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Son 28 Dynamo plus Schmidt Edelux II headlight ... anything better than this combo?

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Son 28 Dynamo plus Schmidt Edelux II headlight ... anything better than this combo?

Old 04-23-16, 09:57 AM
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Son 28 Dynamo plus Schmidt Edelux II headlight ... anything better than this combo?

I have a new Surly Long Haul Trucker and am busy customising it. I'm keen to add a dynamo hub to power a front light and perhaps charge a mobile/cell phone. I know very little about Dynamo hubs, but have googled and the above combo seems to get good reviews.

I will be getting a Dinotte rear light (Dinotte Quad) .... I'm not sure how a Dynamo would charge that during the day, as it micro USB Charging system

Is there any better combo?
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Old 04-23-16, 10:55 AM
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Son 28 Dynamo plus Schmidt Edelux II headlight ... anything better than this combo?

I have the eDelux 1 2 of them , it is fine , they kept working on getting more Light output, thus the version 2

I have a Hub they now call the Classic.. My taillight on 1 is a 4D toplight Senso Plus.

Son Delux Hub 20" version in my Bike friday , toplight line taillight .. Wired

and now the SON XS new version In my Brompton wheel , another wired toplight line taillight..
its got a B&M Eyc T senso.. on it, its mounted closer to the ground..

I dont have I toys to charge.. but I Do Know you turn off the light when You want to charge stuff..



B&M make a headlight that includes the Output to charge stuff, AxA does Too ..

others make Black boxes to do that..

The top of the Line Ortlieb handlebar bag has a set of electrical contacts,
so you can tuck a Black Box converter and the widgets you are charging In It. ,
and the disconnect is just taking the bag off it's handlebar Mount .

these sell well ...
https://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-s...iq2-luxos.html

case partially Plastic, top is aluminum for the Heat sink (Cu) to contact and further dissipate.

Schmidt is all aluminum , now they make a version of a tiny rack taillight

Using B&M Optics B&M has its own https://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-r...ine-small.html

at lower cost.. Schmidt uses an aluminum housing, & their CoAx wire.

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-23-16 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 04-23-16, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
I have the eDelux 1 2 of them , it is fine , they kept working on getting more Light output, thus the version 2

I have a Hub they now call the Classic.. My taillight on 1 is a 4D toplight Senso Plus.

Son Delux Hub 20" version in my Bike friday , toplight line taillight .. Wired

and now the SON XS new version In my Brompton wheel , another wired toplight line taillight..
its got a B&M Eyc T senso.. on it, its mounted closer to the ground..

I dont have I toys to charge.. but I Do Know you turn off the light when You want to charge stuff..



B&M make a headlight that includes the Output to charge stuff, AxA does Too ..

others make Black boxes to do that..

The top of the Line Ortlieb handlebar bag has a set of electrical contacts,
so you can tuck a Black Box converter and the widgets you are charging In It. ,
and the disconnect is just taking the bag off it's handlebar Mount .

these sell well ...
Busch & Müller: LUMOTEC IQ2 LUXOS

case partially Plastic, top is aluminum for the Heat sink (Cu) to contact and further dissipate.

Schmidt is all aluminum , now they make a version of a tiny rack taillight

Using B&M Optics B&M has its own Busch & Müller: TOPLIGHT Line Small

at lower cost.. Schmidt uses an aluminum housing, & their CoAx wire.
thanks fietsbob .... I have bookmarked this thread and will check your recomendations
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Old 04-23-16, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dim
....I'm keen to add a dynamo hub to power a front light ...
...perhaps charge a mobile/cell phone. ...
I will be getting a Dinotte rear light (Dinotte Quad)
.... I'm not sure how a Dynamo would charge that during the day, as it micro USB Charging system

...
Should I assume that you are not trying to minimize costs? You appear to have selected some rather expensive items.

I use a different light that has a built in USB charger. But before I bought that I considered a Sinewave Revolution USB charger. From the specifications the Revolution appears to be one of the best, but it lacks a cache battery so you would want to plan on adding one of those too. Sinewave also makes a USB charger that replaces the stem cap.

Being in the UK, it might be easier to find a B&M USB charger than the Sinewave which is sold by the manufacturer in the USA.
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Old 04-24-16, 09:38 AM
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I have looked at the dyno hubs but they won't work very well in my application. I am a ham radio operator and ride with hand held radios also. Everything I have - radios, phone, tablet - all runs on 12v. That makes it relatively easy to work with because standard 12v car/cigarette lighter adapter plugs work for these devices, which I use every day in my truck also. The down side is it requires an auxiliary method to keep powered.

