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Ultralight Touring & Attitudes

Old 12-26-15, 02:11 AM
  #26  
azza_333
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Originally Posted by gregjones View Post
Yup.

If you are on the shoulder of the road I will stop to see if you need help. I you have a flat because "I bought two spare tubes instead of a patch kit" you'd best not be clean shaven. If you brought a razor, out of vanity, instead of a patch kit, out of necessity, you will still need help when I ride on.

Feel free to make it as hard on yourself as you care to.......don't expect me to save your ass if you carry vain items instead of emergency repair goods.
What you have said is quite valid and sensible, I am an ULer that tends to take only the bear minimum to get the job done, if **** Really hits the I will be short on what I need, but that's the point of touring for me, for everyone touring has a different purpose, for me its part endurance training, part holiday/sight seeing, but mostly to set out to achieve something that is not easy to achieve, I don't want it to be a walk in the park, if something major goes wrong I want to challenge to myself to adapt and overcome. Most of the older generation constantly complain about how my generation want everything and don't want to work to get it(I even complain about my own generation a lot of the time)

Common sense is still applied though, you are only asking for serious trouble if someone goes out with not enough water, or goes out in winter with a summer sleeping bag, travels rural areas with a lack of tools, and spares.
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Old 12-26-15, 07:46 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I just find it weird that anyone would describe the type of touring they do by how much their touring gear weighs. How about cotton pants touring; describing your tour by the fabric of your britches...
Dude, first of all, cotton weighs a ton. Secondly, if you wear it you will die of hypothermia when you get wet. But most important, why in the world are you even carrying pants when a bandana fashioned into a loin cloth works just as well and weighs far less?
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Old 12-26-15, 07:51 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Dude, first of all, cotton weighs a ton. Secondly, if you wear it you will die of hypothermia when you get wet. But most important, why in the world are you even carrying pants when a bandana fashioned into a loin cloth works just as well and weighs far less?
finally, someone who gets it....almost.

bandana? loincloth?

no weigh! 80 grams.

a thin dress sock only 30 grams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-26-15, 08:36 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
a thin dress sock only 30 grams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would need a fat tube sock. What does one weigh?
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Old 12-26-15, 08:44 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
Ultra Weenie Madness strikes again. Pfffft Makes less sense than ultra cheapskates. 55 lbs is too heavy ??? LOL
Time to get a Dutch IGH bike and grow some legs and perspective. Mine does centuries up to 125 day miles just fine, can avg 15 mph moving even.

My SE Asia hotel tour was certainly ultra heavy. 120+ lbs 74/ 76% of my weight. Took almost everything I take on car trips.
I was mostly doing 140 miles per 2 days when moving. 10 to 5 or 6 o'clock usually. Lost 2 mph i guess, NBD. Too heavy to steal. LOL
Clothes dryers were almost non-existant there.

Curious! what kind of stuff were you bringing to add up to that much wt.?
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Old 12-26-15, 08:58 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Yep, 10,000-12,000 miles if you have a job and are REALLY a committed and strong rider. The only guy I know personally who rides 15,000 to 16,000 miles/yr is retired and I expect is much stronger than any of us here.
20K+ even with a full time job is easy. First thing you learn to ride back and forth to work. I know of a guy who use to ride 62 miles each day round trip to work. Between that and doing different ultracylcing events throughout the year he was riding 22-23K miles each year...working as a college professor. Your first mission to riding 20K+ a year is to get rid of the car so everywhere you go you go by bicycle. I've ridden almost 77K in the past 4 years with almost 22K this year. Need less the 300 miles to hit both 77K and 22K. I haven't owned a car for over 5.5 years now. I'm single and live by myself. The shortest errand I have to run is 11.1 miles roundtrip to get to the library to get online. I'm online pretty much everyday. Sure a lot on miles are gravy miles during the annual bike trip, 8400 miles in under 3 months. I also had 21 consecutive days back in the spring this year where I rode 100 miles on a fixie. Since I gave up the car I also gave up the expenses so I don't have to work all the time to help support illegals/refugees/whatever else you want to call them. As well i don't have to support the creep in the white house or any of the rest of his fellow politician or their welfare/disabled citizens. Instead I ride the bike and do what I want to do.
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Old 12-26-15, 09:19 AM
  #32  
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There's a big difference between stupid light and UL not to mention lightweight.
It does happen on the Appalachian Trail where someone will not bring shelter ie tent or such. no rain gear etc, they will try to demand a spot in the shelter, beg for hot water, they didn't bring a stove. You know! stupid light.
UL the person is ready for what happens. shelter food maintenance. I'll wear crocs instead of tennis shoes 1 to 1 1/2 lb. wt saving. cooking stuff from backing not from my kitchen. appropriate clothing. Siberia vs. the Ozarks deserves thought and different lists and maybe even different bicycles.
If you are packing heavy for Siberia, but are doing the Ozarks in July, you did not do your homework.
If I were to do several months in Europe and then Africa. I would pick up my Africian stuff at the Embassy or wherever, right before I left for Africa. I certainly wouldn't drag it around Europe. Bring what you need now, adjust as you go along. Think about what you are doing, before after and during.
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Old 12-26-15, 09:27 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bikenh View Post
snip . . .. Since I gave up the car I also gave up the expenses so I don't have to work all the time to help support illegals/refugees/whatever else you want to call them. As well i don't have to support the creep in the white house or any of the rest of his fellow politician or their welfare/disabled citizens. snip . . .
Good to know that riding your bike makes you so enlightened and virtuous,
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Old 12-26-15, 09:53 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by bikenh View Post
Since I gave up the car I also gave up the expenses so I don't have to work all the time to help support illegals/refugees/whatever else you want to call them. As well i don't have to support the creep in the white house or any of the rest of his fellow politician or their welfare/disabled citizens. Instead I ride the bike and do what I want to do.
I'd keep quiet or else:

