VT_Speed_TR

I've switch over to simple "bikepacking" bags, though really it is a mix. I use a frame bag, a traditional seatbag from Dill pickle, and a small front rack with a liteweight dry bag strapped to it. The frame bag contains cooking gear, spare tubes, tent poles, Ipad. The seatbag contains clothes. The front dry bag contains sleeping bag & pad and then the tent is strap on top of that. My Salsa Fargo has water bottle mounts on the fork, so I have 2 water bottles there and if I need more, I use the mount under the downtube. Very easy to pack and great for bouncing down forest service roads and some single track trails.

Salamandrine 

Regarding frame packs and water bottles: I guess you can always stop and drink. I'm suspicious of the idea of frame packs for touring partly for that reason. It's hot where I live.

I think the idea of bikepacking is basically so you can easily negotiate single track trails on a mountain bike. Panniers would quickly get snagged in a lot of trail situations.

The bike I'm setting up now is going to have an old fashioned randonneur type set up with a large front bag on a rack and a saddle bag. I think this is a good compromise for shortish weekender type bike camping, with a bit of extra clearance for the occasional dirt road. Haven't quite decided where my tent poles will go, perhaps lashed to the front rack.

You don't necessarily need a tent. I went on a 3 week trip once and only slept on a tarp.

cyccommute 

I was under the impression that you carried a lot less weight than what is listed on your packing list. I know that there are lots of ultralight tourist that claim a lot less than what you do...like half or less. Maybe they are telling fish stories

That said, you are carrying about 6 lbs less than I did on my most recent tour and I was carrying 4 panniers and 3 extra changes of bicycle clothes. I just have it in more volume than you do.

Rob_E

I think the mistake being made is that people look at the frame bag and think, "That's where I keep my water. Now I will have no water." I have seen multiple strategies for mounting water bottles in other, accessible locations, and I've heard of people simply putting their water into the frame bag. I don't know how these bags are laid out and how they are accessed, but it sounds like some have a whole for sip tube for a bladder, and I would guess that you could also arrange it in a way that you could unzip a little and pull a water bottle out while you are still on the move.

I definitely want to try a frame bag, and I definitely want to keep my water handy, but I'm not worried that those two are mutually exclusive.

There are also half bags for the frame that hang down from the top tube but stop short of interfering with the water bottle cages. I think Revelate calls them Tangle bags.

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/inde...TangleFrameBag

cyccommute 

That depends on how you define "interfering". I have a Tangle bag and I can't mount it inside the frame of a 19" Moots YBB with a bottle in the bottle cage. That's not a small mountain bike frame either.

Even if I could get a bottle in the cage, the bag makes getting the bottle out while riding a challenge.

alan s 

Water bladders leave a taste in the water, but I haven't tried all, so maybe some are better than others. That's why I prefer water bottles. Plus, water bottles are handier around the campsite than a bladder.

alan s 

If you look at the photos on page 1, that's the Tangle bag on my bike. The water bottles are only 12 oz each, as that's the largest that will fit. Extra water can be carried in numerous ways, but I would probably opt for a Revelate Mountain Feedbag or two that mount next to the stem and carry additional fluids there.

Leebo

I find the Camelbak ones great for mt biking. No taste. Just empty and hang to dry after every ride.

alan s 

Can you get just the bladder, or do you need the whole pack that is worn on your back? If bladder only, I would give it a try, but I don't like wearing a pack.

nun

The really hard-core folks will cut down on the camping and cooking side of things, eliminate things like umbrellas, and probably use lighter bags. I like to describe my setup as lightweight and I find minimizing the volume and number of bags helps in touring convenience. Having just two bags makes off bike travel easy.

Rob_E

Yeah, I don't think I'd want to use the Tangle bag. I just thought it was worth pointing out as an option. I feel like the frame bag is a great use of space (haven't tried one yet, though), and I'd rather go that route and either put my water in the frame bag or find another place for it. I usually keep one bottle handy and have another stashed somewhere in case I empty the first, but I never worry about having more than one accessible from on the bike, so losing those cage mounts doesn't seem like a huge inconvenience, especially if it lets me forgo one of my panniers.

nun

The difference between bikepacking and touring isn't the equipment, it's what you do. Bikepacking is generally more intense and involves lots of off road; touring....not so much, and I want to say touring takes place over a longer time. So maybe you could go on a bikepacking tour. Riding the Great Divide could be done with the same equipment in a full on bikepacking way with minimal
stops or it could be done in a touring style where you take it easier and savor the experience a bit more.

