azza_333

All these threads about UL lately have got me thinking what I can cut out of my gear. I already have a pretty lean gear list, but I was thinking a puncture repair kit do I really need to take one, I have used it once. I got a flat swapped to my spare tube, continued riding, repaired the spare tube over night, the next day rode past a bike shop and picked up a new spare tube and threw out the repaired one. I am considering ditching it from my Japan touring kit, since I will be able to find a shop that can sell me a new spare tube in every town (at most 60km away). I also only carry one spare tube on my Japan tours. What are every ones thoughts?

Dave Cutter

A half dozen press-on patches... and a stamp sized sanding/roughing thingy? That isn't a big savings. And whatever killed the flat tire was likely ran over by both of your tires.

I keep my spare tube in a large bag (folded around the new tube). When I have a rare flat I use the new tube and put the old dirty tube in the bag. If I have a 2nd flat before replacing the tube... at least I can patch the flat tube.

mstateglfr 

I would guess my patch kit weighs an ounce? Maybe?
Seems like the potential benefit outweighs the negative.

If a couple tubes pop on the same day, patch kit would help.
The downside is an extra ounce in weight.

tyrion

Depends where you ride. I've gotten 2 flats in an hour so a patch kit is about the last thing I'd cut.

azza_333

Fair enough, it stays on the list then.

shipwreck

Ive ended a tour with over ten patches on a tube, without throwing it out. And ive had two or three punctures on a bad day, so would have been up the creek without a good patch kit.

If nothing else a press on patch kit takes up so little space sometimes I cant find it in my saddle bag on my road bike without digging.

Most of my tubes were picked up from other people on group rides who cant be bothered to patch. If you do choose to buy a new tube every time, at least offer your old one to the shop where you buy the replacement.

azza_333

I didn't know about press on patches/glueless patches, I will have to buy a kit

MassiveD

And really, is it sensible to say you will never be more than 60K from a tube? I would carry a kitchen sink to avoid having to push my bike 60K. I would certainly carry patches and a pump to avoid the conversation where I explain for the next 60K why i didn't pack patches and a pump.

The thing about UL is one can improve one's standard of living by implementing the first 90% of the possible change. It is when it gets to this level that it starts to sound a little crazy, though I certainly think it is perfectly fair to raise the subject.

MassiveD

I have had good luck with them, myself. There was a recent thread though where various people said they always failed, which is not my experience, but was a little disconcerting. I actually carry a bit of both, but I normally reach for the PSA ones, and none of mine have failed.

It has also been my odd experience that one can drive through terrible junk for a 1000K, no problem, then I get several flats in one day, often not in a place where there are any noticeable problems, or because one just didn't clean up after the first flat.

azza_333

I was originally going to write 30km from a bike shop, since 90% of the trip the furthest I would be from a bike store, I only said 60km because of about a 5 day journey through the north where its more farming country so the towns are about 40km apart, so I said 60km to be on the safe side.

Miele Man

leave your patch kit at home and old Mr. Murphy is sure to strike. You'll pucture miles/kilometers from any shop and it'll probably be raining. Or the shop you're depending on to get a new tube from will be closed for some weird reason.

A patch kit is like insurance, you hope you never need it but when you do you're really glad you have it.

Cheers

saddlesores

you're looking in the wrong place to save weight here, buffy.

a michelin ultralight tube is 80 grams...almost three ounces!
a slime skab glueless repair kit only about 10 grams!

leave the tube behind.

.....and the tire lever too....you can use your cutoff toothbrush handle for that.

oooh, and maybe you can cut the valve stems down, too, save 5-6 grams.
just gotta superglue the valve portion deeper in...

azza_333

Phew, I was getting a bit worried for a little while then, no wanker comments had been post yet.

imi

I would buy a toothbrush with a tire lever handle!

Tourist in MSN

My last bike trip (car camping while mountain biking, not "touring"), had a valve stem come loose from the inner tube rubber. That is the type of failure that can't be patched. That is why I carry two tubes on bike tours instead of one. I also carry a patch kit. That said, I have not yet had a flat on a bike tour, but I have used pretty robust tires which apparently helped.

If I followed your logic, since I have not had a flat on a tour, I could leave the spare tubes, patches, tire levers at home. The same logic dictates I could leave the spare spokes and cassette puller home too. And the spare chain quick links. And the spare pair of M5 bolts. Just think, I could be so much faster that I could get to my destination at least 30 seconds faster every day if I left this stuff at home to lighten my load.

I could probably skip the pump too, that way I could save another 30 seconds every day with an even lighter load.

And, 90 percent of the stuff in my first aid kit never gets used, I could leave that behind too, that might be good for another 15 seconds every day.

Wow, I could save over a minute every day. Until that day comes when I need some of this stuff.

My first two tours had no rainy days, but I still carried rain gear on my third tour, and the rain gear came in handy on that tour, and on the fourth, and on the fifth, .... ..

azza_333

Thanks for the feedback, but I never said I wasn't going touring with out a spare tube, it was just about the patch kit, which I have decided to keep and swap to glueless patches. Also the type of touring I do is very different from yours, for me I have gotten my kit so light, its getting less about lightness, and more about reducing the volume of my gear. I could carry all the spares in the world, but I have to draw the line somewhere for me that line is at a spare tube and some patches, for you its on the carry more side.

