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Chainset Question

Old 04-16-16, 08:28 AM
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Chainset Question

Dear all,

I'm building up a Genesis TdF for a Transcontinental Ride next year (Europe) and I'm at a loss as to what Chainset to put on. All of the MTB Style Groupsets that have been recommended to me (Deore / XT) offer a 42-32-22 Chainset, however I am really after a 10spd 48-36-26/22 - I want that bigger gear to push on the flat days. Most of them now seem to come with 44/42 as their biggest ring.

I've seen the 9spd FSA Alpha Trekking at this spec, but it's 9spd as opposed to 10spd.

Any advice?

Cheers
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Old 04-16-16, 08:52 AM
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You could consider a Sugino 46-36-26 and change out the last ring to a smaller ring. I know a 24 will work, not sure right off if a 22 is available with that bolt pattern and distance.

Shimano Deore M610 has your larger 48 ring and is also affordable

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/u.../rp-prod106873

Last edited by robow; 04-16-16 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 04-16-16, 08:53 AM
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Why? a 44:11 is = to a 52:13 ..

9 there is more compatibility between road & MTB components , 10 + & they diverge into separate camps.

Once you own the chainset You are free to change chainrings , the boxed component is what they ship to assembly factories

as that is what the component makers sell at the lowest cost..



(though they ship By extra packaging less reusable pallets if the 2 factories are all on the same Island within trucking distance of each other) .

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-16-16 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 04-16-16, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Why? a 44:11 is = to a 52:13 ..

9 there is more compatibility between road & MTB components , 10 + & they diverge into separate camps.

Once you own the chainset You are free to change chainrings , the boxed component is what they ship to assembly factories

as that is what the component makers sell at the lowest cost..



(though they ship By extra packaging less reusable pallets if the 2 factories are all on the same Island within trucking distance of each other) .
But 48-11 isnt equal to 44-11.
And are there a lot of 9 or 10speed cassettes geared towards touring that start with a 13t cog?...i am not aware , but admittedly i dont search them out since i dont want one starting with 13t.

The OP mentioned 48t for the large ring and your comparison used a 52t ring. Odd.
@Loobes - the m590 crank is 48-36-26. wiggle.com | Shimano - FC-M590 Deore 9-Speed 48/36/26T Triple Crankset | MTB Cranksets
Relatively cheap price too.
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Old 04-16-16, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Loobes
I've seen the 9spd FSA Alpha Trekking at this spec, but it's 9spd as opposed to 10spd.
nothing wrong with 9 speed.
if you're satisfied with FSA quality, and they got the gearing you want.........
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Old 04-16-16, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Loobes
I am really after a 10spd 48-36-26/22
Shimano Trekking XT offers what you are looking for. Available in Europe.
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Old 04-16-16, 10:22 PM
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Still Why the 4:1 + gear ratio what do you need a 100"+GIi For? On A Bike tour?
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Old 04-16-16, 10:33 PM
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A 44 11 will hit about 28 mph at 90 rpm. I don't know too many folks that can sustain that speed on the flat for very long. I run a 44/32/22 and an 11- 34. I've often wondered if a lower gear would be nice to have, but have never missed the higher gears.

Last edited by Doug64; 04-16-16 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 04-16-16, 10:47 PM
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I agree Doug, I only use a 46 as my big ring simply because over time I have found that I spend the majority of my time in my big ring and that 46 puts me right in the middle of my cassette most of the time. While touring, I can't say I've ever wanted a 48 with my 11t. and only very rarely with even my road bike since I can't sustain greater than 30 mph in that 46x11 unless I've got a huge wind rippin at my back.
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Old 04-17-16, 12:54 AM
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Thanks for the responses everyone. 46T does seem to be a very viable option - I wasn't aware they existed.

I can see now that there are a range of advantages to 9spd - cost and compatibility to name two.

It terms of wanting a 48T vs 42/44T - The major tour that I'm planning is flat for the first and last thirds, with the alps in between. I may see if i can borrow a bike with 44-11 on to see what it's like; I guess when you're used to roadie gearing (52-36), it just seems like a strange concept. However I admit I won't be travelling that light, so may appreciate the smaller gearing.

