bradcycles

We are actually using the 28mm tires right now, so I'm guessing those are even heavier. The GP4000S sound like a nice upgrade. We're still getting used to feeling safe turning on the tandem, so I think the heavy duty tires make us feel a bit safer for now.

Do you know the diameter of where the stem would attach to the seatpost? Our seatpost has a 29.8 diameter. I couldn't find the diameter listed for those stems.


Wow! Impressive attention to detail! I hadn't noticed that rear skewer on there. It's from our old, heavy wheels. We had our bike mechanic put on these upgrades. He put the new Spinergy skewer into the old wheels. I just tried putting the skewer into the new wheels, and it isn't long enough. I guess we got a non-Santana rear skewer with our wheels.... Do you know if the KCNC skewers come in the length necessary for Santana tandems?

Thanks for all your help! Great ideas!

bradcycles

I have actually been trying to reduce the weight of my primary road bike recently, and have been trying different saddles. Even though my saddle is supposed to weigh 210 grams, when I weighed it, it was actually 240 grams. I tried the toupe pro saddle, and it was uncomfortable for me. I am now trying the specialized romin pro, and it is definitely better than the toupe for me. If i decide to stick with it, i will probably get the romin sworks for my road bike, and move the romin pro to the tandem. My stoker has the butterfly saddle cromoly which is 335 grams on the tandem. She is experimenting with two different saddles weighing 172 grams and 218 grams. If either of those work for her, that will be some nice weight savings.

Ritterview

It's 31.8 mm for the Inpulse. I think you could use a shim.

I have 135 OLD, and I think I have the mountain skewers. There is some extra length, but not enough for the Santana 160 OLD. Upgrades to a Santana are often problematical.

The Romin does look much more comfortable, and is still a very light saddle. I imagine that the S-Works Toupe will make me tougher or something. It is more comfortable than I have the right to expect for 113 grams.

twocicle

Over the last 2 weeks we have also been doing the saddle shuffle. The Terry saddles we have on the tandem and Linda had on her single are shot. After 10 years they offer very little support and the padding has gone to mush.

Last year I mounted a Selle SMP Stratos on my single (after a Dynamic was too wide and hurt my hamstrings) and that worked out well enough, but I am looking at other saddles now for both single and tandem.

Nice thing about Specialized is that they have many widths in all their saddles, mostly 143-168mm. I was measured with sit bones at 115mm, and so require a narrow 130mm saddle. My local store does not carry many 130s so I end up testing 143mm saddles and try to extrapolate how they would feel in a narrower version. Linda was measured at 125mm and so she also needs a more narrow saddle than the average woman.

Currently I am riding a 130mm Specialized Romin Evo Expert (Ti rails, $90 from my local store). It is advertised as being 199gm, but IRL, everyone including me has weighed it as 228gm, some 30gm more). It is maybe the most comfortable saddle I've ever had as far as my sit bones and to the front area, though I'm not 100% sure yet because there is some hamstring soreness occurring. Otherwise, the sitbone support is perfect and no other pain or numbness. BTW, the Romin Evo 130mm is not listed on the public Specialized website, but the dealer site shows many of this size are available.

I may be ordering in a 130mm Romin Expert (the old "SL" I believe) next if that has a narrower hamstring area. The Romin models are a little more rounded on the sides and narrower in the nose than the Toupe models, which don't work for me at all, but many people online seem to really like the Toupe so your results depend on personal testing. For me, the Toupe is too square in the back section and does not roll off quick enough and that causes problems with my hamstrings. Last note, there seem to be a lot of reports that the Romin (non-EVO) shell breaks often, so you may rethink that model.

Linda went through the store's entire stock and couldn't find anything that she liked. We ordered a Terry FLX (manganese rails, advertised at 228gm but actual weight is 240gm) that she is now testing on her single/trainer riding over the last couple days. It is listed as a 142mm width (which caused her problems in the Specialized line) and seems to like it, though she is working on getting used to a much firmer saddle than her old mushy Butterflys. It could be a winner.

bradcycles

When I look at that link, I see that the stem works for 31.8mm oversized handlebars. Is it also 31.8mm where the stem would attach to the seatpost? I didn't see that dimension listed.

merlinextraligh

Looks great.

From the pics, it looks like you should be abel to find a fixed stem. Just eye balling, it doesn't look like you've got the adjustable one extended much at all.

And by going to a stem with less rise, you can get the exact same position from a shorter stem. (it just mounts higher on the seat post)

merlinextraligh

Most stems sold today are for 1 1/8" steerers (with shims to take them to 1")
So, the stem is designed for 28.5mm

29.8 mm seatpost could be a problem.

My understanding is that Co-Motion uses a narrower seat post, and shims it at the seat for this reason.

waynesulak

Titanium skewers are available from Santana or other tandem specialty shops. Not nearly as light as ones mentioned but lighter than steel. Rear listed at 48 grams on the Precision Tandem web site. Also try House of Tandems that carries Spinergy Wheels for Santana.

I also doubt 135mm skewers would fit a more common 145mm rear tandem.

twocicle

Something that is frequently overlooked under the category of "on the road weight" is waterbottle selection. Read this post to see how last year we eliminated 184gm of empty dead weight, and a full 520gm weight when loaded with water.

bradcycles

Agreed. We actually use those camelbak bottles. I like the idea of using the smaller sized ones for the weight savings. We are doing an attempt on our tandem at a PR up our local hill this weekend, and one of our changes this weekend will be to ride up the hill with empty or nearly empty water bottles. We figure we can save almost 3 pounds over last week when we had two full water bottles.

