Salsa making Tandems
#2
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It would be interesting to see the steel tubing diameter and wall thickness.
#4
Senior Member
Meh.
Based on the specs listed, I'd pick a Fandango 29er from MTBtandems over this bike for the following reasons:
1. Made in the USA
2. Quality, tandem worthy wheelset
3. For $300 more you get a quality front suspension fork too!
Most of the other stuff is a toss up.
I guess if you wanted to run single speed then maybe you might go with the Salsa...
Based on the specs listed, I'd pick a Fandango 29er from MTBtandems over this bike for the following reasons:
1. Made in the USA
2. Quality, tandem worthy wheelset
3. For $300 more you get a quality front suspension fork too!
Most of the other stuff is a toss up.
I guess if you wanted to run single speed then maybe you might go with the Salsa...
#5
Likes to Ride Far
Another advantage for the Salsa is that it has more braze-on bolt threads than any other stock bike. Practical things like that always gets me excited, and it's something that Salsa (and all QBP brands) always do well. This theme is continued with the home-mechanic-friendly mechanical disc brakes - another good choice. I like the bike a lot and the price seems very reasonable.
Plus, I assume that any LBS with a QBP account (which is just about all stores in the US I believe) can order one of these, which will make after-sales service more local and straightforward. Even my shop in Switzerland has an account with a local distributor who offers the Salsa and Surly range (from whom I already own a single MTB and a cargo bike). Your local shop will be able to sort you out with a suspension fork upgrade for a decent price if that's what you need.
Plus, I assume that any LBS with a QBP account (which is just about all stores in the US I believe) can order one of these, which will make after-sales service more local and straightforward. Even my shop in Switzerland has an account with a local distributor who offers the Salsa and Surly range (from whom I already own a single MTB and a cargo bike). Your local shop will be able to sort you out with a suspension fork upgrade for a decent price if that's what you need.
#7
Uber Goober
My stoker refuses to consider mountain/gravel adventures.
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#8
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I just put in my order for one, but now I have to have to figure out how to get it on my car.
#9
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FWIW, you can get a ready-to-ride Fandango Rio from MTB Tandems with a frame that's hand made by Ventana here in the USA with a White Bros suspension fork for about $400 less than the rigid Salsa Powderkeg that's batch produced in Taiwan. Also, a Co-Motion Scout is $500 less than the Salsa and a Co-Motion Mocha is the same price; again, these are hand made frames by Co-Motion up in Eugene, OR. Just saying.
Last edited by TandemGeek; 02-26-15 at 07:52 PM.
#10
Likes to Ride Far
There's a lot more to a bike than which country the frame is manufactured in. In fact, that characteristic has no direct effect on the bike's performance or other characteristics, and should possibly be ignored entirely. Just saying.
#12
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FWIW, you can get a ready-to-ride Fandango Rio from MTB Tandems with a frame that's hand made by Ventana here in the USA with a White Bros suspension fork for about $400 less than the rigid Salsa Powderkeg that's batch produced in Taiwan. Also, a Co-Motion Scout is $500 less than the Salsa and a Co-Motion Mocha is the same price; again, these are hand made frames by Co-Motion up in Eugene, OR. Just saying.
Do you have some ideas of where Salsa is trying to position this tandem, given the cost differences as you point out. I recall very favorable reviews of the Ventana with suspension fork. What is your thought on how the Salsa is to compete, is the Salsa name enough of an incentive to inspire people to pay the extra money?
#13
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And, my apologies to Salsa if they're actually making the Powderkeg's frame here in the US; that would be really cool and might even justify the premium price. If that's the case I will immediately redact any false assumptions.
Hey TG,
Do you have some ideas of where Salsa is trying to position this tandem, given the cost differences as you point out. I recall very favorable reviews of the Ventana with suspension fork. What is your thought on how the Salsa is to compete, is the Salsa name enough of an incentive to inspire people to pay the extra money?
Do you have some ideas of where Salsa is trying to position this tandem, given the cost differences as you point out. I recall very favorable reviews of the Ventana with suspension fork. What is your thought on how the Salsa is to compete, is the Salsa name enough of an incentive to inspire people to pay the extra money?