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Old 12-26-15, 11:20 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bikenh View Post
20K+ even with a full time job is easy.
No, it's not, or you would see many able to accomplish that. Check out the annual pissing contest over on the road forums, most riders don't accomplish 1/3 of that mileage in a year and that's if they're being honest which I suspect there are more than a few that exaggerate.
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Old 12-26-15, 01:11 PM
  #36  
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20,000+ miles/year is easy even if you have a full time job says the guy who doesn't have a full time job. Who needs Bill Burr when you have BF?
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Old 12-26-15, 01:25 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Buffalo Buff View Post
So the general consensus of many cycle touring message boards seems to be "I don't like UL bike tourists because they're evangelists that think they know the only right way to tour, and never fail to tell other people how to do things."

Which is something that I've personally never witnessed. (I'm sure it has happened at some point though.
In post number 8 of the other UL thread you started, you made what I would consider to be just such a remark:

"Extra pillow? who brings even one pillow? Rolled up jacket is just as good."

There are plenty of other ones I can pull from that thread by you and others, but why bother? Not that they always apply, but most stereotypes are there for a reason, and UL evangelists in both the backpacking and bike touring communities have more than earned their reputations.

Last edited by psy; 12-26-15 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 12-26-15, 02:28 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by psy View Post
UL evangelists in both the backpacking and bike touring communities have more than earned their reputations.
Ive run into more UL backpackers than cyclists. When someone picks up your empty external frame pack and does the disbelieving/sneering "this weighs more than all my gear!?!?!" thing, you tend to start thinking that they are kind of a prick. When several others do the same, you start to generalize that they might all be.

Most of the time on a bike tour I am a bit lighter than any others I might meet. Seldom if ever has it come up.

there are some regular posters here who travel very light. They seem comfortable with it, and have the tendency to offer examples of light weight touring practices as information, rather than as "the way". Most don't use the word "stupid" in describing a full load. And they don't act as though they are marginalized and disliked for their methods. I doubt that they really worry about how they are perceived, even in the face of being questioned on the why of their ways.
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Old 12-26-15, 02:38 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
Ive run into more UL backpackers than cyclists. When someone picks up your empty external frame pack and does the disbelieving/sneering "this weighs more than all my gear!?!?!" thing, you tend to start thinking that they are kind of a prick. When several others do the same, you start to generalize that they might all be.

Most of the time on a bike tour I am a bit lighter than any others I might meet. Seldom if ever has it come up.

there are some regular posters here who travel very light. They seem comfortable with it, and have the tendency to offer examples of light weight touring practices as information, rather than as "the way". Most don't use the word "stupid" in describing a full load. And they don't act as though they are marginalized and disliked for their methods. I doubt that they really worry about how they are perceived, even in the face of being questioned on the why of their ways.