Ritterview

OLH? When will this feat be taking place?

bradcycles

If the Alto Velo B-ride (Saturday ride) does OLH this week, then we will likely join them for that portion. If not, we'll do OLH on our own, probably leaving my house in Palo Alto around 9ish to go up the hill. Keeping my fingers crossed that we both have a good day. We'd love to get sub-22...

twocicle

Dang, after a 4 month winter layoff up here, we have another 3 months retraining before doing any big effort like that. You guys are so lucky to have near 365 riding.

waynesulak

We ride all year but my stoker is having knee hip issues so we are limiting the tandem great spring weather riding. Bummer.

bradcycles

We ended up starting with the AV B-ride and decided to do the same hill as them today (Huddart/Kings). Our OLH PR attempt will have to wait. It was our first time up Kings on the tandem. For the tandem, I liked the shallower grade of Kings compared to OLH (after Huddart, which is steeper than OLH).

Our ride:
https://app.strava.com/activities/44649211
(we had to get back for a birthday lunch, so had to cut the ride short)

Tookool

We hope this won't keep you from attending the SWTR 2013 in April.

bradcycles

thanks for your help! using that chart, i think i found a stem that works (a 3t arx team stem, with 17 degree angle and 14cm extension). waiting to receive it from ups, and keeping my fingers crossed that it does the trick and saves us a couple hundred grams.

bradcycles

I decided today that I'm going back to my trusty, old (and heavy) saddle. the romin is definitely better than the toupe for me, but it's still not as comfortable as my heavy wtb saddle. it's also been tricky finding the right adjustment for the saddle, since it positions me in a much different spot than my wtb saddle. i decided i'd rather keep my undersides healthy at the price of an extra 100 grams. and to keep my bike fit consistent between all my other bikes with the same saddle.

Onegun

Wise choice. From years of owning shops and working with thousands of customers on fit, my advice was always that the three places you don't sacrifice are your primary interface points with the bike, i.e., your hands, feet and butt.

Never exchange comfort for grams or dollars saved. If you do, you'll quickly find that your savings has put you beyond the point of diminishing returns and you get slower, not faster.

twocicle

Per my post in #29 above, we are changing out our saddles for a couple reasons, one of them for me is numbness from the men's Terry Fly.

The Romin EVO has a touch more padding than the regular Romins and FWIW the saddle specifications do not show any difference in weights. I have been riding the $90 EVO Expert 130mm model enough to determine it is a winner and will be keeping that one for my road single, plus getting a EVO Pro for the tandem. The slightly more padding on the EVO seems just the ticket. It doesn't look any more padded than a regular Romin, but there is a big diff in feel.

Besides shape selection, proper width sizing is critical for everybody, and for me all +143mm saddles are torture. I had a $220 Selle SMP Stratos that was doing fairly well on my single and for +100 mile rides, but the "rails" up the sides through the crotch area seem a bit too narrow and it needs a more even support platform through there. This Romin EVO seems more comfortable with better support through the crotch area and sit bone support seems about on par.

I have always preferred a saddle with a curved front-back profile which helps support my forward pelvic rotation, and the Romin (or SMP) do just that. The Toupe models are a flat profile, which can contribute to lower back fatigue and pain.

Comparing pricing to other saddles of this quality and weight category, Specialized saddles are surprisingly economical.

Here is an interesting article on how the Romins came to be: https://www.bikerumor.com/2011/12/08/...-roger-minkow/

Ritterview

Robert Egger, of Shiv Tandem fame, which is adorned with Romins (or are these Toupes?). I didn't know he was the head of design at Specialized. Nice to know the design head at Specialized has a thing for tandems. If Specialized ever made a tandem again, they'd be able to sell two Romins with each!

bradcycles

i just replaced the adjustable stoker stem with a 140mm 17 degree stem from 3t. a photo is below. so far, it hasn't saved much weight, because i had to use 3 shims for this setup (one for my seatpost; one to attach the stem to the seatpost; and one for the stem to the handlebars). two of the shims are pretty heavy (around 25-30 grams). also, i had cut my previous seatpost to make it lighter; the new seatpost hasn't been cut yet. so, no real weight saving so far. i'm going to try to find lighter shims and get the seatpost cut, and then i'll see how much weight savings i can get...

Ritterview

Ah, think of the weight savings and stoker-pleasing looks and smooth feel of a shim-ditching 31.8 mm carbon bar. I'd think any stoker that contributes to your team's blazing time up OLH deserves no less.

The proven favorite is the 200 gram Profile Designs Viper Wing.


There is also the claimed 174 gram Deda Dabar ($116 at Ribble)



And no-name claimed 160 gram carbon bars found on eBay.

bradcycles

How can I argue with that logic? I just ordered them at my LBS. Thanks! I hope my stoker likes them! And, it should save us some weight! It's gotta be worth at least one second up OLH!

Ritterview

Wow, fast action, you are all in! If present trends continue you'll soon have a sub 30 lb. Santana and a sub 20 min time on OLH. Two tandem achievements not often seen. If you two are not featured prominently in the next issue of Tandems & Tandeming, well, Santana is missing out!