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Katy in Crisis

Old 04-20-16, 10:08 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by MassiveD
Here it is, this one is a few pounds over the weight limit.
no fair showing a picture of an atv that's NOT allowed on the trail. to be a valid
example, show us the atv's that are/would be allowed.

otherwise we can start complaining about all the addictions, habits, and various
syndromes that are legally termed "disabilities" under the relevant acts.

thus.......suppose i'm a 17-year old heavy gamer, and can claim internet
addiction is a disability under the ADA, them i'm legally allowed to drive an
ATV on the trail? (ok, fine. just substitute smoking and nicotine)

sure, we think we know the bill is probably supposed to mean X, but as
written Y will be allowed.

*quick googles found this "Examples of conditions that are impairments: AIDS, and its symptoms; Alcoholism; "

awesome! joe six-pack and his hunting buddies will legally be permitted
under this bill to drive their atv's on the katy, if they can show themselves
to be alcoholics.

Last edited by saddlesores; 04-20-16 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 04-20-16, 10:28 PM
  #27  
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Not to be so cynical, but I see it just as an entry into opening the trail up to bigger and "better?" motorized vehicles. How can you restrict it by age, that would never fly. And believe me, there are plenty of R2T's that already see illegal use of motorized bikes and ATV's. Last year up in northern Michigan, a couple of us had a near collision with a couple young local boys on their dirt bikes and they had to be doing 40+ mph. Make them legal for one small segment of the population and I'm betting you see increased illegal use since there is no one to police these trails hardly at all.
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Old 04-21-16, 07:06 AM
  #28  
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I'm not familiar with the Katy trail, but will relate some of my experiences with similar type trails here in Montreal and the area.
There is an ex rail line turned to trail here called Le Petit Train du Nord, most of it is crushed stone surface and does not allowed motorized vehicles on it (it might allow electric scooters though--more on that shortly). In the areas close to Montreal, this trail does get used by a lot of day riders, especially on nice days, and its nice that the dirt surface is in good shape pretty much anywhere (ie , no atv's)

on the subject of seniors, max speed of 15mph , which I figure is the speed limit for our bike paths in Montreal (25kph?) I have noticed that over the last 5, 6, 7,8 years, there are a lot more retired folks out on the bike paths that go along a canal here in Montreal, riding either 2 or 4 wheeled electric scooters. Yes, there are more than before, and sometimes when it is busy I worry a bit about a much heavier scooter hitting a kid on a bike or something, but really, all in all, its good to see the old geezers getting out on a nice day, and it really isnt a problem sharing the bike path with them.

I understand the concern for dirtbikes, atv's and young guys being stupid, but I certainly see the benefit of sharing paths with electric stuff and especially older folks that allows them to get out and have fun, and sharing a path isn't a problem in my experience, so for me, it's all good.
The more people out enjoying themselves outside is always good, and that the very small minority of dumbasses shouldnt be a detraction of happily sharing the path with some folks listening to Elvis on their clip on radios (thats a stereotype but we always chuckle after someone like this goes by us on their electric scooter--but hey, bless their hearts, they are getting out and having fun--it'll be all of us one day!!)
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Old 04-21-16, 07:32 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by robow
Not to be so cynical, but I see it just as an entry into opening the trail up to bigger and "better?" motorized vehicles. How can you restrict it by age, that would never fly. And believe me, there are plenty of R2T's that already see illegal use of motorized bikes and ATV's. Last year up in northern Michigan, a couple of us had a near collision with a couple young local boys on their dirt bikes and they had to be doing 40+ mph. Make them legal for one small segment of the population and I'm betting you see increased illegal use since there is no one to police these trails hardly at all.
There is a guy that regularly rides around Pontiac on a non-road legal dirtbike (no plates or lights), popping wheelies, blowing red lights, weaving in and out of traffic much faster than legal. I've seen him numerous times on my way to and from work. You're going to have jerks all the time, deal with them when you come across them. That doesn't mean if the restrictions listed above are true, that allowing seniors out two days a month that everyone else will take it as open season to go hog wild. I tend to agree with @djb, if it allows those who are less mobile, who pay taxes to upkeep the trail, the ability to use the trail, I fail to see the harm.
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Old 04-21-16, 08:17 AM
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Understand, I'm not anti-geezer, heck, I'm entering that demographic myself. You must understand what many of of these R2T's consist of. There is no asphalt base here but a mere crushed limestone that is not immune to rutting even with just bikes and routine flooding. Fortunately these trails like the Katy require fairly low maintenance which is great because so few municipalities have any money to maintain them. Federal and state matching funds were used to help build them but nothing is available to help maintain them. Had these trails been designed in the beginning to handle these types of weights and torque associated with ATV's, no problem, but they weren't and I'm afraid that just like a R2T near here and some in Wisconsin that I've seen, eventually they'll take a beating and will become too expensive to repair.
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Old 04-21-16, 09:32 AM
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One potential solution to maintenance costs is a nominal use fee like there is for the Mickelson Trail in South Dakota. You need one if you are 12 or older except when riding within city limits. Current charge is $4/day or $15 for an annual pass.

SD GFP | State Parks | Directory | Mickelson Trail | Rules

I didn't mind such a nominal fee for such a great resource.
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Old 04-21-16, 10:46 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
One potential solution to maintenance costs is a nominal use fee

I didn't mind such a nominal fee for such a great resource.
I agree, and I know Wisconsin charges a similar fee but here in corrupt Illinois, God only knows where the fees would end up.
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Old 04-21-16, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MassiveD
Canada thinks it has this thing called the Trans Canada Trail, and the section I tried to use that is the old rail line is all ruined by ATVs. Frankly it might be the better use. Allows locals to connect, while the number of cyclists using it was zero when I went through. In the cities, yeah, but in the country, the roads are basically a better experience. But I am certainly anti ATV on a narrow trail they churned it up, and one person on an ATV can ruin the trail for all the other users. This is the notorious section that burst my Schwalbe Marathon casing.
Which section of the Trans Canada is that?

Cheers
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Old 04-21-16, 03:39 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by robow
Please don't take me so seriously, I know I don't.
Sorry!!
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