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Touring with a Shimano 105 Road Triple

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Touring with a Shimano 105 Road Triple

Old 10-06-15, 03:40 PM
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vijinho
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Touring with a Shimano 105 Road Triple

This is just some advice for anyone who wants to tour with a road-bike triple and what I learned from the experience.

Firstly, I toured Spain and Italy for 5 weeks last summer with my bicycle (Charge Plug 4 2014 - 10-speed 105 kit) configured 50/34 and 12-28 (1.21 turn ratio, 32.7 gear inches). Some mountains were killer and I had to walk up but overall I survived, with some painful knees at times.

By last winter I'd changed to a 50/39/30 and 12-30 Tiagra cassette for my tour in South America (1:1 - 27 gi). It was much better but climbing some mountains was real tough, though I'd managed to go as high as 1250m on a very hot day with lots of horseflies buzzing around to motivate me to keep going, it was tough.

Upon my return I reversed the b-screw on my short-cage rear derailleur and successfully fitted an 11-32 SRAM cassette (0.93 - 25.4 gi). A recent weekend in the Welsh mountains made me reconsider my options... I was climbing better, but still there were some places just too steep to handle, and that's carrying no gear! So recently I decided to see if I could change my granny ring from 30 to 26 - success!

So to summarise with a standard 10-speed 105 triple, if you need more gearing you can get from the official 30/30 front/rear short cage limit to 26/32 (0.81 ratio - 21.9 gear inches)

I think that's probably the maximum one can get out of a road-triple, but I'd like too see if anyone improves on it.

Obligatory bike photo attached with current setup.


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Old 10-06-15, 04:06 PM
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I would first go with a 105 GS RD, or even a SGS 9-speed mountain RD to get it to 34 or 36 cog.

For my 8,9 speed bikes instead of the 74/130mm crankset I would simply go with a 74/110mm crankset, but on 10 speed this may be problematic. Shedon Brown says older cranksets will work with 10-speed, but I would want to put in some research before trying it.

Touring Triple Cranks and Cranksets for Bicycles 110-74 BCD

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Old 10-06-15, 04:35 PM
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Yup. You're better off touring with touring gears.
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Old 10-06-15, 06:38 PM
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After my first tour, I came to the conclusion that there is no such thing as too low.
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Old 10-07-15, 04:45 AM
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I've done credit-card tours with a 105 50/39/30 triple and 11-28 cassette. With no more than about 10lbs in a saddlebag, I found I could get up most things. It's much higher gearing than I would use for fully-loaded touring, but significantly lower than I normally run on my other road bike, when my lowest would be 36/27.

So it boils down to what sort of experience you want. Go ultralight and you can manage with taller gearing, but it is certainly a higher speed, less relaxed trip than one gets with a more traditional touring-specific setup.
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Old 10-07-15, 04:53 AM
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You can go as low as a 24 tooth on a 130/74 bcd crank. That means you'll get a 15 tooth drop from the middle chain ring to the small (from a 39 to a 24) which is tough for a lot of front derailleurs to handle. I picked up a 2009 fuji touring bike recently that came stock with a 130/74 bcd crank and I'm going to swap it out before I go touring with that bike.

Shimano has done a poor job in recent years of providing gear for touring cyclists which tells you that touring is a small piece of the market.

The deore trekking crank is a better choice for touring than a road triple.

The deore 9 speed rear derailleur is a better choice for touring than a ultegra/105/tiagra long cage rear.
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Old 10-07-15, 08:05 AM
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It has been done.. riding across the country without asking on this forum too..

Build factories fit components as shipped to them at the best price.. in volume.

Its up to the buyer to seek out non standard parts substitutions , if that is what they want.
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Old 10-07-15, 04:14 PM
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Vijay;