Cheers
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Old 04-17-16, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Loobes
Thanks for the responses everyone. 46T does seem to be a very viable option - I wasn't aware they existed.

I can see now that there are a range of advantages to 9spd - cost and compatibility to name two.

It terms of wanting a 48T vs 42/44T - The major tour that I'm planning is flat for the first and last thirds, with the alps in between. I may see if i can borrow a bike with 44-11 on to see what it's like; I guess when you're used to roadie gearing (52-36), it just seems like a strange concept. However I admit I won't be travelling that light, so may appreciate the smaller gearing.

Cheers
I was the same when I built my first touring bike, but I followed the gear inch range most often suggested on this forum, 20-100 GI, and it's worked out pretty well with or without a load. I use a 22-32-44 with an 8S 11-30 cassette. Hopefully you can find a bike that will duplicate the GIs of a 44 / 11, ~108 GI.

Brad
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Old 04-17-16, 05:23 AM
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Not clear to me how one should go about deciding on gear range.

For one thing, the design assumes that we are usually riding on the middle chainring (which is reinforced), not he big one. So one could say that the decision is actually between 36/34/32.

Second, it may be fair to say that extreme ratios (48/46/44x11 ; 26/24/22X34) are rarely used anyway. I rarely ride at 48x11, but I do, sometimes, going downhill. Just as I rarely need to reach for the lowest ratio -- 26x34 in my case.

I certainly agree with posts above, saying that we sometimes wish for lower gears. But I honestly don't know if moving to a lower ratio would have been enough. I've purchased a 22T chainring to eventually replace the 26T on my 48-36-26. Not clear if the FD will manage the 26T difference.

Last edited by gauvins; 04-17-16 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 04-17-16, 08:07 AM
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Not clear if the FD will manage the 26T difference.


Install it and see rather than speculate , perhaps ?



Back when Shimano had a replaceable spider on their crank , a company* made a copy *(gone now)

of it with various 5 arm spiders , 110 58 allowed that 48-36-22 combo.. it seems to work on my installation.

(i have a 13~32t freewheel on the back..) its has been fine for 10 years.

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-17-16 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 04-17-16, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob

Install it and see rather than speculate , perhaps ?
yes yes yes.

But I must find the time to do it! First I have to install a USB charger (and build a Troll for my older daughter).

(with some luck, maybe 2 weeks from now.)
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Old 04-18-16, 11:22 PM
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I replaced the xt 44 outer ring with a saint 46. The 2 extra teeth make a differance. The saint ring up shifts a little slow, but down shifts fast. you can run a 10 speed cassette on a 9 speed crank if need be. You will want the 22 ring in the middle third.

xt 773 front derailluer can handle a 2 tooth change. 4 extra teeth may not fit in the cage.

Last edited by chrisx; 04-18-16 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 04-19-16, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Loobes
It terms of wanting a 48T vs 42/44T - The major tour that I'm planning is flat for the first and last thirds, with the alps in between. I may see if i can borrow a bike with 44-11 on to see what it's like; I guess when you're used to roadie gearing (52-36), it just seems like a strange concept. However I admit I won't be travelling that light, so may appreciate the smaller gearing.

Cheers
this is the key, until you've done some riding on a 50 or 60 or 70 or more lb bike, its hard to see how your take on gearing from a light road bike is very different. It really comes down to how heavy your bike+load total will be, combined with the terrain.
I ride on 42/32/22 and 50/39/26 bikes, commute and have toured on both, on flatty stuff and in mountainous stuff as well. The only downside to a mtn crank 44/32/22 is that sometimes the 32 can be a bit small as the ring that you spend a lot of your time in, so if you find yourself going faster than 25kph a lot, you may have to shift to the big ring more often than a crankset like the 48/36/26 ones.
On my 50/39/26 bike (was 50/39/30, changed the granny) the majority of the time on the flats I'm on the 39, but a smaller ring like a 36 would be nicer with headwinds and whatnot. The 48/36/26 changed to a 24 granny could work very well possibly for you.

bottom line is that with a much heavier bike (whatever your load will be) it very very much increases the work you have to do to accelerate, hold a given speed and especially, the work required to get up hills, and smaller chainrings are the way to go. Your average speed will also go down, but mostly when climbing slight or not so slight inclines.

if you do borrow a bike with a mtn crank, for it to be a useful test, you really have to bike around with 30-40lbs of stuff on the bike to see how it will be touring--- I dont know London enough, but find the steepest hills you can to see how it is climbing, and then try to imagine climbing day after day, or when you are tired, hungry, hungover--whatever, and take that into account too.

cheers
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Old 04-19-16, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by gauvins
Not clear to me how one should go about deciding on gear range.