Yeah, the UL crowd in bike touring is definitely more of an online presence that has been gaining steam over the last few years. Same elitist know it all attitude, different point in its development. I find many of the UL arguments even more invalid when it comes to bike touring because of the mechanical advantages a bike gives. And perhaps that's part of the reason it's not as prevalent in bike touring as backpacking, and probably never will be.
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Old 12-26-15, 02:39 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by bikenh View Post
20K+ even with a full time job is easy. First thing you learn to ride back and forth to work. I know of a guy who use to ride 62 miles each day round trip to work. Between that and doing different ultracylcing events throughout the year he was riding 22-23K miles each year...working as a college professor. Your first mission to riding 20K+ a year is to get rid of the car so everywhere you go you go by bicycle. I've ridden almost 77K in the past 4 years with almost 22K this year. Need less the 300 miles to hit both 77K and 22K. I haven't owned a car for over 5.5 years now. I'm single and live by myself. The shortest errand I have to run is 11.1 miles roundtrip to get to the library to get online. I'm online pretty much everyday. Sure a lot on miles are gravy miles during the annual bike trip, 8400 miles in under 3 months. I also had 21 consecutive days back in the spring this year where I rode 100 miles on a fixie. Since I gave up the car I also gave up the expenses so I don't have to work all the time to help support illegals/refugees/whatever else you want to call them. As well i don't have to support the creep in the white house or any of the rest of his fellow politician or their welfare/disabled citizens. Instead I ride the bike and do what I want to do.
That is impressive mileage. You must live in a part of the country where you can ride year round. I'm in favor of part time work, you can't pay for extra years to add to your life! Completely off topic but what do you do for health insurance? I know that is a problem for lots of part time workers.
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Old 12-26-15, 02:49 PM
  #41  
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And online it's pretty easy to say you are "something" by simply spending a lot of time browsing equipment sites and dream picking your "potential" gear. On Earth 2.0 I personally would have a CF bike and a cell phone to handle all my mapping and emergency repair needs. I would also only pack dehydrated water.

On good old Earth 1 I still find I can travel pleasurably with less than optimally enhanced genetically modified gear.

I also get a kick out of the way some people enjoy the rights and freedoms of a place and then complain about the people who provide them. I'm pretty sure your nation was not built and defended by part time workers riding bicycles. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just the complaining part.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 12-26-15 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 12-26-15, 03:06 PM
  #42  
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Ultralight Touring & Attitudes

They make dehydrated water!
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Old 12-26-15, 03:18 PM
  #43  
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Send me 39.99 and I will send you a 35mm film canister full of the stuff. It makes a lot so you should be good for an Australian outback tour as long as you can find enough water to rehydrate it. I suggest at least a 5 gallon jug between resupply stops.
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Old 12-26-15, 03:59 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
20,000+ miles/year is easy even if you have a full time job says the guy who doesn't have a full time job. Who needs Bill Burr when you have BF?
If you have a desk job where you sit on your arse all day long getting 2 hours on the road each way makes complete since. 2 hours *15 mph * twice each day = 60 miles per day. I've worked jobs in the past where I was working 9 hours a day, driving 25 minutes each way and then when I got home from work I would grab supper and load up and drive 1:20 minutes each way to go skiing for 3 hours in the evening. I would do this day in and day out. It's not that hard to do when you don't get caught up in society. I don't have Fbook account. I don't own a TV, don't have internet access at my house. I don't have the technology that steals life away from so many people. Instead of having technology...I have a life. It's not hard to ride 60 miles a day on average when you don't have any reason for staying home...I don't. There's nothing to do there, so why stay home. You just have to learn to rethink life through to understand how you are getting duped by the media right into there hands. I don't get duped, because I don't pay any attention to them. Where's that EMP attack when we need one so darn bad. People will learn how to relive life once the EMP attack hits. When they don't have all their stupid technology they will learn what life that have lost/given away to technology.
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Old 12-26-15, 04:11 PM
  #45  
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Unabomber in 'da house!
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Old 12-26-15, 04:25 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
That is impressive mileage. You must live in a part of the country where you can ride year round. I'm in favor of part time work, you can't pay for extra years to add to your life! Completely off topic but what do you do for health insurance? I know that is a problem for lots of part time workers.
I live in NH. I ride in the snow, and actually prefer winter biking to summer biking as it is usually drier and easier to stay dry/comfortable while biking. Sure the speed is a lot slower than summer riding but it just makes you more ready for the summer riding ahead.

I don't have health insurance. I don't have to file income taxes so I don't have to worry about it. My income isn't high enough and it comes from unearned sources so I don't have to deal with FICA. Yeah, this will go down as my most expensive year since like 2009, around $7K for the year. I don't have to make more than that to support my lifestyle and when the immediate writeoffs of personal exemption/standard deduction comes in over $10K I come out showing I don't owe a cent of taxes and I haven't paid anything in throughout the year so I don't have any refund coming so I don't have to file. I haven't filed in the past 5 years and won't have to this year either. If I wanted to bad enough I could cut my expenses in half without trying. Most of my expenses are related to all the biking I do...cut back the biking and I would cut back the expenses massively. In 2010 I spent less than $4100 the entire year and there are several of those expenses I don't have anymore. That included over $200 in car expenses while driving for the first 4 months of the year. Sure I only rode 3000 miles for the year. The next year I was up to 12K miles for the year and in the past four years I've only had one year under 20K miles. Naturally, the food budget skyrocketed as did the bike repair budget. Granted if I lived in a flatter area the expenses would be far less as a chain/drive system would last much longer than it does here in hilly NH. Flatter lifestyle would also mean less calories burnt/needed to be eaten. Even living here in NH if I gave up the big miles and went back to only riding for errand running I could probably drop my annual mileage down to 2-3K per year and watch the expense column tank like a rock. Yeah, I would have to find something else to do with my time since right now most of my time is spent on the bike/away from home...no reason to stay home when theirs nothing to do at home...don't have a TV at home, don't have internet access at home, sometimes I have a cell phone signal at home/sometimes I don't. No reason to stay home...I don't. I ride the bike.

