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-   -   Front panniers? (https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1041041-front-panniers.html)

Squeezebox 12-09-15 12:45 PM

Front panniers?
 
Has anyone done wind tunnel tests on front racks and front panniers to see how much turbulence and drag they create?

alan s 12-09-15 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by Squeezebox (Post 18377528)
Has anyone done wind tunnel tests on front racks and front panniers to see how much turbulence and drag they create?

Compared to what?

Squeezebox 12-09-15 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by alan s (Post 18377592)
Compared to what?

DUH!! as compared to no front rack and no front panniers.

boomhauer 12-09-15 02:00 PM

Compared to no front panniers. I felt a lot of drag with front panniers. It "seemed " like it took a couple miles per hour off my speed in a head wind. I don't think I will ever try it again. Just a bad feeling, I guess .

alan s 12-09-15 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by Squeezebox (Post 18377716)
DUH!! as compared to no front rack and no front panniers.

Most people aren't trying to decide between carrying stuff and not carrying stuff. I assumed you were looking for relative comparisons to other means of carrying stuff, such as:

rear panniers
trunk bag
handlebar roll
frame bag
backpack
and any other way you can think of carrying stuff on your bike

So you are looking for the amount of drag created by an object of what dimensions? When you have this information, of what use will it be to you?

Leebo 12-09-15 02:21 PM

Are you racing? At 6'4", I'm not exactly aero.

Squeezebox 12-10-15 01:32 AM

Sorry for the double post. Let's let this one die.

azza_333 12-10-15 01:52 AM


Originally Posted by Squeezebox (Post 18377716)
DUH!! as compared to no front rack and no front panniers.

This doesn't answer you question but I hope it helps. You will always be at an aero disadvantage with panniers front or rear, handle bar bags, and even seat post bags. You seem to be after light and aero for touring, my solution to the same problem is ditch the racks and panniers altogether, and go with a top tube bag, frame bag, and a seat bag, that set up will get you as aero and light as possible whilst bike touring, and will allow you to carry 20L of gear, that should be more that enough space to carry everything you need, myself I take 12L of gear on long 2 month tours including tent and sleeping bag.

alan s 12-10-15 09:43 AM

No wind tunnel testing needed. The more in line your bags are with your bike and body, the better. If you look at frontal area, there is really no additional exposure from a handlebar bag, frame bag, saddle bag, backpack (unless you are in the drops) or trunk bag. As wind angle increases, that is less true. The worst for aerodynamics are panniers, either front or rear, because they are almost completely exposed to the wind. The larger the pannier, the greater the resistance, regardless of location.

This is a fairly decent aerodynamic setup. The handlebar roll is exposed to the wind (need to make it narrower), but the legs and other bags are in the slipstream.
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...C056EAB197.jpg

pdlamb 12-10-15 10:15 AM

Jan Heine did some testing in a wind tunnel for Bicycle Quarterly some years back. IIRC, one of the configurations he compared used panniers. If you're curious enough to check his web site, I think all the back issues are still available for sale.

Squeezebox 12-10-15 03:09 PM


Originally Posted by azza_333 (Post 18378926)
This doesn't answer you question but I hope it helps. You will always be at an aero disadvantage with panniers front or rear, handle bar bags, and even seat post bags. You seem to be after light and aero for touring, my solution to the same problem is ditch the racks and panniers altogether, and go with a top tube bag, frame bag, and a seat bag, that set up will get you as aero and light as possible whilst bike touring, and will allow you to carry 20L of gear, that should be more that enough space to carry everything you need, myself I take 12L of gear on long 2 month tours including tent and sleeping bag.

Any chance you could post your gear list? Or PM me with it?

azza_333 12-11-15 04:52 AM


Originally Posted by Squeezebox (Post 18380298)
Any chance you could post your gear list? Or PM me with it?

The following is a 8 week no cooking tour I am planning todo in Japan. Its also in the warmer months, so no cold weather gear is required, and I wont bother to take rain gear, because if your wet but the wethers still hot who cares about keeping dry.