For one thing, the design assumes that we are usually riding on the middle chainring (which is reinforced), not he big one. So one could say that the decision is actually between 36/34/32.

Second, it may be fair to say that extreme ratios (48/46/44x11 ; 26/24/22X34) are rarely used anyway. I rarely ride at 48x11, but I do, sometimes, going downhill. Just as I rarely need to reach for the lowest ratio -- 26x34 in my case.

I certainly agree with posts above, saying that we sometimes wish for lower gears. But I honestly don't know if moving to a lower ratio would have been enough. I've purchased a 22T chainring to eventually replace the 26T on my 48-36-26. Not clear if the FD will manage the 26T difference.
Hi there. I know you're an analytical sort of guy, but it really just comes down to getting out to Vieux Quebec with all your stuff on your bike, and throwing on some extra stuff that invariably will happen (have to carry someone elses pannier, or a bunch of extra food) during your trip, and seeing how it is going up some of the steep roads down there.

I can't remember if you've said how its been with your 26x34 low with your bike loaded. If your 22 does go on alright, the 14t jump will be okay. I rode a touring bike with a 16t jump for many years, a bit too much, and the 13t jump I have on my 50/39/26 is ok, you just have to usually shift up two gears at the back when you go down from the mid ring to the granny gear--but thats not a real problem for the lower gears you get.

good luck with the FD. I suspect it will be ok, my 9 speed tiagra FD handled the 4 tooth diff from the 30t to the 26t with no problems.

and all the best with your preparations for the trip, including the Troll work.
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Old 04-19-16, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Still Why the 4:1 + gear ratio what do you need a 100"+GIi For? On A Bike tour?
I use my bikes for multiple purposes. Many people(most perhaps?) do the same. Its one of the reasons why a triple is so great. a 48-38-26 triple with an 11-32 cassette allows me to ride the bike loaded up with panniers, to the grocery store pulling a cargo trailer, on light packed day trips, and on fun rides with friends/family. The gearing is versatile enough to ensure that the only reason I cant do something is because of my own limitation(s) and not the bike's.
I dont use 48-11 often, but I also dont use 26-32 often. Its great to have both though.
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Old 04-19-16, 07:58 AM
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I use triples , too Just never needed the 11 0r 12 ty cog on any bike with regular sized wheels ,

A 95 inch gear* was always sufficient for a High < never felt i Deeded a 114" one.

50:14 in a 35-622 wheel.
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Old 04-19-16, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by djb
I can't remember if you've said how its been with your 26x34 low with your bike loaded.
So far so good. I can sustain 7% forever. I've stalled on very steep streets only twice (when in Quebec, try Gilmore ) I've noticed that I tend to shift frequently in order to maintain cadence, such that I've pushed 26x34 more often than I'd wished -- once you are there, that's it. Press more or walk. This is why I am considering 22x34.

I am not clear whether 22x34 would be such a great improvement, though. Obviously there would be a significant reduction in lower gear inches. OTOH I guess that Shimano has optimized it's drivetrain and tinkering may end up degrading performance. Not only in terms of derailleur capacity, but also wrt gear ratios. I've noticed that 48-36-26 x 11-34 gives perfectly staggered gear-inch ratios -- very limited duplication. Lowering to 22 and several combinations become near duplicates.

There are bigger problems in the world, so not to worry.