I got in to biking from backpacking so I have all my gear set from my backpacking adventures. What I developed is a solar power system using panels, like over-size bumper stickers, from PowerFilm (PowerFilm - lightweight, thin, flexible solar panels). I use the solar panels to charge a 12v battery which in turn is the power source for the other devices. I used to use a 7Ah SLA but the one I had went dead and I replaced it before my backpacking trip in the Appalachians over New Years with a 9Ah - same size case, a bit more wattage.

I can get through a whole day without needing a recharge, so with my rides being single day rides so far I don't need to re-charge, but on the backpacking trips I roll out some solar panels in camp and get some charge going.

I have been looking in to the feasibility of boosting the dyno voltage to try and get some charge current in to the battery, but I would have to get the voltage up to 14v or so to have any meaningful ability to push power back in to a 12v battery, which the charge voltage is up around 13-13.5v. With the power output so low on a dyno anyway, by the time the voltage is boosted, the current available will be very low. The SON dynos appear to be 6v units with wattage outputs of ~3-6.5 watts between 15-20kph/9.3-12.4mph. That isn't much to work with. At a 100% (impossible) efficiency that would be 214-464mA at 14 volts. Then factor in the efficiency of the conversion back to 14v and that takes even more available current way.
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Old 04-24-16, 11:06 AM
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B&M used to make a 12V Bottle Dynamo.... Maybe you can find them on that Auction site.
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Old 04-24-16, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Should I assume that you are not trying to minimize costs? You appear to have selected some rather expensive items.

I use a different light that has a built in USB charger. But before I bought that I considered a Sinewave Revolution USB charger. From the specifications the Revolution appears to be one of the best, but it lacks a cache battery so you would want to plan on adding one of those too. Sinewave also makes a USB charger that replaces the stem cap.

Being in the UK, it might be easier to find a B&M USB charger than the Sinewave which is sold by the manufacturer in the USA.
I plan on keeping my LHT for very long so I don't mind paying good money for good items .... I already have spent a fair bit on a few items (£180 for a Gilles Berthoud Aravis saddle plus the proofhide plus the rain cover, £70 for Velo Orange stainless steel fenders/mudguards, £80 for 2 Klean Kanteen reflect stainless bottles plus cages, £23 for a Crane mini Suzu brass bell)...

still a few items to get (Sigma Rox 10.0 computer, racks, Carradice Super C pannier bags, Dinotte rear light Dynamo hub and front light)

this bike is becoming very expensive
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Old 04-24-16, 12:03 PM
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The B&M headlights store stand light power to run their tail lights (and headlight) for a few minutes when you stop. Several models turn on automatically when it gets dark (including deep shadows, overpasses, tunnels, etc.), or just leave them on. I would recommend the Son Delux hubs because they are smoother and less drag (minute as it is), but you need to be going maybe 5Mph instead of 3mph to get them full bright.

If you insist on a blinkie, then get that in addition to the steady light of the B&M, not instead of. There is no one more anal about lighting design requirements than Germany, and they require steady lights for good reason.
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Old 04-24-16, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dim
I plan on keeping my LHT for very long so I don't mind paying good money for good items .... I already have spent a fair bit on a few items (£180 for a Gilles Berthoud Aravis saddle plus the proofhide plus the rain cover, £70 for Velo Orange stainless steel fenders/mudguards, £80 for 2 Klean Kanteen reflect stainless bottles plus cages, £23 for a Crane mini Suzu brass bell)...

still a few items to get (Sigma Rox 10.0 computer, racks, Carradice Super C pannier bags, Dinotte rear light Dynamo hub and front light)

this bike is becoming very expensive
Based on that, my previous comments are applicable regarding Sinewave for a USB charger (and also a cache battery). Or since it may be easier for you to procure in the UK, the B&M USB charger. I have nothing negative to say on your other selections. I also use a battery powered tailllight, which I prefer over one powered by the hub.
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Old 04-25-16, 12:36 AM
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I found something that will charge an i-phone or USB ....

[h=1]The Plug III[/h]
Review: Tout Terrain The Plug III - CyclingAbout CyclingAbout

I will get a quote today for the Son 28, Edelux II and the Tout terrain Plug III fitted/installed
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Old 04-25-16, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dim
I found something that will charge an i-phone or USB ....

The Plug III


Review: Tout Terrain The Plug III - CyclingAbout CyclingAbout

I will get a quote today for the Son 28, Edelux II and the Tout terrain Plug III fitted/installed
Consider the E-werk as an alternative.

USB ports can get rusty.

The E-werk port cables are replaceable.

I buy mine from Search Results

What would you do if your Plug internal terminals get rusty?

There are lots of options that will work.

I get by with my Son28, Edelux 1 and E-werk with cache battery.
Oh and a Philips Lumiring tail-light.

Good luck with your purchase decision.

Last edited by rifraf; 04-25-16 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 04-25-16, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rifraf
Consider the E-werk as an alternative.

