Ultralight Touring & Attitudes
#76
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Instead of addressing a point, you make lame personal attacks. No, English isn't my first language. What's your excuse? If I were to guess you have very little actual touring experience and like hear yourself talk.
You're the biggest UL troll I've yet to come across, including backpacking.
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Instead of addressing a point, you make lame personal attacks. No, English isn't my first language. What's your excuse? If I were to guess you have very little actual touring experience and like hear yourself talk.
You're the biggest UL troll I've yet to come across, including backpacking.
You're the biggest UL troll I've yet to come across, including backpacking.
#79
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Hey Buff- you obviously put a lot of time and thought into your detailed mileage post, very impressive. I have made a sort of New Year's resolution to avoid discouraging folks from being whomever they wish to be on BF. In that spirit, I will share with you and bikenh my favorite source for tires, chains and other consumables, you probably go through lots of those. Buy Road Bikes & Parts at Ribble Cycles | Online Bike Shop Most Contis, for example, are half LBS prices. Try to order enough to get free shipping. Usually takes about one week.
#80
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I've seen a lot of defensiveness, and some attacking in recent threads. It's too bad. I don't know why people feel the need to call others out or to get so defensive about their way of doing things. No need to take things so personally. Just let it go if you don't like what's said, and try to have an open mind. I personally am interested in some of the UL concepts and techniques, although I will never be fast anymore, lol.
I've found some of the points made on this thread to be thought-provoking, even though a lot of it didn't have much to do with the original post. It's all good. Thanks guys.
I've found some of the points made on this thread to be thought-provoking, even though a lot of it didn't have much to do with the original post. It's all good. Thanks guys.
#81
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Nice sentiment Shelby but it's not 2016 yet.
I was going to say I find it strange to talk about the time wasted in other peoples lives while extolling the virtues of riding 60 miles a day, every day but then I remembered some of my journals from when I was a younger 20 something year old. Plenty of raging against the machine in them which, looking back, was mostly about trying to find my own place in a society that I felt was trying to define me in ways I did not fit. Lot's of "This is me - I'm not like you - You suck" sort of stuff.
Good news is: It all worked out! I did become me, and in some ways I'm not like you, but in other ways in turns out I am. Turns out society was just a lot of people trying to define themselves while feeling most of the same sort of feelings I did with some variation thrown in for good measure because we are not clones. In the end it wasn't them trying to make me conform so much as life itself and we were all just trying to ride the same wave together with some pushing and name calling because we were afraid we might fall down or that someone was taking a better line. There is no "society" out there; just people fumbling around trying to be happy in a life that doesn't always offer that. At least not for long.
I commute a modest 30 minutes to work each way, ride on the weekends and tour sometimes. There were times when I did not own a car, commuted 1.5 hours to college and worked as a bicycle courier. Wonderful memories but today ain't bad either. Most of my time at the slave factory now revolves around helping the elderly walk and recover from things like hip fractures; I facilitate a therapeutic walking program at an extended care facility. Spending a lot of time with people at the end of their lives has allowed me to see the results of many different paths and the human vulnerability that underlies all of our hopes and aspirations.
So, good luck with life. I hope most everybody except Hit-ler finds what they are looking for. Just try to have enough humility to not knock those who aren't chasing the same dream.
I was going to say I find it strange to talk about the time wasted in other peoples lives while extolling the virtues of riding 60 miles a day, every day but then I remembered some of my journals from when I was a younger 20 something year old. Plenty of raging against the machine in them which, looking back, was mostly about trying to find my own place in a society that I felt was trying to define me in ways I did not fit. Lot's of "This is me - I'm not like you - You suck" sort of stuff.
Good news is: It all worked out! I did become me, and in some ways I'm not like you, but in other ways in turns out I am. Turns out society was just a lot of people trying to define themselves while feeling most of the same sort of feelings I did with some variation thrown in for good measure because we are not clones. In the end it wasn't them trying to make me conform so much as life itself and we were all just trying to ride the same wave together with some pushing and name calling because we were afraid we might fall down or that someone was taking a better line. There is no "society" out there; just people fumbling around trying to be happy in a life that doesn't always offer that. At least not for long.
