Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Surly - Condor - Soma s&s suggestion

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Surly - Condor - Soma s&s suggestion

Old 03-05-16, 12:26 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Surly - Condor - Soma s&s suggestion

Hello from Switzerland, I'm looking for my first touring bike. I will be without a job the next months, so it seems the right time to transfom a dream into a real long adventure around the World.

- Soma Saga with s&s from bilenky (if they will ships in Switzerland)
- Surly Long haul trucker
- Salsa Marrakech
- Condor Heritage disk frame - made with columbus spirit steel, the head tube seems very thin to me, to be a load touring frame, but whell they will have made their accounts, or no?)
- Condor Heritage canti - made with dedacciai sta14.5, here the head tube is bigger than the Heritage disk.
The condor seems a good deal with a complete bike building from their website.

On these frame I'm seriously considering a possible s&s coupler retrofitting not because airplane charge but for an easier bus/train/car transport - I looked for a new s&s frame but new models are really very expensive (salsa vaya traveler or other custom frameset with a very long lead time).
700c and mechanical disk break seems to be a good compromise between availability /advantages

Any suggestions are welcome!
dmas is offline  
Old 03-05-16, 12:39 PM
  #2  
Bike touring webrarian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,071

Bikes: I tour on a Waterford Adventurecycle. It is a fabulous touring bike.

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by dmas
On these frame I'm seriously considering a possible s&s coupler retrofitting not because airplane charge but for an easier bus/train/car transport - I looked for a new s&s frame but new models are really very expensive (salsa vaya traveler or other custom frameset with a very long lead time).
700c and mechanical disk break seems to be a good compromise between availability /advantages

Any suggestions are welcome!
While an S&S coupled frame can be broken in half, it will still be hard to transport on a train or bus without some kind of bag to hold all the parts together and make it appear as a piece of luggage. I travel with my S&S coupled bike in a hard shell case that goes to the start and finish of my tour (I ship to the finish if it isn't a loop tour). I have uncoupled my bike and put it into a car many times. This doesn't require a container as it easily fits in a trunk.

The only time I took a bus with an uncoupled bike was in Scotland. I used some garbage bags as a cover. If I was going to do this without the case, I'd likely carry some way to tie the bike parts together, such as, rope, cord, and/or velcro.

raybo is offline  
Old 03-05-16, 01:01 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
mdilthey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,923

Bikes: Nature Boy 853 Disc, Pugsley SS

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Can't comment on S+S Couplers making bus or train travel any easier. In the US, we have roll-on train service in a lot of places.

Unless you have a dedicated bike box, splitting the frame doesn't seem like a very significant way to increase the ease of transport. I fail to imagine a convenience in separating the bike into even more pieces, when the trunk area of a bus or the storage car in a train seems to be big enough for a frame minus the wheels as it is.

My experience with Amtrak without the roll-on service was fine. They gave me a bike box which would have held a small motorcycle. It was easily 7 feet long. I just loosened the stem to turn the handlebars sideways and took the pedals off, and slid the whole thing into the box, and it made it all the way across the US with one train transfer with no issues. I traveled light and kept my two panniers and backpack with me.
mdilthey is offline  
Old 03-05-16, 01:23 PM
  #4  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,357 Times in 863 Posts
I got a Bike friday finally , it hides in suitcase sized Boxes or actual Samsonite suit case - trailer kit is sold by them.

In Europe I used a regular touring Bike , Once as part of a group from Paris to Berne, we sent the bikes ahead via SNCF
then took the TGV to Lyon, and a slow local to meet them in CH.

Once on the Polish Rail I stood my Bike on end in a corner of the passage way, then stayed awake on an overnight
to make sure it did not get off the train with some one else..

S and S Machine, who make Couplers will ship to most any Of the frame builders to be part of the new Build .



Surly had a " Traveler's Check" was a cross check, with S&S couples shipped to the TW company that makes their frames .

AFAIK, they sold that batch didn't re order it.

BTW a 700c wheel sized Box has a hard time meeting the max Girth dimensions for air Line fee avoidance.

26" with the air out of the tires will just pass ..


But airline staff have asked "whats in there?" and seeing it's a Bike charged the traveler anyhow.