The logic of ULighters is
Reduce gear/weight > to reduce bags/panniers > that further reduces weight > which should reduce the amount of failures > to reduce the amount of spares needed to be carried > And the cycle starts from the start again.

cyccommute 

If you are going to use that logic, then you shouldn't carry the tube...it has a huge volume...and you should carry the patch kit which has a smaller volume.

There is a giant hole in the middle of your logic. The statement: "...reduces weight > which should reduce the amount of failures >..." is a non sequitur. What kinds of failures? I've never had a flat because my bike was carrying too much weight. I've had flats due to glass, remnants of steel belted tires, 16 penny nails in the middle of the road, goatheads (lots and lots and lots of goatheads), snakebites because the tire pressure was too low or the tire was going flat and I hit something but never because of the weight that the bike was carrying.

The only other kinds of failures that I can think of that are weight related are frame failures or, perhaps, spoke and wheel failures. Frame failures are fairly rare and are, in my experience, are a manufacturing error and aren't related to the load the bike is carrying. And even the most heavily ladened bicycle tourist isn't going to carry a spare frame*. Wheel failures that aren't spoke related fall into a similar category as frame failures. Spoke failures can be avoided by building good strong wheels with good strong spokes rather than obsessing on "strong rims" because it's the spokes that break not the rim.

The best way to "to reduce the amount of spares needed to be carried" is to make sure the bike is functioning well before you set off on a trip. I'm not an ultralight road tourist (off-road is a different story) but I don't carry a lot of spare parts. I carry a fiber fix spoke which I haven't used in 4 tours (about 3000 miles) and I carry a patch kit and at least 2 extra tubes (sometimes up to 6, depending on whether or not I have to use stupid Continental tires but I avoid those like the plague). I don't carry spare cables or spare chains or spare tires or even spare brake pads. All of that kind of stuff has been checked and replaced if needed or is available along the way.


*This being the Bike Forums, I just know that someone is going to say that they carry a spare frame with them on every tour

staehpj1

I don't actually think that is the logic of most ULers. I know it isn't mine.

BTW, I'd definitely skip the tubes before I'd skip the patch kit, but many places that I tour that would be a bad idea. I guess if you tour where new tubes are never more than 20-50 miles down the road and you can hitch a ride you could get by. I always carry a patch kit and tubes. I do reduce weight by carrying light weight tubes in a size smaller than recommended for the tire. They are quite a bit lighter and easier to mount that way. I have not found the undersized ones to be failure prone, but they may need topping off more often.

timdow

You would probably be OK w/o patch kit, but it is cheap insurance.

veganbikes

I wouldn't take water bottles and cages just get a small clear plastic trash bag and a straw (cut down of course) and use that for water carrying. Just don't get the thick plastic you will probably lose about 2 watts carrying that extra weight ; )

Leebo

A more serious answer, the quick release lever works just fine.

Buffalo Buff

I carry a pretty damn minimal repair kit, and I've gone over 5,000 miles since my last flat, but I still carry a spare tube and a few patches on my tours.

If nothing else, for peace of mind. Hitch-hiking to the nearest town wouldn't be a big deal in most of the USA, but I'd rather bike that distance than drive it.

I carry 1 spare tube, 1 tire lever, a few applications of chain lube and half of a patch kit. If its a longer tour I might also bring a few hex keys, just in case.

I've only had one flat while touring. It made me laugh more than anything. 700 mile ride from my new home town to my old one to visit friends, and it happens in the last town outside of my destination.

Squeezebox

We could rework this conversation about your 1st aide kit also. Some just in case things are worth having. Still worth looking at anyway.
About the broken frame issue!
I will say that I have never seen a broken frame. But the more a bicycle costs the better the materials it's made of are, inc components, and the more workmanship into the integrity and strength of the bicycle. Better is stronger, Better is safer, Better is better.

Buffalo Buff

I tour without a FAK actually. Unless you want to count my 1/4 roll of electrical tape.

cyccommute 

Cost has little or nothing to do with durability. If anything, it's an inverse relationship. In other words, the more a component costs, the lighter and less durable the component is. I've broken 4 frames. All but one of them was a high end frame. I broke a 1984 Miyata Ridge Runner which was the top of the Miyata mountain bike line...well it was the only bike in Miyata's mountain line that year. I actually broke it several times. I broke the steer tube on the fork only to be told later that everyone should replace the fork on that bike because they were all breaking. The frame broke at the weld on the brake bridge but, again, this was a common break on that frame. And finally, I broke the frame at the dropout on the derailer side which was less common but by that time I was expecting the bike to break anyway. This was a pretty expensive bike for its day...$500...but it was new technology for the bicycle manufacturers and mountain bike riders were the test pilots for the company.

I also broke a Specialized Rock Combo which was a very high end bike for the Specialized line. It broke at a weld on the chain stay.

I also broke a 1998 Specialized Stumpjumper Pro M2 frame which, outside of the Skunk Works bikes from Specialized, was the very top of the line and was, in fact, being raced by professional level mountain bike riders. They tried to push the materials too far and make the bike too light and too stiff and ended up with frames that broke at the brake bridge weld. I'm fairly certain that that entire production run was replaced due to this flaw. It most certainly wasn't a cheap bike.

The last frame I broke was my fault for using a seatpost with a huge setback in an attempt to make the bike fit. If I had stuck with a traditional post, I never would have broken the frame. It was not an expensive frame...about $600 for the bike in 1999...but the frame was well made.

I've also broken many expensive components. Don't assume that just because it cost more to put on the bike that it will last longer.