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Old Road Bike Build

Old 11-04-15, 10:41 AM
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Old Road Bike Build

So I have this idea. I have an older Bianchi road bike that I don't ride much any more. I was drinking beer in the garage the other day and noticed 2 things. The frame/fork have what look to me to be rack mounts and there appears to be ample tire clearance. I am wondering if I can build this bike into a touring/cyclocross/gravel bike combo? My intended use would be 1-2 night road tours, 1-2 cyclocross races a year (never done one yet), lots of gravel/dirt road riding (I live in Colorado, thinking fall river road in RMNP). I've done some basic google research and the following is what I think needs to be done.

Cockpit - New bars, I'm going to stick with drop bars. I like the drop bars that are flat on the top. Should I stick with a quill stem or use a threaded adapter?

Wheels - New (to me, used is fine) wheelset, over 30 spoke count? MTB hub? Maybe 2 sets of tires. 1 for road touring and 1 for off road/cyclocross.

Brakes - Long reach caliper brakes. Looks like Shimano and Tektro sell new ones for decent prices. Anyone better than the other?

Crankset - Triple ring at least 22 for the small ring, do I want a MTB crankset for this? What do I need to know about bottom brackets?

Shifting - STI shifters, MTB long cage RD, FD (will I need a road FD to work with the STI sifters?) Thinking 10 speed. 36 t Cassette? Should I go bigger?

Racks - buy racks? Anything else I need to know?

Will I need to expand the rear hub size for a 10 speed hub? Bike has 6 speed now. Rough measure has the rear wheel gap at 127mm.

Anything else I should think of? Is this doable?

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Old 11-04-15, 10:50 AM
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Probably 6 speed freewheel.. I Think this will be a Money Pit... by the time You buy all those 'upgrades' You have most of the cost of

a New Bike
Past 8 speeds gains you little . its the range difference between High and low that matters , not how finely you slice the loaf.
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Old 11-04-15, 11:06 AM
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I say 10 speed as I have a 9 speed road bike and replacment parts have been tough to find cheap. I've seen a lot of used 10 speed stuff cheaper than 9 speed.

That said 9 speed MTB stuff is easier to come across. Maybe ill look into that.

I am a pro at eBay and craigslist scouring. I don't plan on buying much if anything new for this build.
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Old 11-04-15, 11:28 AM
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Before you invest a lot of money, I'd just try out the tire sizes you intend to ride.

What size of tires are you running now? 700x25? Your tire clearance will go away quickly if you go any bigger than 28s. You'll be rubbing if you put on 32 or 35mm tires. And, no clearance for debris. You may also find it a pain if you have to deflate the rear tire every time you want to mount/dismount it with the horizontal dropouts.

You could go with 650b wheels/tires, but may end up with brake reach problems, especially if you intend to swap between 650's and 700's.
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Old 11-04-15, 11:37 AM
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The couple of hundred you can get for this bike selling it would be a nice down payment on a modern touring bike. If you do all you are considering, you will end up spending as much anyway.
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Old 11-04-15, 12:33 PM
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You, my friend, are about to embark upon that most nonsensical of journeys--the endless and very expensive trek towards a “cheap” bike re-build. (After all the frame is free right? Or at least, you paid for it so long ago it seems free .... )

First off, 126 mm rear dropout spacing means you either have to stretch/bend the frame (Sheldon Brown will show you how) or use a 7- or 8-speed freewheel (Shimano makes good 7-speeeds, Evo and Sunlite and SunRun (Chinese nobodies) make 8-speed—should be about $15.)

The gear spacing on these clusters (Not cassettes) are odd so you might find some indexed shifters don’t agree with them. They will work, but not smoothly. Good news is you can get a ShiftMate for about $40 to even the cable pulls. See how cheap this all could be already?

Best if your brifters are designed for the same number of gears as the cluster—and 7-speed brifters can be tough to find. Microshift sells them new for about $60, and you can occasionally find rebuildable Shimano RSX shifters (used) on Ebay for about the same. 8-speed is easier to find, and costs about the same if you shop around. Under $100 for sure unless you get impatient.

I’d recommend looking for 8-speed 105 or Tiagra stuff—durable and reliable if you buy used.

Any front derailleur should be compatible with the brifters except maybe some Shimano MTB derailleurs—plenty of documentation available online. So, stick with NOS or used 48-38-28 chainrings, I’d say—should be good enough for short tours and cyclocross also.

I know from experience the Shimano road FDs can handle old-school Shimano MTB chainsets—don’t know about newer ones, but there is a lot of info on the Internet about it.

Of course, you can always spend another $40 on a front ShiftMate.

You will probably want an MTB rear derailleur so you can run 11-34 or 11-36 in back. Up to 9-speed all Shimano RDs should work with all brifters.

