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Pacific coast run, am I making sense... Questions Question Questions

Old 12-15-15, 05:51 AM
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sprocketss
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Pacific coast run, am I making sense... Questions Question Questions

So couple of questions, I am now firming up my plans for the Pacific coast ride of my Southwest trip. What makes most sense to me is to take the Amtrak from Los Angeles to San Diego after visiting a friend in LA over the weekend, to then bike back to San Clemente. From San Clemente I would take the Metrolink train to San Bernardino. From there bike between one and two days two days into Joshua Tree National Park, I am contemplating spending three days in the park, is this about right? Is it worthwhile visiting the Salton Sea?

By the way, I came across this YouTube video which also included the route taken. Does this route in the link make sense?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR-6z7DHIjM

https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=h...AxNDUwMTY4MTY4

From there I move on to Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon National Park, I again plan around three days camping in the park. After that, biking back to Phoenix for my flight.

The questions are, 1) how is baggage handled on the Metrolink trains. Visiting their site, I understand you can bring your bike onto the train, but then you have to also account for all the panniers. Is there a dedicated place on the train where you can park your gear?

Can someone clarify camping on public land in cities and towns, for example firehouses and public parks. Another option would be couchsurfing or warmshowers, in the bigger cities and towns there appears to be some hostels I could check out. But I am on a tight budget, so I have to watch where I spend my discretionary money, so camping on BLM land, stealth camping and also camping in public spaces is what I'm eyeing.
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Old 12-15-15, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by sprocketss View Post
Can someone clarify camping on public land in cities and towns, for example firehouses and public parks.
Local ordinances, although I have never heard of firehouses described as "public land."
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Old 12-15-15, 08:49 AM
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The Metrolink trains have "bike cars". On the lower level of the car there are seats on just one side, with the other side of the car open for bikes in 4 sections separated by a bar. Each of these cars can accommodate maybe 16 bikes parked 4x4, so unless the car is already full you should not have a problem. You simply walk aboard the train rolling your bike with you. Park the bike to one side, fasten one of the car's retaining straps around the top tube and then sit down across the aisle from it. I believe you can catch the Metrolink as far south as Oceanside and you can get a direct train to San Berdoo as far south as Laguna Niguel, so you have some options on your train/ride mix. Don't need advance reservations on Metrolink, you do on Amtrak to bring a bike.

Camping on various "public lands" in SoCal? Never seen it and most parks are posted no overnight. Unless you are truly homeless and camp under bridges then they leave you alone. But you might not enjoy the company there. Good luck.
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Old 12-15-15, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sprocketss View Post
Can someone clarify camping on public land in cities and towns, for example firehouses and public parks. ....
small towns.......head for the sheriff's office. they can tell you safe (and legal!) spots
to set up camp. they often will allow cyclists to pitch a tent in the local park overnight.

sure, you could ask at a firehouse. church properties are also possible.
maybe even schoolyards on weekends.

Last edited by saddlesores; 12-15-15 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 12-15-15, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sprocketss View Post
From there bike between one and two days two days into Joshua Tree National Park, I am contemplating spending three days in the park, is this about right? Is it worthwhile visiting the Salton Sea?
I think so myself, but others find it gross. The Salton Sea is very cool, in a big, decrepit and smelly sort of way. You can actually see it from Joshua Tree, and it's a relatively short downhill run to get there.

AFA camping at Joshua Tree, Jumbo rocks and the surrounding area looks really cool, but the bees are incredibly annoying during the summer. IMO, ride through, but don't stay there. Cottonwoods campground is much better, plus there's water available.

I wouldn't recommend trying to stealth camp in any public park in socal. Once you get out of the urban areas that may be more feasible. If you plan ahead, there are plenty of state and regional parks with campsites for 'hike and bike'. You won't likely get turned away if you roll in.
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Old 12-15-15, 10:16 AM
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Grand canyon! Wow. Have a great trip.

Very hard to get campsites there unless you reserve long in advance. But, if you have the gear for wild camping, you can camp legally on National Forest Service land off of the park property. I do not know about North Rim, but South Rim there is a fire road off of the main road where you can go south a few hundred yards and be on Forest Service land.