[TABLE="width: 412"]
[TR]
[TD]Bike(stuff on the bike):[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]bell[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1L water bottle and binon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]rear/front LED lights[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GPS (Garmin Edge Touring Plus)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]bike pump (compact with gague)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12L seat bag:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Shelter (Big Sky Soul 1P)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]sleeping bag (Sea To Summit Travveler 1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]sleeping matt (Sea to Summit Ultralight sleeping mat un insulated)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]jersey,socks,undies,skins (1 complete change of clothes for on/off the bike)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]singlet[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rider(whats on me):[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]long sleeve jersey[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]shorts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]running tights[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]undies[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]socks[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]runners[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]helmet[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]hat[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sunglasses[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gloves[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Frame Bag: (Homemade)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]passport[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1 spare tube[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]shaver [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]100ml toothpaste, toothbrush cut in half[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]tent poles (the frame bag is the only place they will fit)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]chain lube and rag
100ml body wash (can also be used for washing clothes in a sink)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Toptube bag:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2 port japanese USB charger, 1 Short Mini USB cable(GPS), 1 Short Miro USB cable(Phone,Di2)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mobile Phone & AA power bank(phone has 23mega pixel camera, so I dont take a camera, and power bank is for emergency power to the phone or to charge my Di2)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]shower cap (to protect my B17 from rain)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]100ml sunscreen[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]bike lock & brake Strap[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Money[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rear Triangle bag:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]multitool (Topeak Alien Small)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Punture kit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tyre leavers[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I have a place to stay in Tokyo so I will be storing the following there before I start my trip, and I will have access to it when I reach Tokyo(roughly half way)
[TABLE="width: 394"]
[TR]
[TD]Nail clippers/tweesers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Change of casual clothes/shoes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sun screen[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]shaver charger/240V adapter[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tooth Brush (cut in half)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Chamios cream (just in case)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]assorted spaces bolts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Chain remover quicklink tool[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]spare chain, quick links[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Spare Brake Pads, and bleed kit stuff[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2 Spare folding Tyres[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


If you really want to carry less gear and you are going with some one do what I do, and organise with the other person not to take doubles of things. When I tour with some one since I am 9 times out of 10 the stronger rider, I tell the other person not to bother carrying a pump, tyre levers, multi tool, a bike lock(since one bike lock is normally long enough for 2 bikes), chain lube and rag, or a GPS/navigation.

azza_333 12-11-15 05:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Not that I am saying that alan s photo of a bike packing set-up crap, its a pretty sweet looking rig, but I do feel that it is on the heavy/bulk side, mostly because I feel that handle bar rolls and things strapped to the outside of a seatpackis a sign you are over packing. I don't currently have any photos of all of my bike bags on my bike, but I have edited a photo so show where my bike bags go, the packing list I wrote above using these bike bags leaves a decent amount of room in the bags for random crap I might pick up along the way.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=492790
A lot of people use a small bag(like a top tube bag) between the seat post and the top tube(just under the nose of the saddle) I find although you can carry more there, it restricts you ability to stand over the bike when stopped, so as seen in the photo I made a small bag to fit in the rear triangle space.

alan s 12-11-15 06:31 AM


Originally Posted by azza_333 (Post 18381548)
Not that I am saying that alan s photo of a bike packing set-up crap, its a pretty sweet looking rig, but I do feel that it is on the heavy/bulk side, mostly because I feel that handle bar rolls and things strapped to the outside of a seatpackis a sign you are over packing. I don't currently have any photos of all of my bike bags on my bike, but I have edited a photo so show where my bike bags go, the packing list I wrote above using these bike bags leaves a decent amount of room in the bags for random crap I might pick up along the way.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=492790
A lot of people use a small bag(like a top tube bag) between the seat post and the top tube(just under the nose of the saddle) I find although you can carry more there, it restricts you ability to stand over the bike when stopped, so as seen in the photo I made a small bag to fit in the rear triangle space.

That photo was from a test run the other day. I loaded the bike to the max capacity to make sure everything works and it handles well. I have a 2 person tent, 15 degree sleeping bag, full inflatable pad, cooking gear and rain gear, in addition to all the items you carry. Everything worked out great, the bike handles very well on twisty, winding trails, and all the gear is held securely. My goal is not UL, but a reduction in weight and better aerodynamics. The real tour will be in a couple weeks.

Trueblood 12-12-15 09:49 PM

These claim to be 7% faster - Angletech Techwind Panniers : Angletech/CycleDifferent Modeled after the old Tailwind panniers. They seem VERY expensive.


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