Originally Posted by shelbyfv (Post 18385400)

Framesaver is not expensive and the process takes only a few minutes. Good instructions come with the can. A little tape and some paper towels, spray and flip, it's easy. If you do it, you won't have to wonder if you should have.

Originally Posted by mdilthey (Post 18385231)

All,

In a moment of weakness aided by Surly's ongoing sale on this year's now apparently outdated fleet, I am now the owner of a Surly Pugsley. The original, hideous, hacked-together expedition fatbike. Fun!


I got this bike for two places: The beach and the snow. Both of which, in New England, mean a lot of salt and corrosion. I am considering a framesaver treatment for my frame, but I have a couple of questions:

1. How difficult/long is the Framesaver process? What if I do a halfway job, like a quick hit in the BB shell and the head/seat tubes plus wherever I can get the spray nozzle in? I don't really want to tape everything off and roll oil around inside the frame to evenly coat everything. I don't see the need to Mona Lisa the project, but you could convince me otherwise.

2. Do I need to let it dry unbuilt, or can I hit the bike with the FS and then finish building?

3. Is framesaver a paranoia? Will my frame develop a nice inner patina and cease rusting? Is surly's ED Treatment enough? Will I lose the bike in five years to rust-aided cracks if I don't treat it and use it in the slush? I have no interest in riding it through the ocean tide, and my maintenance on all components is regular and responsible.

Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN (Post 18385815)

I have done it on some bikes, not on others.

If a bike might be exposed to salt, I think it is a pretty good idea. My winter bike is not a beater, it is my Rohloff expedition bike. I frame savered it before I built it up. I have a pair of SPD shoes I wear in winter, other shoes in summer. The cleats on my winter shoes are a block of rust, and the other shoes have almost no rust on the cleats. Also the cleat springs on pedals that I use in winter are badly rusted. That is a pretty good sign of what road salt will do.

I bought an old Bridgestone a few years ago at a garage sale, it had been stored outside for over a decade, I am judging the storage period based on the diameter of the tree that was growing up through the frame. (Owner had to get out a sawsall to cut down the tree so I could buy the bike.) Took about a day to get the bad bottom bracket out of it, but once I did I found a lot of rust powder in it. In the chainstays there were some bits of rust coming out, but overall I felt that the frame was probably still sound enough to use as an errand bike. I have been using that bike now for years without a problem. Since I store that one outside I stripped it down and frame savered it. But in this case I would have had to strip all parts off anyway, every bearing needed grease, most plastic and rubber parts needed replacement, etc.

I have another bike that was badly abused and was often stored wet before I bought it. Much of the chrome platting on the exterior tubing was flaking off due to rust under the chrome. But the interior of the frame tubes where I could see inside looks great, that bike is a early 1960s Columbus tubing racing frame, the Columbus tubing appears to be naturally rust resistant.

But I have seen other frames that were carefully cared for and rusted out in a decade and a half. I think it is a roll of the dice if you got a frame that is prone to rust or not.



You need to move the frame around a lot to get everything coated, so if you do it you likely will want to remove everything off the bike first.

I never really know if I got enough frame saver inside each tube because the seat tube and head tube are the only tubes you can see inside to judge how well you got it covered. Also did fork steerer tube interior and I can see in there.

If you get framesaver somewhere you did not want it and find it later, like exterior paint, I have used coleman stove fuel to clean off the frame saver.

I like to let it sit for a couple days before I put stuff back together. It stinks, so I do that outside for the first day. Bottom bracket, I like to clean off the threads with stove fuel and then use grease on my bottom bracket instead. I don't want the frame saver to harden and act like glue holding things like that in the frame later.

I just frame savered a new frame a week ago, not because I expect that bike to get that wet, more because I just got it and figured why not? But if you have the bike assembled, then it is a tougher call.

Here is a new idea. When I received my Thorn Nomad frame a couple years ago (this is my Rohloff Expedition bike), I was really surprised to see inside the head tube that someone had put a piece of tape over the openings into the down tube and top tube. I had to remove the tape to get frame saver in there. At first I thought that was odd, but the more I thought about it, I thought it was pretty neat. It looked just like regular tape, like masking tape. Water can get into the the headtube by flowing down the outside of the steerer tube past the upper headset bearing. Then that water can go into (1) the top tube, (2) down tube or (3) out the bottom headset bearing and out of the frame. With that tape, that forced any such water to only go down out the bottom bearing and not into other frame tubes. I am not disassembling my other bikes to install that tape, but when I open up a head tube in other bikes for other reasons, I am adding the tape.

More info here:

The Velo ORANGE Blog: Frame Saving and Rust

Originally Posted by mdilthey (Post 18386044)

Thanks for all the info, Tourist. Will be reading this over a couple of times before my frame comes in to make a decision!

Originally Posted by loky1179 (Post 18386240)

If you do, just remember to soak any cleanup rags in water and dispose of. Danger of spontaneous combustion and all that. Hate to see you save your frame, just to burn down your house.

Originally Posted by Salamandrine (Post 18386224)

I generally treat my frames with LPS 3. At one time it was the best stuff around for this, but now I use it because it's easily available in your local hardware store and works well enough. I think this is fine for general purpose touring bikes, but if I knew I was going to be riding in or near salt water, I might do a bit more research.

Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 18386258)

Another one is AMSOil Heavy Duty Metal Protection. A can that will do 3 frames costs $8.

Edit: and a thought. Suppose you REALLY like this Pugsly? Is it OK that perhaps this bike you love dies in 10 years?

Ben

Originally Posted by CliffordK (Post 18386353)

I'm with the camp that my primary bike pre-dates all the modern frame savers by at least a decade or two. I do have rust on the outside, and I suppose also a layer of rust on the inside, but most of it is superficial, I think.

Here, we have no road salt, and it is not a marine environment, although we do get some winter moisture.

I probably won't start using the frame savers or internal treatments, although I might consider it if I was in a more salty environment.

I would consider something like WD-40 as great for a short-term treatment, but I would have to doubt its effectiveness for long-term treatment of years or decades.

My new "rain bike" is Titanium.

Originally Posted by mdilthey (Post 18386378)

The planned itinerary for my bike is ocean beaches, rain, snow, slush, road salt, and mud. I think I'd better do something.

The only thing stopping me is wondering if Surly's ED coating does enough of a good job to not warrant framesaver. Surly says "use frame saver" but I suspect that's a legal thing, since any rust on a missed spot or something would make them liable for a "truth in advertising" claim.

Originally Posted by fietsbob (Post 18386495)

Externalizing a cost is a way to sell for less .. Or make More without raising the cost .. Econ 101.

Factory is not in the same country as the frame saver is, or the QBP Warehouse

Originally Posted by CliffordK (Post 18386484)

I'm surprised they would recommend a treatment, rather than just doing it at the factory.

The issue is that the insides of the frame is likely untreated.