Ridefreemc

I just bring a string backpack. Great for throwing things in when in a hurry, and the second half of my Subway sandwich for later

alan s 

I agree with you about water, but would point out that the stock Tangle bag happens to fit my frame perfectly, whereas a full frame bag would probably need to be custom made. So the cost of a frame bag and time to have it made are factors to consider.

Tourist in MSN

Depends on the frame and the frame bag, the purpose of the photo is to show that you can fit water bottles and some frame bags. In the photo I am just doing day tripping and using my expedition bike as if it was a mountain bike, not overnight camping. So, the bike is not fully outfitted with camping gear. I think my water bottles are 28 oz capacity in this photo, one under the down tube and one on the seat tube. So, not quite a half gallon of total capacity, but close.



I had inner tubes, patches, tools, etc., in the frame bag. On some days I had maybe another liter of water bottles (for that I used soda pop bottles) in the frame bag too. I think the frame bag is about five liters in capacity.

cyccommute 

Old ones used to. Modern bladders, especially those from Camelbak don't.

I do agree that water bottles are handy. On my road tours, I carry 3 of them. Two have Gatorade and are usually thrown out (or sent home to be sterilized) after about 3 weeks. The third one is for water only and is used to recharge my Camelbak if needed.



For off-road riding, I don't use bottles much. Long experience has taught me that they get covered in nasty stuff that makes them icky to drink from out in the woods. Nothing like a bit of green cow leavings on the top of a bottle to keep me from drinking from them

That been my experience too. It's even worse with a mountain bike which is a proportionately smaller frame.

cyccommute 

Camelbak makes the Unbottle which is essentially a Camelbak without the straps. You could rig up an extended tube so that you could place the Unbottle anywhere and drink from it. That's not as convenient as wear the pack but it could work.

On the other hand, Camelbaks work really well in the muggy East...if you know how to use them. I come from a place where the average humidity (daytime, nighttime, winter and summer) is about 50% but is often much, much lower. To be honest, 50% RH feels muggy to us out here in Colorado. When I tour east of about Kansas, I really suffer. But I've found that loading a Camelbak in the morning with as much ice as I can stuff in the morning provides me with cold water to drink but, more importantly, the cold bag does wonders to cool me and make the humidity much more bearable. I buy 7 to 10 lb bags at convenience stores and use about 3/4 of a 7 lb bag or about half of a 10 lb bag.

This has worked really well in 5 of my last 6 major tours that have been east of Colorado and it has even worked well when I hit 103°F temperatures going west out of Missoula. Thankfully, they aren't any more humid than Denver is.

bikenh

Okay as much as I hate to do this but I have to clarify what you said nun. It's not what you pack but its knowing how to use what your carrying or what you can find right around you. Tell the survivalists that can go and live off the land for days or weeks on end even in horrible weather that its about what you carry and they will laugh at you until you are blue in the face. The knowledge is far more important than the equipment. You can have all the equipment and then some but if you don't know how to use or innovate with it then the equipment is totally worthless.

On another note with what the OP was questioning. In several pix/videos I have seen guys doing homemade water bottle mounts right on fork and also on the seatseats right above the dropout. If I remember correctly they were just using electrical tape to hold them on and also to keep them from scratching the paint job on the bike. Do a little surfing around and you'll find pix/videos that will show you what I'm talking about. I don't remember specifically where I saw them right now but I have seen the photos and remember the concept.

alan s 

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check it out. The Tangle bag has an opening for a tube, so that would work nicely, especially if the water doesn't pick up a plastic taste.

bmike

you can buy just the bladders from platypus and others. my setup comes out of my frame bag, with a sawyer mini in line filter, and then hooks onto my bars with a retractable leash:
(here it is completely frozen...)
IMG_5122 by Mike, on Flickr

on my road rig, running in a tangle bag and then out to the bars:
Climbing. Again. by Mike, on Flickr

tangle and bottle, and panniers... this was an experiment - i'm back to soft bags for this rig... too much noise and bouncing around on the rough gravel for me:
IF Ti Club Racer at dinner by Mike, on Flickr

alan s 

I tried the Platypus, and that's the one with the plastic taste. Hoping the Camelback is better.

Also, what did you use to move your water bottle cage lower?

Worknomore

Not sure whether I bike pack or tour. Never really thought about definitions. My base weight for a 3 season 2/3 week ride will be no more than 15 lbs. I use Ortleib front sport packers on the rear and a handelbar bag. Very easy to fit everything in loose and fast. Easy to get at what I need.