—Or——

Spread the frame in back to 130 for road or 135 mm for MTB hubs, and you can run all the latest gear—cassettes and freehubs instead of clusters and freewheels—And at 135 can use the strong MTB hubs.

I definitely recommend this for steel frames—so many more options in wheels, tires, hubs, cassettes—drivetrains in general .... Just be sure to look up the various cable pulls for the various derailleurs. (Cable Travel Adapter Cribsheet Ordering from Peter White Cycles )

So ... cassette, crankset, derailleurs, brifters, maybe a ShiftMate ... by the time this Bianchi hits the road you will have invested so much money and so much of yourself you will almost completely refuse to consider the very common-sense suggestion that you could have sold the Bianchi and the cash from that, plus what you spent building it, would have paid for a brand new bike which you already would have been riding for several weeks.

Been there, done that, in the midst of still doing it again and again.

You decide.

Last edited by Maelochs; 11-04-15 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 11-04-15, 01:22 PM
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8 speed continues to be made and installed on New modestly priced Bikes .

My Most used Touring Bikes were 6 speed Freewheel Bikes ,

But I Built my rear wheel around Phil Wood's Robust freewheel hub for trouble free Riding.
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Old 11-04-15, 01:35 PM
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7 spd freewheels are narrower than 8.

But, there is very little difference between 8, 9, or 10. So width would not be a major reason to choose 8 over 10.

I'm running 9s on my bike using a Velocity Aerohead OC rim.

For a bit more robust, perhaps build your 8/9/10 spd wheel using the Velocity A23 Off Center rim.

Originally Posted by timdow
The couple of hundred you can get for this bike selling it would be a nice down payment on a modern touring bike. If you do all you are considering, you will end up spending as much anyway.
The bike is a nice, moderate quality older Bianchi.

Not particularly "collectors value", but, unique. I don't see any reason not to do what one wishes with it, although there will obviously be a few compromises.
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Old 11-04-15, 02:00 PM
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It would be far better to just buy this for $800. I'm not a shill for the company and inexpensive bikes come with compromises, this bike is no exception. Customer service is very mediocre, parts can require adjustment, even disassembly, to correct for inadequate lubrication, all fasteners should be checked for proper installation, etc. The fact remains, I have found, that there is a lot of value in buying a complete bike when faced with the prospect of little to be saved from the old bike. This from someone who loves to buildup bikes. Haha

Free Shipping* Save up to 60% off new Cyclocross Road Bikes - Motobecane Fantom CX Clearance
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Old 11-04-15, 02:13 PM
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It looks like a decent bike for $800 or $850 depending on the size/color.

I'm not sure why they are using horizontal dropouts???? Single speed compatibility?

One thing, however is that the discount bikes inevitably cut corners somewhere. It simply lists aluminum hubs and straight gauge spokes. One can do better if one is doing a custom build.

But, even scrounging, a quality groupset or partial groupset is expensive, so I'm impressed with the Shimano 105 build. No doubt BikesDirect gets their parts at much lower prices than I can get anywhere.
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Old 11-04-15, 02:21 PM
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Not all road bikes feel comfortable on sketchy dirt surfaces, I'm with a few others. Get a frame/bike suited for the purpose.
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Old 11-04-15, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
It looks like a decent bike for $800 or $850 depending on the size/color.

I'm not sure why they are using horizontal dropouts???? Single speed compatibility?

One thing, however is that the discount bikes inevitably cut corners somewhere. It simply lists aluminum hubs and straight gauge spokes. One can do better if one is doing a custom build.

But, even scrounging, a quality groupset or partial groupset is expensive, so I'm impressed with the Shimano 105 build. No doubt BikesDirect gets their parts at much lower prices than I can get anywhere.
The wheels are typically of poor quality on inexpensive bikes. I don't doubt that this bike is no exception. If properly adjusted and lubricated, you'd get serviceable use for at least a season. Beyond that, the lack of seals, wear, etc would probably force a reconsideration of their continued use.

Last edited by cale; 11-04-15 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 11-04-15, 04:12 PM
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Buying BD or BikeIsland, you know what you are getting: a cheap bike. Not a bad bike, but a cheap bike. Likely though, a very usable bike which doesn't need a lot of upgrades to keep on rolling for a while. If you were going to get wheels for the Bianchi, get them for the new bike instead.

Not sure about FSA cranks and BB, I know Tektro brakes don't have a lot of fans but you were going to buy brakes anyway ...just the 105 brifters, cassette, and derailleurs would cost about $300 (I could look it up but won't, too lazy) and they are brand new.

if it were me I might buy the one and build the other because ... hey, it's good clean fun (right now I am finishing an '83 Cannondale, contemplating (and collecting parts for) a dinosaur steel Raleigh frame, and trying to decide if I'd rather buy a couple decent used bikes or go the Chinese carbon route. No, I won't take my medication.)