Last edited by gauvins; 04-19-16 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 04-19-16, 08:16 AM
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don't count on shimano to optimize anything....for you. they optimize
from a marketing standpoint. what sells the bestest? it surely ain't
touring gear. that's just an afterthought....oh, by the way, you crazy
touring guys can use this stuff too, if you're not too particular.

you gots to decide what works for you. mtb gearing for the most part
is sufficient (NOT optimal, but it works) for my needs. slightly more
"mature" than the average cyclist, light touring (20-25 pounds of stuff),
long days, sometimes in the mountains, sometimes long stretches of
flatland through the dessert, sometimes on dirt roads or trails.

22-32-44 with an 11-32 cassette works for most situations.
can pedal seated uphill for hours on a 9-10% grade, go a
short distance 12-14%. anything steeper, gotta push.
would love a 20:36 but don't want to pay the price if available.
hardly ever use the big ring. would replace with a 40 if i could
find it. and the 11t and 13t are rarely used. good enough but
not optimized for my touring.
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Old 04-19-16, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by gauvins
So far so good. I can sustain 7% forever. I've stalled on very steep streets only twice (when in Quebec, try Gilmore ) I've noticed that I tend to shift frequently in order to maintain cadence, such that I've pushed 26x34 more often than I'd wished -- once you are there, that's it. Press more or walk. This is why I am considering 22x34.

I am not clear whether 22x34 would be such a great improvement, though. Obviously there would be a significant reduction in lower gear inches. OTOH I guess that Shimano has optimized it's drivetrain and tinkering may end up degrading performance. Not only in terms of derailleur capacity, but also wrt gear ratios. I've noticed that 48-36-26 x 11-34 gives perfectly staggered gear-inch ratios -- very limited duplication. Lowering to 22 and several combinations become near duplicates.

There are bigger problems in the world, so not to worry.
chuckle, indeed.

I would add, dont worry too much about duplication, if you think you need a bit lower, put the 22 on and see. In general, teh duplication thing isnt an issue, you use the granny up to about mid cassette or so, and the switch up to the mid ring, so not really back and forthing, but if a lower low will help (when tired, carrying more food, arent feeling well) then great. I know you are not doing the Alps, but you may very well hit some short steep stuff. Anyway, you've got the 22, try it and see, you can switch if if you dont like it.
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Old 04-19-16, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
I use triples , too Just never needed the 11 0r 12 ty cog on any bike with regular sized wheels ,

A 95 inch gear* was always sufficient for a High < never felt i Deeded a 114" one.

50:14 in a 35-622 wheel.

I would love a 9 speed cassette that starts in 13 and goes to 32.
Instead of 11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32 i could have something like 13-14-15-17-29-21-25-28-32 where the jumps are tighter in the 6 smallest cogs. I would presumably use more gear options on the 3x9 than i currently use and be in the large ring more often(day rides on flat or slight decline). 48-13 at 80rpm is 24mph and much more useful than how my cassette is currently set up.

...but a 13-32 cassette isnt made for 9 speed from what I can see. Itd be neat if cassettes could be custom spec'd for only a handful more dollars than stock. I think a lot of people would change how their bike's gearing is set up.
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Old 04-19-16, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
...Hopefully you can find a bike that will duplicate the GIs of a 44 / 11, ~108 GI.
A 52:13 will duplicate the 44:11. I should have remembered that.

Originally Posted by gauvins
Not clear to me how one should go about deciding on gear range...
With all of the different terrains, rider strengths, and differences in weight loading there isn't a very good formula to work from. Experience is the only way to personally adjust from the 20-100 GI suggestion for a touring bike. For the record, my original plan was to use a 30-42-52 crank set with a 13-27 cassette, which would have been fine for most of my lightly loaded rides, but would've had me walking some of the short, but steep hills with a +30ish lb. load.

I tend to use the big chain ring more than the middle regardless of which bike I'm on, except for the mountain bike.

Brad
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Old 04-19-16, 11:17 AM
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Junior racing cassettes are harder to find but to limit the gearing for growing children they are Made .

Touring, The K 7 speed Cassette was Superb, adding more cogs to have 9 really was more marketing than need driven.
13~ 34 with a 29 t next to the big one .. Mega range jumps from a 24 to a 34.




50,40, 24t triple (13~34, 6 speed freewheel was fine for my decade of Tours)
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