USB ports can get rusty.

The E-werk port cables are replaceable.

I buy mine from Search Results

What would you do if your Plug internal terminals get rusty?
thanks for that.... I will have a close look
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Old 04-25-16, 09:14 AM
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Au plate is popular on electrical contact surfaces because it does not Corrode..
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Old 04-25-16, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Au plate is popular on electrical contact surfaces because it does not Corrode..
I can't comment on which units utilise Au plate but I live coastal so corrosion is always an issue to keep on top of.

Assuming your suggesting the Plug utilises Au plate on its contact surfaces, might the plate not wear from repeated plugging/unplugging?

I've no idea personally.

I mentioned it as I've replaced once my E-werk cables due to corrosion and know the OP's UK climate from once living there.

They used a lot of salt on the roads in winter was my experience and cars rust out very quickly.

I do seem to remember the Sinewave unit offering gold plate on their USB plugs.

I liked the fact that I could purchase replacement cables around 4 years down the track and my E-werk appears to be working good as new.

No opinions on the other brands as I've not personally used them.

Edit: Actually I do have an opinion. The E-werk bought today is the same as the one sold from at least 5 years
ago. The Plug is a mk 3 I believe. If the plug stops working, where do you go for parts? No suggestion you'll need any, but I do know where to go to get parts for the E-werk and they were easy to find. Based on this I'd be inclined to buy the same and indeed I did do, buying another E-werk and Son28 for my Extrawheel trailer 2014

Last edited by rifraf; 04-25-16 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 04-25-16, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dim
I found something that will charge an i-phone or USB ....

The Plug III


Review: Tout Terrain The Plug III - CyclingAbout CyclingAbout

I will get a quote today for the Son 28, Edelux II and the Tout terrain Plug III fitted/installed
fantastic website if i were getting a bike built that plug 3 would be installed for sure the primium range in Bush N muller is supposed to be the dogs.best of luck with your dream bike its gonna look super cool.
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Old 04-25-16, 11:02 AM
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Does not 'the Plug' come with a rubber plug that goes in when some cable is not plugged into it?

Looks like it in pictures .. but there is aways Tape ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-25-16 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 04-25-16, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Does not 'the Plug' come with a rubber plug that goes in when some cable is not plugged into it?

Looks like it in pictures ..
The Garmin Edge units have plugs too but its not hard to find complaints of corroded plug terminals.

I'm sure the Plug is a decent unit.

It should be being the third iteration.

It certainly is a tidy arrangement.

Being that it is dearer than the E-werk, what do you do for parts or where do you go for a fix once the warranty is over?
There were complaints about the need for a high speed to get any charge from one of the earlier versions but I've not heard much of the latest one either good nor bad.

I think its always good to look at all the options.

I don't dislike the Plug except that its needed improving twice already whilst other brands have simply plodded on with their originals, which for me inspire a little more confidence.

Edit: Ok it appears the guts of the unit is replaceable being a Pat 11 cable so that answers my question
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cinq5-plug-pat-pat-power-cable-for-the-plug-ii-prod27694/?geoc=au
and not too dear.

The link to the review in an above thread mentions the improvements in the latest model addressing the
charge/speed issues.

"
The Plug III differs from its predecessor, The Plug II, by achieving USB’s 5V/500mA current at lower speeds. The Plug III hits 5V at speeds 2km/h lower than the previous model and 7-10km/h slower than models before that. This product is like a fine wine; only getting better with time."

I believe the E-werk charges at slower speeds with mine making my Garmin Edge "power disconnected" message turn off around 7kmph

I'm a slow rider so what I've got suits me fine.

Others will prefer the smart tidy looks of the Plug.

Theres no "right/wrong" solution, merely tastes.

Last edited by rifraf; 04-25-16 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 04-25-16, 11:35 AM
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Di-electric grease allows conductivity as it covers things from, as desired? .. corrosion ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silico...lectric_grease
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Old 04-25-16, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Di-electric grease allows conductivity as it covers things from, as desired? .. corrosion ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silico...lectric_grease
Thanks for the tip, I'll look into some of that
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Old 04-25-16, 05:34 PM
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I used the Son 28 & edelux 2 on my Troll & have switched it onto each succesive bike that has become my preferred ride over the last 3 years. Zero complaints, and for night time urban riding, I can see its reflection in street signs 3 blocks ahead. I also have the sinewave revolution but have not field tested it much yet as my work schedule has prevented longer tours so far.... Gotta get some more time off...
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Old 04-25-16, 08:19 PM
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I may be alone here, but I have a SA XL-FDD. Costs less than half of a SON and comes with everlasting FREE brakes, needing NO adjustment. It has 18.000 miles now. A bearing went at 17,000. The heavy fork you need isn't free. doh

I have the DToplight Plus from Peter White. Very bright and more visible from all around I believe. One guy riding up from behind said he could see it way back on a sunny day.