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-05-16 at 01:33 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 03-05-16, 01:59 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
dmas, Welcome to the forum.

This is a pretty good forum for bikes and gear so I'm sure you'll receive some good advice. Just fit that advice into what you'll need / want. S&S couplers are a great invention for those that need to pack and transport their bicycles often in smaller packages. For those who find it a handy option only a couple of times, I don't think they are necessary, in particular cost wise.
From your list the Condor Heritage canti maybe a good starting point, as would the LHT.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 03-05-16, 06:00 PM
  #6  
 
BigAura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chapin, SC
Posts: 3,423

Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 623 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 33 Posts
S&S couplers are a nice option to have but probably not the panacea that you imagine, here's the quote from an earlier post I made:


Originally Posted by BigAura
I found a good deal on a LHT Deluxe frame that comes with factory installed S&S couplers. I built up a new touring bike using some parts from my LHT, I had at the time, and then resold the standard frame. The upgrade only cost a few hundred, and turned out great. I notice nothing as far as handling is concerned.

I've only flight packed the bike once. I packed bike and all gear into two regulation sized cartons. The cartons were originally sized/designed for shipping bicycle wheels. I was flying Southwest (domestic US), who includes two regulation check bags with regular ticket purchase. My one-way ticket Washington DC to Milwaukee, WS was $104 including the two check boxes. I only carried-on a few personal items.

The TSA did rummage through both of the boxes, behind closed doors, and left several love notes. But everything arrived fine, and the airport security guy at the baggage claim area granted me permission to assembly my bike inside. I assembled everything in a little over an hour, tossed out my packaging, wheeled my bike outside, and rode off to begin my tour.

I've also used my couplers on two other occasions, once to fit into an auto, and the other for bus travel.

The bottom line is: I'm glad I have the couplers as an option. It's not really as convenient as I initially imagined. Regulation-style dis-assembly, packing, and reassembly, takes a good bit more effort than packing in a bike box. For me any real-cost-saving is way off in the future. Personally I wouldn't recommend doing a retrofit if you think it's going to save you a lot. If you've got extra cash, a great builder that you totally trust, plenty of time for the complete process, then sure... why not?

Last edited by BigAura; 03-06-16 at 07:01 AM.
BigAura is offline  
Old 03-06-16, 03:27 AM
  #7  
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I have just bought a Condor Heritage in Dedacciai tubing. I opted for cantis but you can have mini-Vs too. You can buy the frameset or have Condor build the bike for you.

If you go the latter route, talk to them about the group, they'll tend to steer you towards Shimano 11-speed with a compact double and a big cassette. If you prefer a triple, work out which drivetrain you prefer and get them to source that for you.

I live close enough to London to be able to visit the Condor shop and take advantage of their free fitting service, which will be more problematic if you're in Switzerland. At 1.92 m with a 89 cm inseam I found I could satisfactorily fit either their 61cm or 64cm frames. I went with the 61 cm frame with a 130mm stem because I prefer a slightly more aggressive position.

It's an excellent bike, beautifully finished and lively enough to be fun and fairly fast on the days you're not loaded. I'm taking it to France next month for a 5-6 week tour, I'm pretty confident it'll be ideal. Can't help you about the S&S couplers, I've never used them.
chasm54 is offline  
Old 03-06-16, 12:31 PM
  #8  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for all your quick suggestions! so probably is more effective a big smile to the bus driver or train controller than the s&s couplers.

You have reassured me about the goodness of the Condor Heritage and probably this will be my choice. I have also the chance to try a Cinelli Hobootleg that seems not bad at all!

Originally Posted by chasm54
I live close enough to London to be able to visit the Condor shop and take advantage of their free fitting service, which will be more problematic if you're in Switzerland. At 1.92 m with a 89 cm inseam I found I could satisfactorily fit either their 61cm or 64cm frames. I went with the 61 cm frame with a 130mm stem because I prefer a slightly more aggressive position.
I'm 1.83m with 86cm inseam, so 58cm seems the right choice, maybe 61cm, but at this time both frame are sold out on Condor website.
dmas is offline  
Old 03-06-16, 12:39 PM
  #9  
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by dmas
Thanks for all your quick suggestions! so probably is more effective a big smile to the bus driver or train controller than the s&s couplers.

