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Want to build a FAST light tourer for riding to work that I may use for other rides

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Want to build a FAST light tourer for riding to work that I may use for other rides

Old 04-16-15, 09:35 AM
  #51  
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650B ( and A and C) French tire size , French Frame Builders have been using them for Decades.. want a Custom Build or a Taiwan Import?
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Old 04-16-15, 11:28 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
Is it your belief that the soma saga disc is significantly lighter and livelier than the disc trucker? Weight is not something they publish so if true, that is good to know.
I was thinking more of the ES than the Saga. I agree with niknak, you seem to have your eye mostly on loaded touring/expedition style bikes, which doesn't really line up with my mental image of a "fast light tourer."

Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
Does anyone make a light touring bike with 650b or 26" wheels? The reason I've suggested the heavier bikes is because they seem to offer the mix of features I am looking for. I would actually prefer a lighter bike over a heavier one, all else equal. I don't want something that has a dead ride and is overkill. It does seem that many people choose to commute on cross bikes and gravel bikes.

The straggler 650b is a relatively new frame offering. Is it significantly lighter than the disc trucker? The geometry is quite different but it may build a faster bike.
Surly used to list weight for all of their frames. Right now, they're very inconsistent about it, which is annoying. They do give a weight for the Straggler 650B: 2.27 kg. I think the politest word available is "portly." That's without counting the fork, which is over a kg. The Straggler may be significantly lighter than the LHT (though I don't think it is), but even so it would still be pretty hefty in an absolute sense. This is pretty much Surly's schtick. They use very thick gauge tubing for the application for pretty much all their bikes. It makes them tough, and they hold up well with a load even if they aren't really intended for it, but you pay the price at the scale and with ride quality.
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Old 04-16-15, 12:28 PM
  #53  
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I also dislike toe overlap and I don't listen to folks telling me I should just ignore it. There are plenty of times where groups can slow way down and you find yourself meandering through a slowing or stopped crowd using very sharp turns. Suddenly, BANG! --your clipped in foot jams against a turned wheel and you go down. I created a toe-overlap calculator a few years back that one can use to determine if a frame will have overlap. I'm attaching a pict of one of my light tourer builds that had slight toe overlap as a 700c. I converted it to 650B and love the result. (soft Compass 32's and no overlap)

53CM 2000 Lemond Buenos Aires

[Adding: I've also done several 26" light tourers and am currently building up a new 26" light weight commuter]
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Old 04-16-15, 12:41 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by grolby View Post
I was thinking more of the ES than the Saga. I agree with niknak, you seem to have your eye mostly on loaded touring/expedition style bikes, which doesn't really line up with my mental image of a "fast light tourer."
Maybe it's a stupid tradeoff, but I'd rather have disc brakes than save 3 or even 5 pounds of weight. 20 years from now, even children's bikes will probably have disc brakes. Flat bar commuters, especially high end ones, tend to have them, so clearly disc brakes aren't viewed as overkill for the use I intend. I'd hate to have to either have a bike that rides like a dump truck unloaded or give up the disc brakes, which is why I keep bumping this post, hoping someone will point out a bike that is a closer fit to my intended use. If not, it may just come down to the Straggler 650b vs. the Disc Trucker and I may just have to decide which will fit better.

If I could afford a custom frame, I'd probably also invent my own new class of bike--not too heavy, durable, panniers (and heel clearance), disc brakes, gear hub, dry belt drive, and aero without being uncomfortable. The goal for this build will be to try to get as many of those things as my budget will allow.
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Old 04-16-15, 01:07 PM
  #55  
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Maxway Taiwan makes a lot of nice steel Frames sold by other brands


VO orders a 650b frame from somewhere ..

Still say Bike Friday , By going to a light, super rugged 20 " Wheel* solves a lot of fit Issues that are compromises in trying to stick with a bigger wheel..

And are made in Oregon .. .. * 406 or the narrow high pressure 451.. they can Build around Disc or Rim Brakes as you Choose .
and IGH with a Belt Drive https://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/silk
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Old 04-16-15, 01:25 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
Maybe it's a stupid tradeoff, but I'd rather have disc brakes than save 3 or even 5 pounds of weight. 20 years from now, even children's bikes will probably have disc brakes. Flat bar commuters, especially high end ones, tend to have them, so clearly disc brakes aren't viewed as overkill for the use I intend. I'd hate to have to either have a bike that rides like a dump truck unloaded or give up the disc brakes, which is why I keep bumping this post, hoping someone will point out a bike that is a closer fit to my intended use. If not, it may just come down to the Straggler 650b vs. the Disc Trucker and I may just have to decide which will fit better.