I really like the Edelux light also. The E-II will be even better.

My last Sigma 16.12 speedometer has a thermometer, darned handy. Dyad rims are the best.
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Old 04-25-16, 09:09 PM
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I have the SON 28 with the Luxos U, and Toplight line pro taillight, all purchased from Peter White Cycles in the US, on my Trek 520, and I toured 74 days with it non stop across Canada last summer. Ah, the memories! Very good head light, and I was told a couple times by motorists that the tail light was very visible and better than those f%#king blinkie lights! It comes with a USB charge port. Depending on where you are intending on touring, you may or may not benefit from the charger. (I have never been to the UK, but I am going in the spring of next year) In my experience, one has to be mindful of WHEN a dynamo charges. Meaning, it only charges when you have sustained speed of minimum 20 km/hr. When bicycling in very hilly or mountainous country, going uphill you likely will not be able to sustain that speed-especially if you have some load. Of course downhill, you will reach good speed, but the cache battery charges first, THEN switches over to charge your device- PROVIDED you are still going 20 + km/hr. So, if you will be riding in hilly or mountainous country, start off with a fully charged device in the morning, plug in and just leave it. It will maintain or diminish at a slower pace rather than not plugging in and deciding at 40% it's time to plug in. By that time, you likely will fully discharge, if its a hilly day, and your still far from stopping for the evening. If you are relatively flat it'll work just fine. BUT it does charge slow...at 1 amp. I now carry a GOAL ZERO lantern which has a USB port and can charge my iPhone several times, and I also have a Cobra JumPack, 7500 mAh battery, which can charge my device many times, has a flashlight, and can jump start a dead car battery. yes, I have verified this. It is the same size as my iPhone, only about 50% thicker, and weighs 295 grams. On Peter Whites website, he has copious amounts of info on lights, and their beam patterns. I suggest looking there before buying. Besides that if you delve deeper into his website, he is hilarious with his comedy of WMD's.
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Old 04-25-16, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by LuckySailor
In my experience, one has to be mindful of WHEN a dynamo charges. Meaning, it only charges when you have sustained speed of minimum 20 km/hr.
Sounds like something wrong with your setup.

20kmph?

I'd throw mine out if I had to be doing 20kmph.

I'm certainly not tempted to purchase the Luxos U if your experience is anything to go by.

The only time I'd get near that speed is downhill sections.

My E-werk/Son28 combo starts pumping out some power around 7 kmph.

Its undulating country around here and my system has no issue keeping on top of my Garmin Edge unit.

Great that your system works for your needs but I couldn't see the occasional 20kmph I see on downhill sections working for me.

Might you be talking about 20kmph is the speed you need to be doing to get a charge when you have the lights on?
Or its fullest power perhaps?





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Old 04-26-16, 01:17 AM
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riffraff, I have taken out the instructions to review. According to the instructions that came with the light and usb, the USB is rated for 5 V up to 1 amp. The instructions for the dynamo state that the unit puts out 3 watts. (I'm not an electrician and don't really understand watts, amps, etc.) It is not recommended to charge and have the headlight on at the same time, which is probably what I was doing thinking about this retrospectively. It is very distinct when the iPhone gets power to charge, as there is an audible signal. Once the cache battery is fully charged the audible signal indicates the charge mode, and that happened sometime after 18 km/hr, so I attempted to stay at minimum 20 km/hr. On tour my daily average speed was always around 23 kmph, so really, I was just barely getting the job done-although it doesn't matter if I averaged 30 km/hr, the dynamo will only produce 3 watts.
The system only barely met my needs on tour. I wasn't blown away with the performance-BUT as I say I was pushing the limits attempting to charge, and operate head and tail light.
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Old 04-26-16, 05:23 AM
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Location: Zorneding, Germany
Posts: 3,057

Bikes: Norwid Aaland, Radon Slide 140, Elom 505 Titan, Dahon mju, Pedalforce CX1, Battaglin Power+, Old MTB and lots of spare parts

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Originally Posted by KC8QVO
I have looked at the dyno hubs but they won't work very well in my application. I am a ham radio operator and ride with hand held radios also. Everything I have - radios, phone, tablet - all runs on 12v. That makes it relatively easy to work with because standard 12v car/cigarette lighter adapter plugs work for these devices, which I use every day in my truck also. The down side is it requires an auxiliary method to keep powered.
Since you are looking for 12V options to charge your devices, here might be something that fits you (and since I posted this in the 4500mAh thread) here it is again: Forumslader für Velogical: Forumslader

It pumps out 12V DC with a 3 phase bottle dynamo in combination with the forumlader electronics.
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