Intuitively, even though it's a steel framed tandem I would have expected it to go head-to-head with the updated for 2015, $3,250 Taiwan-made aluminum Cannondale 29er tandem ($2,799 in 2014). However, looking at the specs and components, the Cannondale has what I think is a better build using a mix of SLX/XT/SRAM components with 40h DT hubs and rims, Magura hydraulic brakes, etc. vs. an almost all SLX build on the Salsa and 32h SLX hubset/rim: good luck with that on a 29er tandem. So, I'm not sure why they priced it at $3,999. I can't see that the $749 buys you much more than some Salsa decals and the Salsa team color paint job. So, head-to-head, the Cannondale is a no-brainer if you're shopping for best value and don't care where it's made.
If the aluminum Fandango was the benchmark, again... they missed that mark given that the TIO is as previously mentioned less expensive but uses a frame that was hand-made by Ventana for MTB Tandems, comes with a suspension fork and an overall superior build kit. IMHO, the Fandango is actually THE best value in a true off-road tandem, bar none. So, again, Salsa has name recognition and owner loyalty, but otherwise misses the mark by a huge margin.
On the plus side for the Salsa design that came out of Minneapolis, it was nice to see they decided to offer three sizes vs. Cannondales 2 size offerings. That said, the way the Cannondale's are designed they'll still fit a wider range of riders and make dismounting on rugged terrain potentially less traumatic for the inseam challenged captain. With a nod to Ventana who has always used a very generous stoker compartment on its tandems and Cannondale as well, it was nice to see the Salsa using generously sized stoker compartments at 29.1" on the Med/Sm & Lg/Sm and 30" on the Lg/Md, such that the Med/Sm & Lg/Sm could use the 29" Gates timing belt that Cannondale had developed for it's Jumbo-sized road frame if someone was so inclined and wanted to drop even more $$ into the rigid bike.
Last edited by TandemGeek; 03-04-15 at 06:51 PM. Reason: Proofread what I wrote; OMG... a grammatical mess.
#14
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TG, from what I am seeing posted all across the internet, Salsa is getting a following from their brand loyal group. Those that have spent time on a true mountain tandem, riding serious technical terrain or tight singletrack understand the benefit of the Ventana and Fandango beyond the USA build. The Salsa will fit the bill for gravelgrinders and similar rides. There will be serious bikepackers using them too. With hope (not the brake and hub company) these Powderkegs will not blow up in the middle of nowhere.
I agree with you about the spec. Seems subpar for the abuse that can be dealt out by a serious team.
We may likely agree, and DS2199 plus AKEXPRESS can support this if they too agre, that serious off-road tandeming is not for the faint of heart, requires possibly more trust than on the road, and is a very long walk to the truck when something breaks. We spend stupid money to abuse these bikes, making them safe to ride fast over a lot of miles.
PK
I agree with you about the spec. Seems subpar for the abuse that can be dealt out by a serious team.
We may likely agree, and DS2199 plus AKEXPRESS can support this if they too agre, that serious off-road tandeming is not for the faint of heart, requires possibly more trust than on the road, and is a very long walk to the truck when something breaks. We spend stupid money to abuse these bikes, making them safe to ride fast over a lot of miles.
PK
#15
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Salsa is leveraging their very loyal brand followers to command another premium priced product launch. If they can get away with it why not?
#16
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TG, from what I am seeing posted all across the internet, Salsa is getting a following from their brand loyal group. Those that have spent time on a true mountain tandem, riding serious technical terrain or tight singletrack understand the benefit of the Ventana and Fandango beyond the USA build. The Salsa will fit the bill for gravelgrinders and similar rides. There will be serious bikepackers using them too. With hope (not the brake and hub company) these Powderkegs will not blow up in the middle of nowhere.
I agree with you about the spec. Seems subpar for the abuse that can be dealt out by a serious team.
We may likely agree, and DS2199 plus AKEXPRESS can support this if they too agre, that serious off-road tandeming is not for the faint of heart, requires possibly more trust than on the road, and is a very long walk to the truck when something breaks. We spend stupid money to abuse these bikes, making them safe to ride fast over a lot of miles.
PK
I agree with you about the spec. Seems subpar for the abuse that can be dealt out by a serious team.
We may likely agree, and DS2199 plus AKEXPRESS can support this if they too agre, that serious off-road tandeming is not for the faint of heart, requires possibly more trust than on the road, and is a very long walk to the truck when something breaks. We spend stupid money to abuse these bikes, making them safe to ride fast over a lot of miles.
PK
#18
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