You have reassured me about the goodness of the Condor Heritage and probably this will be my choice. I have also the chance to try a Cinelli Hobootleg that seems not bad at all!



I'm 1.83m with 86cm inseam, so 58cm seems the right choice, maybe 61cm, but at this time both frame are sold out on Condor website.
You'll almost certainly want the 58, I'd think. Good luck with whatever you choose.
chasm54 is offline  
Old 03-06-16, 01:56 PM
  #10  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,357 Times in 863 Posts
Used a Bus in Co Kerry , motor was in the center huge luggage hold in the rear , just took off the panniers put the whole bike in

then put the panniers on top & other people's back packs went on top of that.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 03-07-16, 02:00 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
PDKL45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: South Korea
Posts: 783

Bikes: Merida Speeder

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 165 Times in 115 Posts
There's only one tourer I would buy if I was based in Switzerland:

https://www.mtbcycletech.com/core/sho...e7deb39443fe8e
PDKL45 is offline  
Old 03-07-16, 04:00 PM
  #12  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob
BTW a 700c wheel sized Box has a hard time meeting the max Girth dimensions for air Line fee avoidance.

26" with the air out of the tires will just pass ..
I have an extra-large (sized up from the max regular size) 29er that fits into the co-motion soft case, 26x26x10, as long as noone looks too closely at the bulges. I haven't traveled w/ it yet, but will be in June.

Originally Posted by fietsbob
But airline staff have asked "whats in there?" and seeing it's a Bike charged the traveler anyhow.
I've never heard of this happening. Not saying that it doesn't, but if so it's probably rare.
northerntier is offline  
Old 03-07-16, 04:10 PM
  #13  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,357 Times in 863 Posts
Cross Your Fingers and Knock on wood ..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 03-21-16, 07:17 PM
  #14  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PDKL45
There's only one tourer I would buy if I was based in Switzerland:

https://www.mtbcycletech.com/core/sho...e7deb39443fe8e
Originally Posted by PDKL45
There's only one tourer I would buy if I was based in Switzerland:

https://www.mtbcycletech.com/core/sho...e7deb39443fe8e
Yeah I was buying the Condor Heritage today, then I saw this beauty:
MTB Amar, the 29er version of the Papalagi.
https://www.mtbcycletech.com/core/sho...ae5f5bad03bbaa

But I can't find any deep review or suggestion from real users, what do you think about this MTB? the frame is a bit more expensive than the Condor Heritage.
dmas is offline  
Old 03-21-16, 07:58 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
PDKL45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: South Korea
Posts: 783

Bikes: Merida Speeder

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 165 Times in 115 Posts
I think it looks great, but it's more of a cyclocross bike than an MTB. It would be a good fast tourer, without racks and bags. Also, if you're off around the world, remember that 26" wheels and basically the global standard these days. Most expedition tourers like the Paplagi and (one version of) the Condor Heritage feature them due to the accessibility of spare parts and tires in other countries.
PDKL45 is offline  
Old 03-21-16, 08:03 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,457

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5898 Post(s)
Liked 3,513 Times in 2,094 Posts
The world troller is pretty cool as well, World Troller | Bikes | Surly Bikes
bikemig is offline  
Old 03-21-16, 08:56 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
alan s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,977
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1496 Post(s)
Liked 189 Times in 128 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig
The world troller is pretty cool as well, World Troller | Bikes | Surly Bikes
Just bought one today from Bilenky, along with the transporting bag and related gear. I'll be moving all components from my regular Troll over to the World Troller frame, and rebuild the Troll as 1x11 trail and commuter bike. Ended up costing about the same as a retrofit and powdercoating, so not a bad deal at all, considering I have everything except the drivetrain and brakes already lying around for the old frame.
alan s is offline  
Old 03-21-16, 09:24 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,457