Roads in the Southwest can go many miles without water, carry capacity. If hot weather, you might need to start before sunup on some days to avoid the worst of the heat.

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Old 12-15-15, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
...I do not know about North Rim, but South Rim there is a fire road off of the main road where you can go south a few hundred yards and be on Forest Service land....
Yep, that's the Grandview Tower area, about ten miles east of the rim village, and it's a great place to camp for free. No water--plan accordingly.

When is this trip? Flagstaff and the South Rim can be snowed in for days at a time through the winter months and into spring (it is right now, actually), and the North Rim is closed for the season. I used to live in Prescott, did quite a bit of warmshowers hosting there, and some tourists changed their Grand Canyon plans due to winter storms.
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Old 12-15-15, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewclaus View Post
Yep, that's the Grandview Tower area, about ten miles east of the rim village, and it's a great place to camp for free. No water--plan accordingly.

When is this trip? Flagstaff and the South Rim can be snowed in for days at a time through the winter months and into spring (it is right now, actually), and the North Rim is closed for the season. I used to live in Prescott, did quite a bit of warmshowers hosting there, and some tourists changed their Grand Canyon plans due to winter storms.
I believe the OP is planning to do it in Feb-March. I've advised him to have alternate plans for a low-elevation route (Death Valley? can't get much lower!) in case the higher elevations are infeasible.
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Old 12-15-15, 08:44 PM
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If you don't mind it a bit funky, the Salton Sea and surrounding area is worth seeing. If you do it don't miss Niland, CA and Salvation Mountain. El Centro and surrounding area is the carne asada capitol of the world.

Death Valley is a very cool place to visit, and would be great at bicycle pace if you do end up altering your plans.
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Old 12-15-15, 09:11 PM
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check out Slab City in Niland, California
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Old 12-16-15, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Grand canyon! Wow. Have a great trip.

Very hard to get campsites there unless you reserve long in advance. But, if you have the gear for wild camping, you can camp legally on National Forest Service land off of the park property. I do not know about North Rim, but South Rim there is a fire road off of the main road where you can go south a few hundred yards and be on Forest Service land.

Theres a hiker biker site at the south rim, so no worries on a reservation. I think it's 7 bucks a night and it's quite nice. As you stated it's also surrounded by national forest.

dispersed camping is legal on Blm and national forest lands. When stealth camping in California you gotta be a little more slick than in some other areas of the country. Cops and rangers are fairly naziish out here. Have a great trip.

* saw your planning on going pretty early in the year both flagstaff and the Grand Canyon are at around 7000 ft elevation and nighttime lows can be in the low 20s to teens that time of year. Gear yourself accordingly.

Last edited by psy; 12-16-15 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 12-16-15, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
small towns.......head for the sheriff's office. they can tell you safe (and legal!) spots
to set up camp. they often will allow cyclists to pitch a tent in the local park overnight.

sure, you could ask at a firehouse. church properties are also possible.
maybe even schoolyards on weekends.
Thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
AFA camping at Joshua Tree, Jumbo rocks and the surrounding area looks really cool, but the bees are incredibly annoying during the summer. IMO, ride through, but don't stay there. Cottonwoods campground is much better, plus there's water available.
Joshua Tree will be a highlight of my tour and I intend to spend a couple of days there exploring. Thanks for pointing out Cottonwoods campground.

Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Grand canyon! Wow. Have a great trip.

Very hard to get campsites there unless you reserve long in advance. But, if you have the gear for wild camping, you can camp legally on National Forest Service land off of the park property. I do not know about North Rim, but South Rim there is a fire road off of the main road where you can go south a few hundred yards and be on Forest Service land.

Roads in the Southwest can go many miles without water, carry capacity. If hot weather, you might need to start before sunup on some days to avoid the worst of the heat.
I have already reserved 2 nights at the Mather campground to tent camp, (March 1st and 2nd), but I may arrive early, (before March 1st it is first come, first served), depending on the sky gods. Whether I bike all up, or take the shuttle bus, the GC will be another highlight of the tour/vacation camp/hike. I'm Canadian so I feel I will be prepared for the weather and dress appropriately.