If I could afford a custom frame, I'd probably also invent my own new class of bike--not too heavy, durable, panniers (and heel clearance), disc brakes, gear hub, dry belt drive, and aero without being uncomfortable. The goal for this build will be to try to get as many of those things as my budget will allow.
I believe an important element of a tourer is field repairability. I avoid disc brakes largely because I think rim brakes are easier to maintain or fix after a crash on the side of the road. Ditto with IGHs.

Last edited by dbg; 04-16-15 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 04-16-15, 01:30 PM
  #57  
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Crash Often, do you?
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Old 04-16-15, 01:32 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Crash Often, do you?
Not me. Others whose bikes I end up fixing.
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Old 04-16-15, 01:46 PM
  #59  
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I have a Soma Saga (700c version) and it is nice riding and handling frame, and I use mine for commuting, touring and riding on greenways. In smaller frame sizes, it is made to fit 26" tires, and it comes in canti or disc brake versions. The Handsome XOXO is another 26" frame worth a look. I don't believe they are making them any more, but you can find them for sale on the internet for bargain prices ($400-450). This frame is patterned after the old Bridgestone bikes.
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Old 04-16-15, 01:46 PM
  #60  
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A fast, light tourer. Between 23 and 24 lbs. without racks. Happiest carrying 35 lbs. or less.

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Old 04-16-15, 02:21 PM
  #61  
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Looked at Waterford bikes?
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Old 04-16-15, 02:30 PM
  #62  
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LightHouse Sequoia
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Old 04-16-15, 03:32 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by dbg View Post
I believe an important element of a tourer is field repairability. I avoid disc brakes largely because I think rim brakes are easier to maintain or fix after a crash on the side of the road. Ditto with IGHs.
True for tourers, not so true for shorter distance credit card/light/sport tourers. Thus my idea. Fast, durable, somewhat lightweight, and low-maintenance. Unfortunately I don't have the budget for an IGH bike and if I did, I'd have to use a chain or a custom frame to use a belt. But it's an idea that is rolling around in my head.

Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Looked at Waterford bikes?
Yes I have heard of them, but I think they're out of the price point I have in mind for this bike. Maybe in a few years.
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Old 04-16-15, 05:27 PM
  #64  
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I recently built up a LHT for my relatively short commute (+ a few off road adventures) and can provide my take on the experience thus far. First, here's the bike shortly after the build. I've added a rear rack to carry a pannier when it rains, but other than that, everything is unchanged.




With the Big Apple tires, the bike rolls pretty well on paved roads. Where it really excels is on rougher pavements and dirt/gravel roads. I weigh around 145 lbs and inflate the tires to ~40-50 psi. At that pressure, the bike seems to float over most cracks, gratings, etc. that I'd normally avoid on my skinny tire road bike. On dirt and gravel, it's surprisingly fast in that I don't have to be overly cautious.

It's setup with an 44/30 front x 12-25 (or 27) rear 8-speed cassette, which is plenty low enough for what I need it to do. The campy shifters are 10 speed, but works fine with 8 speed Shimano cassettes and rear derailleur. The saddle is a Selle Anatomica that I've laced to reduce the side flaring and is super comfy. I have shallow drop bars on it, similar to the Soma Hwy One. And of course fenders for when it rains, but this actually helps the bike stay clean.

The downside is the weight. I'd say that it's probably somewhere in the range of 28-30 lbs. I've only done a few long hill climbs (3+ miles) with it unloaded, and it was tough going. Slow and steady is the right attitude for going uphill. Downhill OTOH, you can really bomb down and the fat tires have amazing grip.

Would I recommend it for commuting and touring? Definitely yes. Would I take it on a fast group ride? Definitely not.
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Old 04-16-15, 05:32 PM
  #65  
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that's a heck of a good looking bike
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Old 04-16-15, 05:49 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by cosmonhat View Post
I recently built up a LHT for my relatively short commute (+ a few off road adventures) and can provide my take on the experience thus far. First, here's the bike shortly after the build. I've added a rear rack to carry a pannier when it rains, but other than that, everything is unchanged.




With the Big Apple tires, the bike rolls pretty well on paved roads. Where it really excels is on rougher pavements and dirt/gravel roads. I weigh around 145 lbs and inflate the tires to ~40-50 psi. At that pressure, the bike seems to float over most cracks, gratings, etc. that I'd normally avoid on my skinny tire road bike. On dirt and gravel, it's surprisingly fast in that I don't have to be overly cautious.