That Bianchi is one sweet-looking bike. I'd build it for the road because I don't have any gravel roads around here, but I'd bet (so long as you aren't trying serious MTB trails) that bike would be a blast on dirt. Looks like there is tire clearance. (Don't worry about people who say "it might not work on dirt." If your main aim is fun, you will have fun. If you want to race for trophies, you should buy a much more expensive bike.)

Spread it to 130 or 135 and have a ball---and if it breaks while you were out having fun, you would still have the new bike for tours and organized races.

Figure you could do both for $1500, and you could do the Bianchi in bits and pieces--scavenge parts off smaller/trashed bikes and stuff. I'd bet in Colorado you can go to any major city's suburbs the night before trash day and pick up trashed kids' bikes with some decent components, and I;'d bet yard sales out that way are insane.

Since you aren't afraid to wrench, check Craigslist. I bet a state with cycling culture like Colorado's would have tons of used or wrecked bikes with salvageable parts, used bikes you could almost ride on tours or trails right away ... all kinds of stuff.

Either way, plan on spending $600-$800 for the bike, whichever way you go.
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Old 11-04-15, 04:46 PM
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If you have 126mm dropout, this will not be a great touring bike regardless of what you do.

But, if you have not done any bike touring and want to try it, buy some good racks and panniers, put the racks on the bike and give it a go.

You will quickly decide that your gearing is too high when you try to climb hills. You could buy an inexpensive compact double crank for a slightly lower lowest gear, or a triple for even a lower lowest gear. From your photos, I do not know if it has a long cage rear derailleur. If not you would need that too if you get a different crank with smaller chainrings. I bought a new Vuelta double compact crank on Amazon a couple years ago, good price and square taper. I assume you have a square taper bottom bracket that it would fit on.

After your first couple trips, you may decide you want fenders. Get them too. But do not cut anything shorter, you may want to put those fenders on a different bike.

Then after a few more trips, you will know what you really want for touring. And get a different bike that meets that criteria. Then put your racks and fenders on that new bike. You will only be out the cost of the crank on this older bike. And, with a new crank you might decide that you like having it as a road bike.
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Old 11-04-15, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
If you have 126mm dropout, this will not be a great touring bike regardless of what you do.
Sheldon Brown and a 2x4 strongly disagree that one must retain that 126-mm spacing on a steel-framed bike.

Also ... plenty of people have toured and do tour on bikes with 126 mm dropouts---seeing as that was all there was once the industry moved up from the 120-mm standard. Three by six was considered quite adequate for touring--and this gentleman already mentioned he was willing to go all the down to a 42-32-22 MTB crank if needed (I find a 48-38-28 with a 14-34 is fine for most touring--or it was back when I had a working heart.)

He says he doesn't ride road any more and is intrigued by two-day tours, gravel paths, and maybe cyclocross racing. I see no reason why he couldn't make the basic frame into a bike suited for any of that.

I did 1100 miles in 11 days, fully loaded, on an old Schwinn frame (not a Varsity, thankfully) which had nothing left but frame and fork--but was built entirely (except rear wheel) from yard sales and trash-picked bikes. Bought a rear rack, built my own front rack, sewed my own front bags. Cold-forged a front derailleur mount on my garage floor. And Never held up the group even on the last hill of a day of endless hills. That bike was bomb-proof. (126-mm dropouts, by the way.)

We get so used to thinking that we need special gear, we forget that people used to ride 250-mile Tour de France stages on single-speeds with a couple tires wrapped around their chests.

The decision to build a cyclocross/touring Bianchi comes down to how he wants to spend his time and money. Whether or not he could do it and make it work is Not a question. Whether he wants to, is.

I see from your list of bikes, you have some nice machinery. Maybe you could answer some of the specific questions he asked about brakes, gearing, and whatnot, so he could make up a purchase list, price stuff, and see if he thought it was worth it?

Sorry to preach---but your sermon seemed to have hit one of my nerves.

Last edited by Maelochs; 11-04-15 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 11-04-15, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
...
Sorry to preach---but your sermon seemed to have hit one of my nerves.
When I said 126mm dropouts prevented this from being a great touring bike, maybe I should have used upper case letters for the word great. It certainly could be a good touring bike, but I think not great.

And, if you looked at the rest of my post you will see that I encouraged him to try touring on that bike. Most other commenters above did not suggest trying touring on the bike like I did.