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5898 Post(s)
Liked 3,513 Times in 2,094 Posts
Originally Posted by alan s
Just bought one today from Bilenky, along with the transporting bag and related gear. I'll be moving all components from my regular Troll over to the World Troller frame, and rebuild the Troll as 1x11 trail and commuter bike. Ended up costing about the same as a retrofit and powdercoating, so not a bad deal at all, considering I have everything except the drivetrain and brakes already lying around for the old frame.
Cool; I'd like to see a ride report and some pictures. It's a good looking and really versatile bike.
bikemig is offline  
Old 03-21-16, 10:10 PM
  #19  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I too bought the World Troller. As it's frame only it's been (still only is) a bike building project/process for me.
Choosing the parts for my "Kamala" touring Troller made me learn a lot about bikes.
I'll test fly the Troller to the Azores for an extended weekend as soon as it's complete.
Last year, on a trip from Lisboa to Santiago de Compostela with my current bike, on the way back I made the last leg from Porto to Lisboa by bus.
The bike made the trip standing up in the cargo hold of the bus, loaded with back panniers, chain locked to a strut. I'm 1,68m.
Kamykaze is offline  
Old 03-21-16, 11:14 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
alan s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,977
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1496 Post(s)
Liked 189 Times in 128 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig
Cool; I'd like to see a ride report and some pictures. It's a good looking and really versatile bike.
Should have it in 3 weeks, and then build it up. Assume it will ride exactly like my Troll, which I obviously like since I'm buying the same bike again. Packing it in a travel bag will be a new experience. I'll definitely follow up with pictures and ride report.
alan s is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 07:15 AM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
Rob_E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,709

Bikes: Downtube 8H, Surly Troll

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by dmas
On these frame I'm seriously considering a possible s&s coupler retrofitting not because airplane charge but for an easier bus/train/car transport - I looked for a new s&s frame but new models are really very expensive (salsa vaya traveler or other custom frameset with a very long lead time).
I found that retrofitting a frame and buying a frame with S & S couplers were not that much different in price. But with a retrofit, the frame has to be repainted, so it ends up costing more. Still worth it for a frame you want, but in my case, the frame wanted was a Troll, so it was cheaper to get the S & S version.

Originally Posted by mdilthey
Unless you have a dedicated bike box, splitting the frame doesn't seem like a very significant way to increase the ease of transport. I fail to imagine a convenience in separating the bike into even more pieces, when the trunk area of a bus or the storage car in a train seems to be big enough for a frame minus the wheels as it is.
So far the only time I've actually used the couplers to help me transport the bike was to get it into the back of a van. I tried just removing the wheels, and it still wouldn't fit, so I split the bike, and all was well.

It is not as quick or as easy as a folding bike, though. Some reassembly is needed at the other end, but only a few minutes if you can keep the cable routing in place.

I think the couplers have value, but I agree that having a case for the bike increases the value, but, in terms of a world tour, I don't know if I'd want to always carry a case, for the odd time that I needed it. Seems like you might be able to get or fashion a box for the bike as needed just to get through a bus ride or a train ride without roll-on service. There are plenty of times when transporting a bike can be a problem. When you're planning your tour, you work around that, but when you're on the road and need a lift in an unplanned situation, it's good to have options that don't involve passing up a ride because the bike is too big.

In a couple of months, I get to put it to the test.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
2016-03-17 19.00.43sm.jpg (106.2 KB, 106 views)
Rob_E is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 08:23 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,299

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3505 Post(s)
Liked 1,490 Times in 1,163 Posts
BEFORE you make your decision on which bike, you should decide if you want flat bars or drop bars. The frame geometry is different depending on which type of handlebar you use.

Add Thorn Sherpa to your shopping list. The only seller is SJS in the UK, but they sell mail order. It uses 26 inch (ISO 559) tires. It comes in frames sized for drop bars or for flat bars. It does not come with S&S couplers however, if you want them you would have to get them added.
https://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/Th...paBroHiRes.pdf

Photos are of my Sherpa.



At this link you will find a huge number of photos of bikes from other manufacturers.
Loaded Touring Bicycles - On Tour Photo Gallery by The Loaded Touring Bike Photo Gallery at pbase.com
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
20IMGP3649.jpg (76.1 KB, 98 views)
File Type: jpg
20IMGP4334.jpg (62.4 KB, 100 views)
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
B200Pilot
Touring
20
03-13-13 05:55 PM
Brennan
Touring
10
01-27-13 02:59 PM
xyzzy834
Touring
116
08-22-12 07:33 PM
mthayer
Touring
13
05-18-12 06:13 PM
echartier
Touring
15
11-25-11 05:07 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.