I commute a modest 30 minutes to work each way, ride on the weekends and tour sometimes. There were times when I did not own a car, commuted 1.5 hours to college and worked as a bicycle courier. Wonderful memories but today ain't bad either. Most of my time at the slave factory now revolves around helping the elderly walk and recover from things like hip fractures; I facilitate a therapeutic walking program at an extended care facility. Spending a lot of time with people at the end of their lives has allowed me to see the results of many different paths and the human vulnerability that underlies all of our hopes and aspirations.
So, good luck with life. I hope most everybody except Hit-ler finds what they are looking for. Just try to have enough humility to not knock those who aren't chasing the same dream.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 12-27-15 at 09:23 AM.
#83
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Very true bikenh.
Some days I catch myself spending 3 or 4 hours in a single day just sitting around reading stuff and posting on different message boards relevant to my hobbies. Time can fly by pretty fast without even realizing it. In that same time frame I could do 60 miles. Most people spend that much time per day watching TV. Like you, I also don't watch TV. Simply because there's other things I'd rather do.
If you're married, supporting a family, working 60 hours a week plus running your kids to school and athletic practices etc, 60 miles a day sounds completely unreasonable. But I do 60 miles just going to and from work, grabbing lunch, then visiting my girlfriend. I don't have to go out of my way at all.
I've been driving the past few days because I've been very sick. Its ridiculous to me having to pay 10$ a day in gas just to get around. If I want to go to work, hang out with my buddy who lives north of me, then drive over to my girlfriends to spend the night, that's easily 10$ right there. It feels absurd after bike commuting full time. I like keeping my car around for emergencies, but I'm very close to getting rid of it. I'm with you....the costs of gas, insurance, registration etc. is just silly to me after seeing how practical bike commuting is.
Some days I catch myself spending 3 or 4 hours in a single day just sitting around reading stuff and posting on different message boards relevant to my hobbies. Time can fly by pretty fast without even realizing it. In that same time frame I could do 60 miles. Most people spend that much time per day watching TV. Like you, I also don't watch TV. Simply because there's other things I'd rather do.
If you're married, supporting a family, working 60 hours a week plus running your kids to school and athletic practices etc, 60 miles a day sounds completely unreasonable. But I do 60 miles just going to and from work, grabbing lunch, then visiting my girlfriend. I don't have to go out of my way at all.
I've been driving the past few days because I've been very sick. Its ridiculous to me having to pay 10$ a day in gas just to get around. If I want to go to work, hang out with my buddy who lives north of me, then drive over to my girlfriends to spend the night, that's easily 10$ right there. It feels absurd after bike commuting full time. I like keeping my car around for emergencies, but I'm very close to getting rid of it. I'm with you....the costs of gas, insurance, registration etc. is just silly to me after seeing how practical bike commuting is.
#84
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#85
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I think it's hilarious that the OP is saying he's never heard UL Tourers tell others how to tour, when not only did I post a comment of his where he is doing just that, but now bikenh has taken the game to a whole new level, not only do we not know how to tour correctly, but we are living our entire lives incorrectly
I know if Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, ISIS(ISIL whatever you want call the stupid group or idiots) decides to attack the United States with an EMP attack all electronic devices will get fried. Other than heating my house right now with electricity I can walk away from the power grid without trying. Can you? What will you do when the car won't start, the TV doesn't work anymore, the movie theaters are shut down, the internet is down, the cell phone doesn't work, etc. No more Fbook or *****ter. What will you do then to occupy yourself. How wrapped up is your life into one thing and one thing only...electricity. When all the things you "can't live without" are laying on the cupboard as dead devices you will start to realize what truly is important in life. That's when you will find a new way to occupy yourself and who your real friends are, versus who is using you for their benefit. It's your decision which way you go. I've made my decision.
Don't try to tell me I can't ride 20+K miles in a year. Kurt Searvogel has ridden over 73000 miles in the past year. He's not riding around the clock, generally 14-15 hours a day. Cut the time in half and you cut the distance in half, 36,500 miles in a year riding 7-8 hours a day, another 8 hours a day working and 8 hours a day sleeping(heck I don't get that much sleep). When you don't have anything else to do, what else is there to do. 20K miles a year working full time is not hard to do. You just have to do it. It take 6-7 weeks to form a new habit and get use to a new way of doing things...a new way of seeing the possibility of how you can do things. Like I said before I was out so long this summer I completely got use to living on the road. In the past 3 summer trips it didn't happen, they weren't long enough trips. It takes time to create change. Yes, I will fess, I'm single and live by myself. If you have the wife and kids to deal with it does complicate things a bit but it is still doable.
