azza_333

I have been looking into rear bicycle hubs, and 99% of them seem to have alloy axles including MTB hubs. So my question is do I need a steel axle or will an alloy axle be adequate for a touring bike?

Tourist in MSN

There were some reports soon after Shimano changed from the M760 series XT rear hubs (steel axles) to the M770 series (Aluminum axles) of bearing problems on Long Haul Truckers. The Aluminum axle hubs had smaller ball bearings due to the larger size Aluminum axle, it is commonly assumed that the smaller bearings were the problem. I have never owned an Aluminum rear axle hub, my derailleur touring bikes were M760 or M752 hubs with steel axles. I suspect that the typical XT user was a mountain biker with less weight on the rear hub than the typical bike tourist, so that might be why there were not widespread reports of failures on mountain bikes.

This has been a very contentious topic, I am sure that there are opposing views out there.

You are an ultra lightweight rider, use anything you want. I do not think you would have any rear hub problems with the weight you put on the wheel. But, I have run some heavy weight on my rear wheel, I am sticking to steel axles on my derailleur bikes.

Squeezebox

Anything to say about through axles??

fietsbob

looking at the XTR MTB cross country Race bike parts you would see the light weight winning over Steel durability..




Really large diameters thick and high strength alloys & my Bullseye tandem freewheel hubs work fine. *

Axles in several pieces the core axle and 2 end caps, the bearing cartridges and a spacer as thick as the end caps support the axle.
2 tiny set screws thru the end caps touch the axle core, but, really its the QR skewer that holds it all tight.

the bearings are radial contact and run free without any effect from the end cap pressure , only touching the inside race.
Outside race is of course snugly fitting in the hubshell..

* Previous wheel set With a Phil Wood Freewheel Hub the parts were steel but for the Aluminum Spoke flanges .
The factory would replace the bearings , but it was not field serviceable..

the new PW Co hubs are 'field serviceable'.

fietsbob

As I noted Before : in the shop on a Busy summer touring destination , fancy High end stuff will require a Lay over ,

to get replacement parts shipped and installed If they Break..

as No small town shop will cater to customers with High end tastes, But..

If you keep your bike build parts to a functional Mid range pick ,

the Bike shop would be more likely to have a spare rear wheel already there ,

and can replace the wheel and get you back on the road in a couple Hours ..

Expensive stuff , the same modest wheel can still be supplied,

and Your top line hub will be cut out of the damaged Wheel, & Mailed back to your Home.

IK_biker

You should first clarify what you mean by "alloy". All steels are alloys by definition.
English as a second language?

elcruxio

On this forum alloy de facto means aluminum alloy. I don't know why, but it does.

IK_biker

I have been on this forum for 9 years, and have noticed this as well.
And unlike you, I know why:
- because lots of people tolerate it. As lots of people on these forums tolerate imprecise language overall.

Which does not sit well with me. Hence my request for clarification - in an attempt to change this behaviour.

fietsbob

Pedantic ? Shouldn't you be working instead of posting here ..

https://cleanmemes.com/wp-content/upl...antsRevolt.jpg





to really get into fussy specifics state the Nomenclature for the specific Metal

7005, 7075 , 6065.. aluminums ... 4130 or 1017 steel etc..

Materials not wanker English Majors showing off.

J.C. Koto

Yeah, I had one of the bad M770 XT hubs. Shimano has almost certainly fixed their design/manufacturing by now since, AFAICT, there haven't been many, if any, recent reports of these freehub failures but the 14mm aluminum axle hubs still put a bad taste in my mouth since the manner in which mine failed made the bike literally unrideable. It's one thing to have a bike failure in the city but another thing being stranded miles from civilization and have to either call someone for a pick-up and wait forever, hitchhike, or hoof it.
For some reason the bike industry by-and-large has decided to call aluminum "alloy" in regards to bike parts e.g. alloy frame, alloy rims, alloy axle, etc.

Doug64

I have XT aluminum, and steel axle LX hubs. I have about 6,000 miles of loaded touring on the aluminum axles. On one tour part of our route took us over 400 miles of gravel and unsurfaced roads, and also over 500 miles of cobblestone/ sett stone roads and trails. No problems at all. There is probably a total of 11-12000 total miles on the aluminum axles.

The difference in the bearings is the number and the size of the balls. The steel axle hubs use 9- 1/4" balls, while the aluminum axle hubs use 13-3/16" balls. I'm not sure what those differences mean, if any, in in terms of durability and performance.