I suggest that you get a 11-36 cassette (9 or 10 speed) and a Shimano M592 RD, along with your 26T granny ring.
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Old 10-08-15, 12:53 PM
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Some interesting points to think about from everyone, thanks. I think I'm going to be just fine with this new 26t granny ring - will report after the next tour
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Old 06-11-22, 04:17 PM
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7 years later I reply to you... My rear medium cage Shimano 105 10-speed derailleur snapped on a similarly setup all-purpose bike (still have the one in the original post!) after 6 years of use, and I replaced it with a 8/9 speed Shimano RD M591 no problems so that was a great tip from you, that any MTB Shimano 8/9 speed derailleurs work with the now old 10-speed road shifters. I am considering whether or not to get the 11-36 cassette, or maybe even remove the 11T cog and fit a 36 cog at the end...
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Old 06-12-22, 12:23 AM
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I used to tour with a Shimano 105 crankset. I put a 24t chainring on the 74mm BCD inner position. That gave me very low gearing.
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Old 06-13-22, 06:14 PM
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Thanks yeah I'm still using a 26T granny ring on both of my 105/5703 triple bicycles, although the chain slipping off has been an occassional problem, did you use any kind of mcguffin to mitigate that issue? I just bought two deda dog fangs to try out.
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Old 06-13-22, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by vijinho View Post
Thanks yeah I'm still using a 26T granny ring on both of my 105/5703 triple bicycles, although the chain slipping off has been an occassional problem, did you use any kind of mcguffin to mitigate that issue? I just bought two deda dog fangs to try out.
dog fangs work really well. I have it on one of my bikes and it does the job perfectly---of course, you do need to be sure that the adjustment screw on your fd is properly adjusted--just that will help with keeping your chain on.
My bike with a dog fang also has a 50/39/30 triple that I changed out to a 26t

check out installation details, but you want it to be as close as possible and positioned correctly vertically also, and it will work well.
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Old 06-13-22, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by vijinho View Post
Thanks yeah I'm still using a 26T granny ring on both of my 105/5703 triple bicycles, although the chain slipping off has been an occassional problem, did you use any kind of mcguffin to mitigate that issue? I just bought two deda dog fangs to try out.
I have no clue what a mcguffin or deda dog fang is, but if you are dropping a chain, get a chain catcher. In the photo the chain catcher is wrapped around the seattube, some of it is behind the cadence sensor. It keeps the chain from dropping onto the bottom bracket shell inside my granny gear chainring.


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Old 06-13-22, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I have no clue what a mcguffin or deda dog fang is, but if you are dropping a chain, get a chain catcher. In the photo the chain catcher is wrapped around the seattube, some of it is behind the cadence sensor. It keeps the chain from dropping onto the bottom bracket shell inside my granny gear chainring.
McGuffin is a new name to me. Dog Fang and ChainWatcher" are names of two brands of guides that function identically. I'm guessing McGuffin is another. I believe ChainWatcher started this though people have been jury-rigging similar contraptions a long time. (Also leaving their FDs to rub in low gear to accomplish the same effect.)

I use Dog Fang and ChainWatcher interchangeably.
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Old 06-13-22, 10:20 PM
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I rode an FSA Omega road triple (30-39-50) in an otherwise Shimano Sora groupset with a Deore M590 9 speed rear derailleur and an 11-36 cassette for years. It's within the total capacity of the derailleur and Mega 9 shifts flawlessly between STI levers and MTB rear derailleur (front will not work the same, though). It's getting to be a bit out of date, but 10 speed STI levers will readily shift a 10 speed MTB cassette using a 9 speed rear derailleur.

The thread's originally from 2015, though, when 10 speed road stuff was more common. Personally? For fully loaded touring in 2022, I'd go with MTB Alivio 2x9 (22-36 on 11-36) or Deore 2x10 (26-36 on 11-42) shifted with Microshift bar end shifters if you have a drop bar set up. Probably not universally popular, and there'll always be some guy who scoffs at the idea and talks about spinning out on 36-11 with 25 kgs/50 lbs of gear onboard, but each to their own, you know? I have a pristine 2x9 Alivio groupset taken off a basically new MTB (with one of those cheap riveted Acera 22-36 cranksets) that I'm probably going to use with an 11-40 Sunrace cassette and Jones bars. Cheap and cheerful and good for a commuter/tourer being ridden daily, as it's cheap to replace stuff.
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Old 06-14-22, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
McGuffin is a new name to me. Dog Fang and ChainWatcher" are names of two brands of guides that function identically. I'm guessing McGuffin is another. I believe ChainWatcher started this though people have been jury-rigging similar contraptions a long time. (Also leaving their FDs to rub in low gear to accomplish the same effect.)