It's setup with an 44/30 front x 12-25 (or 27) rear 8-speed cassette, which is plenty low enough for what I need it to do. The campy shifters are 10 speed, but works fine with 8 speed Shimano cassettes and rear derailleur. The saddle is a Selle Anatomica that I've laced to reduce the side flaring and is super comfy. I have shallow drop bars on it, similar to the Soma Hwy One. And of course fenders for when it rains, but this actually helps the bike stay clean.

The downside is the weight. I'd say that it's probably somewhere in the range of 28-30 lbs. I've only done a few long hill climbs (3+ miles) with it unloaded, and it was tough going. Slow and steady is the right attitude for going uphill. Downhill OTOH, you can really bomb down and the fat tires have amazing grip.

Would I recommend it for commuting and touring? Definitely yes. Would I take it on a fast group ride? Definitely not.
Love the bike. Just out of curiosity, what size is it? Also, what kind and size are those tires? And how long is your stem/spacer/bar setup? Are you happy with the fit?
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Old 04-16-15, 07:23 PM
  #67  
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This is my chromoly 26" wheels touring bike, with Panaracer T-Serve PT 1.5" tyres, weighing 11.52kg. It can't hold a candle to GT Grade Alloy 105 gravel tyre 28c, whether it's speed or accelleration, and is not superior to the Grade for plush soft ride. The Grade weighs exactly 1kg less. The Grade riding posture is a little more aggressive than the tour bike, but definitely more relaxes than a road bike.


This is the Grade Alloy 105 11 speed, disc brake.
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Old 04-16-15, 07:43 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
Their Sherpa looks promising (although they must measure their frames differently, the reach seems long). Are they available in the US?

Also, the gear hub bikes seem like a great idea, just out of reach for me at this time. In a few years though, I'd seriously consider building such a bike.
The Sherpa is not a light bike, more like a LHT.

Thorn are a boutique outfit and do not have agents or resellers anywhere. You either visit their shop in person or order a bike on line. Freight is quite expensive although if you are outside the European Union you don't pay the VAT which brings the price down to 10/12 of list price.

Mike
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Old 04-16-15, 07:58 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Mike Ayling View Post
The Sherpa is not a light bike, more like a LHT.

Thorn are a boutique outfit and do not have agents or resellers anywhere. You either visit their shop in person or order a bike on line. Freight is quite expensive although if you are outside the European Union you don't pay the VAT which brings the price down to 10/12 of list price.

Mike
Their prices are competitive and I like their brochure. I am probably going to go with Surly because my LBS sells their frames, but I definitely spent some time reading that brochure and I like some of the ideas I see.
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Old 04-16-15, 08:04 PM
  #70  
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a Sherpa is totally overbuilt for your uses, they are known to be solid tanks with the heaviest loads.
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Old 04-16-15, 08:52 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by dbg View Post
I believe an important element of a tourer is field repairability. I avoid disc brakes largely because I think rim brakes are easier to maintain or fix after a crash on the side of the road. Ditto with IGHs.
I am with you on rim brakes but just how many Rohloff IGHs have you been asked to repair on the road?

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Old 04-16-15, 11:03 PM
  #72  
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I have a Jamis Nova Sport 2014 that I use to commute and light touring. The good thing is the bike is fast and has 700x32 tyres, fit fenders and rear rack with no problem, the bottom thing is the famous toe overlap

I am 188cm tall and I am using the Jamis 58cm size frame. It fits perfectly, very comfy body position for long distances rides and if you live here in Canada I found this bike for CAD $799.00 at SportChek.

Here is a picture:
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Old 04-16-15, 11:26 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
Their prices are competitive and I like their brochure. I am probably going to go with Surly because my LBS sells their frames, but I definitely spent some time reading that brochure and I like some of the ideas I see.
In the "Light Touring Thread" you picked one of the heaviest bike frame brands on the mass market, and your second choice was the heaviest touring bike brand available?

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Old 04-16-15, 11:57 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
Love the bike. Just out of curiosity, what size is it? Also, what kind and size are those tires? And how long is your stem/spacer/bar setup? Are you happy with the fit?
The bike is a 50cm...at least this is what I measured it as. The tires are Schwalbe Big Apples 26 x 2.15. The stem is 90mm, and you can get them at Velo Orange. I added 1cm of spacers in addition to the clamp part of the stem, which makes it about 90mm as well. The bar is 42 cm wide. As for fit, at 5'6" with a 29"-30" inseam, the setup works really well. I prefer to be a little more upright when commuting, so the stack height is appropriate.
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Old 04-17-15, 07:55 AM
  #75  
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Surly LHT is not light nor fast. I never ride mine except for loaded touring, where I enjoy it's dependability and ruggedness.

If I was looking for a drop-bar-disc-brake-commuter from a bike shop I'd look at something like a Trek Crossrip
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