Originally Posted by andrewclaus View Post
Yep, that's the Grandview Tower area, about ten miles east of the rim village, and it's a great place to camp for free. No water--plan accordingly.

When is this trip? Flagstaff and the South Rim can be snowed in for days at a time through the winter months and into spring (it is right now, actually), and the North Rim is closed for the season. I used to live in Prescott, did quite a bit of warmshowers hosting there, and some tourists changed their Grand Canyon plans due to winter storms.
Andrew, I will be in and around the GCNP around the end of February to early March, it is certainly a weather lottery, but I do not know when I will be this way again, so I do plan to hike and camp the Grand Canyon National park, if you factor in an El Nino year, it could be even more stormy. Fingers crossed, I do not have to change my plans.

Originally Posted by stevepusser View Post
I believe the OP is planning to do it in Feb-March. I've advised him to have alternate plans for a low-elevation route (Death Valley? can't get much lower!) in case the higher elevations are infeasible.
Death Valley looks awesome! Definitely an alternative.

Originally Posted by timdow View Post
If you don't mind it a bit funky, the Salton Sea and surrounding area is worth seeing. If you do it don't miss Niland, CA and Salvation Mountain. El Centro and surrounding area is the carne asada capitol of the world.

Death Valley is a very cool place to visit, and would be great at bicycle pace if you do end up altering your plans.
Tim, Death Valley is definitely on the short list, wow, I had never heard of Salvation Mountain, hard on the eyes .

Originally Posted by Biketouringhobo View Post
check out Slab City in Niland, California
I have heard about Slab City, sounds like a cool place.
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Old 12-16-15, 01:14 AM
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sproketts, I suggest you check out CGOAB, and search for the locales you are looking to ride. Where "stealth" camping might be an issue I read a lot about hiker/biker sites for cheap on the left coast.
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Old 12-16-15, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sprocketss View Post
...
I have already reserved 2 nights at the Mather campground to tent camp, (March 1st and 2nd), but I may arrive early, (before March 1st it is first come, first served), depending on the sky gods. Whether I bike all up, or take the shuttle bus, the GC will be another highlight of the tour/vacation camp/hike. I'm Canadian so I feel I will be prepared for the weather and dress appropriately.
....
You are going to have a great trip. I was there in mid-April 2014, weather was comfortably cool.
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Old 12-16-15, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sprocketss View Post
Joshua Tree will be a highlight of my tour and I intend to spend a couple of days there exploring. Thanks for pointing out Cottonwoods campground.
Since you are going in the spring, the bees won't be at their worst, and you could comfortably camp wherever. Good idea to ask the rangers about conditions.

Do make sure you have sufficient water carrying capacity, and some electrolyte powder. I carry 4-5+ liters when I go desert hiking.
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Old 12-16-15, 02:07 PM
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http://www.sdmts.com/sites/all/theme...dg/pdf/888.pdf
You can get out of San Diego without going through LA. Maybe take a bus to Julian and ride down to Anza Borrego and the Salton Sea. Then up to Joshua Tree. Not much water in Joshua Tree. Did you know about riding across camp Pendleton, (hot and dry), to get to San clemente?

Stealth camping in the cities of Southern California is not for me. Away from the cities, sure why not.
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Old 12-16-15, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisx View Post
http://www.sdmts.com/sites/all/theme...dg/pdf/888.pdf
You can get out of San Diego without going through LA. Maybe take a bus to Julian and ride down to Anza Borrego and the Salton Sea. Then up to Joshua Tree. Not much water in Joshua Tree. Did you know about riding across camp Pendleton, (hot and dry), to get to San clemente?