I tried to spread a frame this past summer, 120mm frame that I wanted to spread to 126mm. I gave up trying, it felt like I was trying to bend a leaf spring on a car. Maybe the Columbus tubing on my frame was more springy, but it certainly did not want to take a change of shape.
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Old 11-04-15, 09:47 PM
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I'd think about just adding in a touring/MTB triple crankset to get over hills easier. Other stuff on list seems like too much hassle/expense vs scanning for online bargains for complete bike. With your focus on off-road perhaps a used steel hardtail MTB would be cheap & functional. Some of 'em have double front/rear eyelets for racks/fenders.
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Old 11-05-15, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan
I'd think about just adding in a touring/MTB triple crankset to get over hills easier. Other stuff on list seems like too much hassle/expense vs scanning for online bargains for complete bike. With your focus on off-road perhaps a used steel hardtail MTB would be cheap & functional. Some of 'em have double front/rear eyelets for racks/fenders.
Good thinking.

Change the gearing and maybe the tires and see how it feels (might need a longer BB, but otherwise everything else should work.) Then try a couple all-day rides, see what you think.

Lots of good rigid MTBs to be had via Craigslist/classified which might need less mods/less investment and offer more returns (longer wheelbase, more tire clearance, better geometry (a little more upright and a little less twitchy steering.))

Question is, would building the Bianchi be a labor of love worth it just to do it, or is the goal to do the tours/cyclocross and the bike is irrelevant?

The Bianchi could definitely be rebuilt, but might be better of sold and replaced with a starter bike more bent towards offroad/touring, or a new bike specific you your needs.

Fits in with Tourist in MSN's advice---
Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
After your first couple trips ... you will know what you really want for touring. And get a different bike that meets that criteria. Then put your racks and fenders on that new bike. You will only be out the cost of the crank on this older bike. And, with a new crank you might decide that you like having it as a road bike.
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Old 11-05-15, 05:57 AM
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When I got back into touring in 2006 I contemplated rebuilding my 1970 ten-speed as a tourer, but realized the cost was nearly what a modern touring bike costs and still end up with an old franken-bike. Instead I bought a rock-solid modern touring bike (on sale), and stripped the ten-speed into a fixed-gear. Looking back I'm very glad with my decision.
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Old 11-05-15, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Wrightjoseph
....I was drinking beer in the garage the other day...
why change anything? if it works, it's comfortable, ride it.

you dinna say how much you'd carry, i assume minimal if you'll be staying
in hotels. get a rear rack and some small bags.

get some wider tires with a bit more tread....27*1-1/4.

go ride.
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Old 11-05-15, 07:32 AM
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I have an old 7 speed touring bike that I wasn't using, but still held a lot of sentimental value for me. A bunch of years ago I considered changing things on it, but realized that it would entail too much money, so just ended up redoing the simple stuff, new hoods, all new cables and housings, bar tape--and just left it at that. Nice to see it all made up again, but starting to get into changing down tube shifters for brifters or bar end shifters, changing out the rear end to wider, diff rear wheel, cassettes, maybe derailleur...it all just adds up to a bunch of money that could go towards buying even a fairly new used bike in good shape.

do what you want, but just be aware of what changes cost.

I actually ride my old bike on the trainer in the winter now, original old gel seat and all....nice to have it around but one day may sell it (been saying that for over ten years though....)
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Old 11-05-15, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Wrightjoseph
So I have this idea. I have an older Bianchi road bike that I don't ride much any more. <snip>
Anything else I should think of? Is this doable?
It's doable but IMO a waste of money. That bike is still going to be a short wheelbase race bike. If you want a touring bicycle you'd be far better off buying one. For less money you'd should be able to buy an old trek or univega specialissima or something appropriate.

If you want to only do over-nighter type tours, and a little fire trail riding, that bike is more or less fine as is. Simply put on a new freewheel with lower gears, a rack, some 28c tires - or maybe 32 if they fit, and go. Pack light.
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Old 11-05-15, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by djb
I have an old 7 speed touring bike that I wasn't using, but still held a lot of sentimental value for me. ...
If the issue is sentimental value or enjoying using something you have used in the past, that makes it a bit different. In that case, make the modifications.

Earlier this year I bought a used set of wheels that use clinchers to put on a vintage Italian racing bike that I had put is storage a couple decades ago after I got too frustrated with tubular tires. And, repainted the frame, new triple crank, new wider bars, modern brake levers & interrupter levers, threadless stem on quill to threadless adapter, etc. I still hate downtube friction shifters, but I like riding the bike. Frame and most components from 1961, the used wheels I put on it are from the 1980s, and as noted some parts are modern.

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Old 11-05-15, 05:44 PM
  #24  
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Ya, I'm perfectly happy with it as is, and was happy keeping the amount put into it at a minimum. Plus it's kinda fun shifting gears reaching down while watching The Walking Dead or something...
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Old 11-05-15, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Earlier this year I bought a used set of wheels that use clinchers to put on a vintage Italian racing bike that I had put is storage a couple decades ago
What a beauty.

Have you considered indexed downtube shifters?

Me, I am spoiled--once I used brifters I cannot go back, but indexed downtube shifters (at least for the back) ought to be a cheap and easy upgrade.
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