#86
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I'm not telling anyone how to live their life. Everyone can make their own choices and pay their own price(it may not be not that you pay the price...it may be later). In the same way don't tell me I'm not living my life correctly. I don't tell you how to live your life. You only have one life to live and you can only regret your decisions once.
I know if Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, ISIS(ISIL whatever you want call the stupid group or idiots) decides to attack the United States with an EMP attack all electronic devices will get fried. Other than heating my house right now with electricity I can walk away from the power grid without trying. Can you? What will you do when the car won't start, the TV doesn't work anymore, the movie theaters are shut down, the internet is down, the cell phone doesn't work, etc. No more Fbook or *****ter. What will you do then to occupy yourself. How wrapped up is your life into one thing and one thing only...electricity. When all the things you "can't live without" are laying on the cupboard as dead devices you will start to realize what truly is important in life. That's when you will find a new way to occupy yourself and who your real friends are, versus who is using you for their benefit. It's your decision which way you go. I've made my decision.
Don't try to tell me I can't ride 20+K miles in a year. Kurt Searvogel has ridden over 73000 miles in the past year. He's not riding around the clock, generally 14-15 hours a day. Cut the time in half and you cut the distance in half, 36,500 miles in a year riding 7-8 hours a day, another 8 hours a day working and 8 hours a day sleeping(heck I don't get that much sleep). When you don't have anything else to do, what else is there to do. 20K miles a year working full time is not hard to do. You just have to do it. It take 6-7 weeks to form a new habit and get use to a new way of doing things...a new way of seeing the possibility of how you can do things. Like I said before I was out so long this summer I completely got use to living on the road. In the past 3 summer trips it didn't happen, they weren't long enough trips. It takes time to create change. Yes, I will fess, I'm single and live by myself. If you have the wife and kids to deal with it does complicate things a bit but it is still doable.
I know if Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, ISIS(ISIL whatever you want call the stupid group or idiots) decides to attack the United States with an EMP attack all electronic devices will get fried. Other than heating my house right now with electricity I can walk away from the power grid without trying. Can you? What will you do when the car won't start, the TV doesn't work anymore, the movie theaters are shut down, the internet is down, the cell phone doesn't work, etc. No more Fbook or *****ter. What will you do then to occupy yourself. How wrapped up is your life into one thing and one thing only...electricity. When all the things you "can't live without" are laying on the cupboard as dead devices you will start to realize what truly is important in life. That's when you will find a new way to occupy yourself and who your real friends are, versus who is using you for their benefit. It's your decision which way you go. I've made my decision.
Don't try to tell me I can't ride 20+K miles in a year. Kurt Searvogel has ridden over 73000 miles in the past year. He's not riding around the clock, generally 14-15 hours a day. Cut the time in half and you cut the distance in half, 36,500 miles in a year riding 7-8 hours a day, another 8 hours a day working and 8 hours a day sleeping(heck I don't get that much sleep). When you don't have anything else to do, what else is there to do. 20K miles a year working full time is not hard to do. You just have to do it. It take 6-7 weeks to form a new habit and get use to a new way of doing things...a new way of seeing the possibility of how you can do things. Like I said before I was out so long this summer I completely got use to living on the road. In the past 3 summer trips it didn't happen, they weren't long enough trips. It takes time to create change. Yes, I will fess, I'm single and live by myself. If you have the wife and kids to deal with it does complicate things a bit but it is still doable.
1. No I cannot walk away from the power grid nor do I want to, period. I'll live with the risk of an EMP attack, whatever the heck that is. Take the doomsday prepper talk somewhere else, I'm sure there's a forum for that somewhere on the interwebs.
2. Riding 14 hours a day is insane. I love riding my bike, but not that much. Someone like that has let bike riding consume their life and their is no time for anything else. It's a case study in OCD.
3. Riding 7-8 hours a day, every day is a bit extreme, but hey, to each his own.
This thread should end as it has gone WAY off course. I like coming to the touring thread because the threads are typically very civil and I have learned a lot about touring which is something I have never done but would like to try.
#87
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+ 1,000. The touring forum has long been a really one. Really good discussions and disagreements. This thread is poor. We have 2 posters (the OP and @ bikenh) on this thread who have vigorously trolled the thread and it should have been closed a long time ago.