Admittedly around NH I could fall under Medicaid but I won't even apply. I just try my darnedest to stay away from doctors and then I don't have to worry about health insurance. I don't get any gov't funds and don't want them.
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Old 12-26-15, 04:38 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
there are some regular posters here who travel very light. They seem comfortable with it, and have the tendency to offer examples of light weight touring practices as information, rather than as "the way". Most don't use the word "stupid" in describing a full load. And they don't act as though they are marginalized and disliked for their methods. I doubt that they really worry about how they are perceived, even in the face of being questioned on the why of their ways.
I try to be one of those who provide info and suggestions without judgement and hope that I am successful most of the time. It would be nice if everyone on both sides of the house tried to do that. These choices are a personal preference thing after all.
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Old 12-26-15, 04:46 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by hokie cycler View Post
Unabomber in 'da house!
Not unabomber, just someone that realizes their is a smarter way of living life than trying to play a rigged game.

If you knew you were going into a game where it was rigged against you, no way you could win the game...would you even show up to the game?

You do everyday. You keep on trying to keep up with the Joneses. The game is rigged against and you will never win the game. You will just keep on keeping on and never TRULY get ahead. Once you reach the level of Jones one then Jones two pops up and you have to start all over again. Why play such a stupid game. I don't. I know the game is rigged and if I play it I will lose. I don't play it. I live my life and spent most of my time paying attention to what I need, not what I want. I realize what most people think they need is in reality what the people want. Man kind used to live without electricity and he lived just fine. In true reality he was way more prosperous and accomplished so much more than people today could ever hope to accomplish. How did he do it? He didn't have all these unnecessary gadgets that have monthly bills attached to them. He could live on a lot less because he didn't have to deal with the monthly bills, cell phone, cable TV, internet access, car payment, house payment, etc. He could live on next to nothing because he didn't have all the clutter man kind has today.

You only have one life to live. I chose to live my life now, not when I'm unable to live it. I look at poor swabs like Warren Buffet. That poor swab can't walk away from his job at all. He's the richest man in America yet he can't walk away from his job or he will lose the bulk majority of his wealth. When Berkshire Hathway stock plunges he loses big time. It will plunge big time whenever he walks away/dies. Same for Bill Gates, Andy Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, etc. Why don't they walk away and enjoy the one and only life they have...if they walk away they lose it all...that's why. Do they really enjoy their jobs or are they just trying to fight to save their wealth. Let's take the money out of the game and see how many of them will continue to work the same job when their is no money to be made/saved from them working there. I'd be willing to be all of them would walk away if the money was taken away.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:16 PM
  #49  
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1- we lived without electricity, yes, but we also lived for a significantly less number of years. Just because mankind existed without something for thousands of years doesn't mean it isn't beneficial.

2- if people like making money, then how are they 'swabs'? Seems like they are doing what the love and providing for their family and others thru charitable giving. I don't know what a 'swab' is, I assume that's a negative term to you, but that doesn't seem like a negative life if they like it.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:43 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by bikenh View Post

You only have one life to live. I chose to live my life now, not when I'm unable to live it. I look at poor swabs like Warren Buffet. That poor swab can't walk away from his job at all. He's the richest man in America yet he can't walk away from his job or he will lose the bulk majority of his wealth. When Berkshire Hathway stock plunges he loses big time. It will plunge big time whenever he walks away/dies. Same for Bill Gates, Andy Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, etc. Why don't they walk away and enjoy the one and only life they have...if they walk away they lose it all...that's why. Do they really enjoy their jobs or are they just trying to fight to save their wealth. Let's take the money out of the game and see how many of them will continue to work the same job when their is no money to be made/saved from them working there. I'd be willing to be all of them would walk away if the money was taken away.
I'm pretty sure you won't understand it; but some of actually enjoyed our jobs, and felt we were providing good stewardship for the world we live in.
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