I also think there is a lot of "urban rumor", but very little first hand experience with these hubs failing.

P.S. I'm sorry J.C. Koto, our posts must have crossed out in the ozone. You are one of the few I've actually heard of having firsthand experience. What was the nature of the failure?

J.C. Koto

Since the freehub used in the M770 XT hubs was designed to be compatible with the standard line of Shimano casettes, the outer diameter of the freehub body is the same size but since the axle is larger, the internal components needed to be smaller to accommodate. There was apparently a manufacturing problem with some of these freehubs where either the BBs or pawls would break off into the internal mechanism which would prevent the ratchet action from functioning correctly. In my specific hub the mechanism would seem to operate fine until it would suddenly alternate between acting like a fixed-gear until I hit a bump or something when it would just spin without the pawls engaging, until eventually it gave up entirely and would just spin uselessly.

Like I said, the manufacturing issue has almost certainly been fixed by now but once bitten twice shy and all that..

Tourist in MSN

I am a geological engineer, before I retired I held the professional engineer license with the mining engineer specialty. In other words, I know something about metals. But, if someone does not consider steel to be an alloy, I don't let it bother me. I do not have time to let things like that bother me, life is simpler that way.

mantelclock

I agree! For forty years or more, in accepted bicycle parlance, steel alloys have been called "steel", titanium alloys have been called titanium, and aluminum alloys have been called "alloy". Everyone here knows what it means. No clarification is necessary.

mstateglfr 

So you know exactly what the poster is asking, yet you ask for clarification in a smarmy way?
Why not just help and then offer up some info on how alloy could apply to multiple metals?

mantelclock

Do you mean people on these fora? Or are you simply using the popular, albeit imprecise, usage of the plural of forum?

tmac100

I solved this "issue" by getting PW hubs from ebay - brand new never laced... Never have had any concern.

robow

In my best Chevy Chase impersonation:

excuse me but I was told that i would never need my high school Latin on this forum

imi

Wassa problem? Alloyminium innit?

IK_biker

My, my, what depth of linguistic prowess...

However, you may want to learn that there is nothing imprecise in using "forums" as it is a perfectly valid plural form of "forum", and is in fact the more popular one in English-speaking countries.

Unless you are a Latin purist.
In which case, you better get over it soon - otherwise you may get easily upset every time you visit this site. The late Tom Stormcrowe, may he rest in peace, was not the smartest person on the planet, but he made no mistake when he named the site "bikeforums".

ThermionicScott 

"Alloy" (alternately "light alloy") has been shorthand for "aluminum alloy" in many products since at least the 1950s, and probably earlier. Anyone who wants to go around correcting people who use this colloquialism should get over themselves.

azza_333

Does anyone have any recommendations for a high end steel axle rear hub (for a MTB 10 speed cassette), and very good seals. For disc brakes.


I have also noticed the SON28 front hub has Steel axles in all its variants, except is center lock disc rotor variant. Does it matter for front hubs?

Doug64

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...9&category=740

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...8&category=740

Rowan

Your history is incorrect. If you are going to take people to task for not expressing themselves in the way you think they should, get your own facts straight. Bikeforums was started by Joe Gardiner. Tom Stormcrowe came much later, aftrer Joe sold the site to Internet Brands. Tom also had much greater smarts than you insultingly imply.

I really think you should butt out of the thread unless you have something worthwhile to contribute other than sniping.

For my part, we have XT hubs with aluminium (yep, that's what it's called in Australia and just about everywhere else in the world except the US) axles and haven't had any issues thus far after extensive sealed and gravel road riding in various places around the world. I sometimes fret about them after reading the issues when I first got them, but it's only been fleeting. I will however be interested to see what they are like inside when I first break them open in several 10s of thousands of kilometres from now...

mantelclock

No, my old fart friend, I am not a Latin purist. Far from it. But I see that you missed my point entirely, which was to poke holes in the 'purity' of language. As I pointed out in a previous post, alloy, among bicyclists, is commonly used to mean aluminum, although a metallurgical 'purist' might (and did) quibble with that. And I know that 'forums' is much more common than 'fora'. However, such use derives its 'validity' from popular usage, not from linguistic rules. I will continue to use 'alloy' for aluminum and 'forums' for more than one forum, not because they are valid, but because I want people I am communicating with to understand me.