Stealth camping in the cities of Southern California is not for me. Away from the cities, sure why not.
Chris, thanks for the link to the pdf, sussing the myriad of options from afar has been a challenge for me, esp. taking in consideration the rules and regs, since I will have to take a bike and what would be considered "checked" baggage with all my gear. I was not too precise with my questions, I will take advantage of the local ordinances regarding tenting in small towns, I do not think I would feel safe doing that in the larger burbs.
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Old 12-16-15, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by punkncat View Post
sproketts, I suggest you check out CGOAB, and search for the locales you are looking to ride. Where "stealth" camping might be an issue I read a lot about hiker/biker sites for cheap on the left coast.
Thanks for your suggestion, another great site to check free or cheap camping sites is called https://freecampsites.net/

Cheers
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Old 12-16-15, 04:26 PM
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If the weather is looking iffy at higher elevations such as Joshua Tree, heading via your own power or via the bus to Anza-Borrego/Salton Trough is a good alternative. There are hike and bike sites at the Palm Canyon campground https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4I5WpnVnmI just outside of the small resort town of Borrego Springs, plus some other developed and undeveloped campgrounds in the park. It's also legal to just free camp anywhere in the park outside the developed areas, and the park has plenty of interesting badlands, gorges, and bouldery mountains that are quite scenic and very cool to hike through, though any unpaved roads are likely to be quite sandy--it may be worth pushing your bike up one such as Split Mountain Gorge, which cuts through an entire range of hills to a geologic wonderland of erosion and fossils on the other side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gxrEefoaAc

There's also a county campground surrounded by the state park which has hot springs and a spa pool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7B1ZH9Dvxk

They have a off and on-again hike and bike site program at some SD county parks, but if they don't have sites available, you can also free camp outside in the state park and walk in to use the hot pools.

Heading south from the park on S2, you can find free camping at Octillo https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/...id=406953&v=6b, or head east and use an RV park in Seely. There's an interesting artesian hot well just east of Holtville under I-8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9y-0BzBZ8c

Then you could head north along the east shore of the Salton Sea (mud volcanoes and more hot springs along the San Andreas fault!)
http://losangelesswimmin.com/2011/10...y-hot-springs/

towards the Colorado River at Palo Verde and towards Death Valley.

And beware of using Google Maps for bike routing out in the desert, since it will happily send you over a rugged mountain range up unpaved roads that are buried a foot deep in loose sand.

We need a new video meme for cyclists called "Thanks, Google Maps!"--though it may already exist...

Last edited by stevepusser; 12-16-15 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 12-17-15, 02:31 PM
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I've just done part of the route you're planning to. I began in Oceanside, biked down to San Diego, went to the Research Center near the border, then headed east (Otay Ranch area) and out of SD across Rt. 94 to Ocatillo. Took Rt. 98 to Calexico (nice border town, believe it or not), then headed north to Salton Sea. Biked around the eastern side and my plan was to finish the tour at Joshua Tree, but I discovered that the campsites are $15/night (entrance for cyclists is $10) and that was too much for me. Plus, a cold front came in the day I was to arrive, so I ended up finishing my tour at the North Shore State campground (which has the $5 hike/bike camping rate). I did go to Indio and then bike south on the western side of Salton Sea and back into Imperial County. There are 2 bike/hike state campgrounds along Hwy. 101 in the San Diego County area - one is the San Elijo campground ($10). Don't remember the other. I've only camped at a firehouse once, but would do it again in a small town. ALL of Imperial County is farm land and there is no grass here to be had. So my tent hasn't gone up except at lake - all other camping has been next to tall hay bales on farm land. Have had no problem whatsoever from the workers on the farms (I have yet to find the actual owner or farmer of a farm!). Up in Riverside County (down to Mecca), you can find date farms to camp on. I found 2 different ones that weren't really being maintained and camped there. Beware however that coyotes do live in the area as do racoons (no food in the tent!). Info on Metrolink sounds right from what I saw when I took the train without my bike. It is bike friendly and does end in Oceanside. From Oceanside to San Diego, you change trains because it's a different county and system. $15.50 for Metrolink, $5.50 for the San Diego length.

And just for all the nay-sayers out there, there are a few places that can be slept in SD County. Not necessarily easy to find, but I did do it a few times. Unfortunately, this entire state is scared of its own shadow and schools, churches, parks are usually enclosed by a fence making it near impossible to free camp. But it is possible.
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