I use Dog Fang and ChainWatcher interchangeably.
Thanks. I have been using chain catchers for over a decade, when companies come up with one with a different shape and put a trade name on it, I do not read the magazine ads to see what the new names on old stuff are.
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Old 06-15-22, 03:10 PM
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So here are the two different dog fangs I purchased to help prevent the chain drops, one had instructions on the back, the other didn't. The small one was on the steel framed customised 2014 Charge Plug 4 (greyish) touring bicycle, and the larger on the 2016 Kinesis Tripster ATR (shiny) titanium bicycle I built which was based on the previous bicycle (original photo at the top of the thread). The titanium bicycle is about 11 kg, the other is about 16 kg btw. It was relatively straightforward fitting the fang on the steel bike, although a bit fiddly tightening the screw once positioned, which is slightly higher than should be because of interference with mech wiring behind. Doing the same on the titanium bike was much more hassle because it couldn't be positioned the same as in the instructions, so it's just got the tooth only next to the chain, with not as much of the tapered part. I adjusted the limit screws on the front 105/5703 triple derailleur and changed into the small ring a few times testing with both, there were no drops of the chain onto the bottom bracket and the chain fell neatly into the 26T granny ring OK on both. Tomorrow I will take both bicycles out for a spin by the local canal and see how they do going up the several steep, short bridges that are there along the path.

Sadly I haven't toured in 6 years since I built-up my dream "bike for life" titanium Kinesis Tripster ATR, but the other bicycle to several countries with me and performed brilliantly. It's much more comfortable and soaks up the road better, although slower. A few weeks ago the rear derailleur hanger on the ATR snapped after the chain fell off the big ring and the derailleur was also busted. The hanger is integral on the other steel bike though which I thought afterwards is better. I swapped the broken 105 5700 10 speed rear mech for a 8/9 speed deore M591 which of course is compatible and shifts fine with the 5700 brifters through the 10 speeds.


The two different fangs (1)

Charge Plug 4 bicycle dog fang (a)

Charge Plug 4 bicycle dog fang (b)

Charge Plug 4 bicycle dog fang (c)

Tripster ATR bicycle dog fang (d)

Tripster ATR bicycle dog fang (e)

Tripster ATR bicycle dog fang (f)

Charge Plug 4 (g)

Kinesis Tripster ATR (h)
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Old 06-15-22, 03:29 PM
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Ive noticed over the years that technique downshifting plays a part.
Speed shifting (Im using friction shifting on one bike) and also it seems to me that going to the small chainring while the chain is on the smaller end of the cassette (so less chain tension re teh derailleur) also seems to play a part.
Overall though, a well adjusted limit screw tends to be the main factor, but my one bike that has one of these, bike with brifters and the bike I changed from a 50/39/30 to a 26 like you did, this bike pretty much shifts well with the "kachunk" brifter downshift--so I figure the dogfang thing is doing its thing properly.

on my touring bike with friction front shifting, Ive only dropped the chain a few times, and Im fairly certain it was because of doing the shift when in smaller cogs at the rear, combined maybe with a too quick downshift and less finesse.

I'm sure this should help your bike.
they are smart designs these things, simple and effective.
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Old 06-16-22, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by vijinho View Post
So here are the two different dog fangs I purchased to help prevent the chain drops, ...



...
...



...
...
Of the two that you installed, one is the exact opposite of the other in the two photos above.

I have always installed mine they way that your first photo shows, never installed like in your second photo. But if both of yours work just as well, maybe it does not matter?

***

After yesterday when I said in a previous post that I have been using them for over a decade, I dug around on my hard drive and I found a photo that I downloaded in 2011 from a website that showed some bikes that were to be used in a professional race, I still had the photo, below:



And if I recall correctly, the caption to that photo was something like - - Is <insert name of racer> actually using a chain catcher on his bike in <insert name of race>? And I think the discussion was that a mechanic must have taken a piece of wire and bent it to fit to make sure chain did not drop.

That was the first time I saw someone use one that was not a plastic band that goes around a seat tube. But if you have a weird shaped seat tube made of carbon or aluminum, I can see where you need a different way to attach it. But since then I have seen dozens of commercially made ones that did the same as the piece of wire, but cost was much much higher.
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Old 06-16-22, 08:02 AM
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LOL! No wonder it was difficult yesterday, thanks for your eagle eyes - I have corrected my mistake now.
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Old 06-16-22, 09:03 AM
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It was not really a question of which is difficult to install, but more an issue of pushing the chain onto the chainring before the chain has moved that much further, the later (in this case about an inch later) you try to fix that, the more you have to lift the chain up to get it back onto the chainring.

Glad to help.
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Old 06-16-22, 10:06 AM
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Hey, that's why you're paid the big bucks here right Tourist!
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Old 06-16-22, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Hey, that's why you're paid the big bucks here right Tourist!
You got it.
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