Last edited by bikemig; 12-27-15 at 12:47 PM.
#88
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A few comments:
3. Riding 7-8 hours a day, every day is a bit extreme, but hey, to each his own.
This thread should end as it has gone WAY off course. I like coming to the touring thread because the threads are typically very civil and I have learned a lot about touring which is something I have never done but would like to try.
3. Riding 7-8 hours a day, every day is a bit extreme, but hey, to each his own.
This thread should end as it has gone WAY off course. I like coming to the touring thread because the threads are typically very civil and I have learned a lot about touring which is something I have never done but would like to try.
Oh yeah, the trip started the same way. Most of the trip until the tail end I was going most of the day without seeing a normal grocery store. All the way down the east coast and back up through the midwest I had very little in the way of services during the day. If you wanted to shorten your mileage you was going to be carrying a lot more food with you or else you was going to be eating sugary snacks.
There is plenty to learn even in pure drivel like this thread. I guess it just takes saying the right thing to get the right person to reply back.
#89
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For an off the grid guy who doesn't need electricity, you sure do spend a lot of time on the internet.
#90
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#91
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There is a difference between riding 7-8 hours a day for a week long tour, or even a month long tour, than to do so EVERY day of the year to reach some insane mileage total like 20k or 30k miles in a year, which is where this thread started to go off the rails with your manifesto.
For an off the grid guy who doesn't need electricity, you sure do spend a lot of time on the internet.
For an off the grid guy who doesn't need electricity, you sure do spend a lot of time on the internet.
When it rains, it pours. I bank miles for rainy days like today. I'm sitting in McDonalds online right now. I rode in here with drizzle falling. It's raining at a bit more steady pace right now and I have several things I'm working on online right now since I don't have much else to do. Typically, like last night, I don't get home until 9:30-10PM. No reason to. I get home, eat supper and then go to bed. Yeah, on crummy days like today I'll spend more time online than others when the weather is a lot nicer. You learn in life to get things done at the appropriate time. Sometimes you just have to wait for the right time to come before you get certain projects done. I guess after riding 172 miles in the past two days I can afford a short day. Only need 197 miles the rest of the year to hit my goal for the year so I'm not to terribly worried by it. Nice day tomorrow and then again on Wednesday and Thursday and I'm planning on probably doing a 100 miler on both NYE and NYD, just like I did last year. Why do that...I guess its the same answer as to why go on a bike tour...because you/I want to...err, because it's there dang it.
#92
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So the general consensus of many cycle touring message boards seems to be "I don't like UL bike tourists because they're evangelists that think they know the only right way to tour, and never fail to tell other people how to do things."
Which is something that I've personally never witnessed. (I'm sure it has happened at some point though).
Which is something that I've personally never witnessed. (I'm sure it has happened at some point though).
What I have witnessed is a general condescending attitude towards people who are interested in UL touring.
I have a workshop, I occasionally watch videos on how to lift the heavy things. I don't need to watch videos on how to move my ham sandwich across the shop.
Recently someone asked about chain lube on an UL tour, and a fellow poster was snarkily remarking about how the OP probably wouldn't want to carry a rag for chain care and waste a half ounce.
I made no attempt to convert anyone, or talk down to anyone who packs differently than me.
So I can't comment on what you've personally experienced over the years from tourists with different opinions. Some of us pack light, some heavy, some in between. Some of us have talked to nothing but friendly people on the road, some of us have others tell us how stupid we are for using the bike / gear we do.
But what I can comment on is my past year posting here. What I can tell you is if there are UL evangelists, I can't find them, but I can find you plenty of people who get super defensive if you talk about it, and want to keep UL tourists from posting in general touring threads, and some that even go out of there way to be idiots in threads clearly dedicated to UL touring.
We're a small community. We should be able to get along better IMO.
#94
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I think the OP has an ultra-light chip on his shoulder. Only one thread begging people to dis the overly abused ultra-light peace loving people is not enough.
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#97
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I didn't think this thread would last since we already dealt with the subject for 40+ pages quite recently and we aren't going to come up with anything new and exciting on the subject.
How about we talk about the lack of winter? As far as I know we haven't discussed that yet and we might have something new to say on it!
How about we talk about the lack of winter? As far as I know we haven't discussed that yet and we might have something new to say on it!
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You need to notify the mods. They cannot monitor every thread sua sponte.