be able to comment on that.

You could end up with interesting fenderline on the rear with as much space as there is between the bridge and the tire, but since most of the brackets allow for up and down adjustment I believe you'll be fine if you take your time and pay attention to getting the fit correct. I'd also not be too concerned with the size of the hole you will be mounting the fender to as you can place a washer there and it will be more or less hidden behind the bridge.

Carbonfiberboy 

We also have a threaded hole in the aft side of the crown of our WoundUp fork. I think it's intended for fender mounting, very thoughtful. Ours is about 1/2" deep. The tapped holes in our CoMo frame are threaded for M5 bolts.

Rambetter

I did some research into Velo Orange and Honjo fenders and I see too many potential problems.
Cracking, Not enough adjustment capability on the rear, and frankly I don't like the nuts inside the fender.
I decided to try the Planet Bike Cascadia fenders, same as on my single bike, but will have the wider version.
The only thing I don't like about the Planet Bike fenders is that the flow of water inside the fender gets obstructed by the metal stay mount thingies inside the fender.
What I did on my single bike is I applied duct tape over the metal thingies and now the water flows smoothly all the way around the front fender without dripping out onto my legs.

I don't think the seatstay bridge being 20mm away will be a problem on the Cascadias because the mounting tab has a lot of room for adjustment. However the chainstay bridge is also 20mm away from the tire; there, I will probably have to place a piece of wood or something between the bridge and the fender.

Also the smaller hole on seatstay bridge won't be a problem with washers I guess.

conspiratemus1

I would not try to fit a fender under the fork crown when there is already only 9 mm clearance from tire to underside of the crown. You have to allow for the thickness of the fender and the fact that the fender tends to encroach on that clearance in strange ways, often because they usually have a bit of twist in them. (Carbonfibreboy is right about the time and effort involved in mounting fenders even when things go well!)

What I would do is to saw off the front end of the fender at the mounting clip and have it butt up against the back side of the crown, without passing underneath. Then you can mount the fender as high as you need to clear the tire and any foreign-object debris that gets stuck to it and carried up under the fork. Yes, you probably will need to bend the clip back to clear the crown race -- or use a long machine screw with spacers between crown and fender clip to emulate the effect of a Sheldon nut. Measure 3 times, cut a little longer than you need, then measure 3 times again, cut to fit. I did this on a Santana Targa with what looks to be the same frame as your Sov, only difference was the hole was drilled clear through the crown. Can't remember if it was threaded -- surely yours is, though, since a blind hole with no threads isn't good for much.

If you want a portion of fender projecting forward of the fork -- and yes, for function and aesthetics you should -- you could use one of those clip-on fenders shortened appropriately and mounted "backward" (i.e., on the front of the fork.) You will need to play with the stays and maybe re-locate the brackets that attach the stays to the fender to get it to fit. The advantage of this approach is that the support from the stays allows you to make the front extension a lot longer than with an out-of-the box front fender. I have seen photos of Alex Singer touring bikes set up this way, for better rain protection.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes. I cut of the front of my front fender when mounting to a carbon fork, exactly as described. Works well. The only downside is that when the wind is just so, water from the unprotected tire can come back in your face. I haven't tried putting extra fender in the front. One of my buddies did, but took it off after it malfunctioned. YMMV.

ksisler

Could you post some overview and closeup pix of your 1978 Jack Taylor tandem. I am a huge fan and knew some folks who worked with them way back then.

/K

photogravity

ksisler, I'd love to post some pics of the JT, but it's still sitting in a box in my living room. I'll post pics when I get it assembled. The pics I put on Flickr were from the seller. I know that some parts are not "period correct" for the bike.

Rambetter

Well, I mounted fenders on my 25 year old Santana a while back and thought I'd share.
Ended up using leather washers bought from Acorn Bags, that have a 6mm punched hole.
Some of the mounting screws are 5mm whereas the holes in the fender tabs are 6mm, so I used some brass tubing (inner diameter 5mm outer diameter 6mm) from a hobby store to put around the 5mm screw to make it fit perfect in the fender mounting tabs.