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gearing question

Old 04-25-16, 11:17 AM
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gearing question

let's say i want to get some lower gears.....16% grades maybe?
let's say i don't need higher gears......coasting is fine.

currently have 22-32-44 and 11-32 (and new 11-34) with 26" wheels.

i found a sugino 5-arm square taper 22-32-42.
also found some replacement rings: 20, 30, 39

the 22:34 would give me 16.8"
the 20:34 would give me 15.3" (and a 20:36........14.4"!!)

top end 39:11 would be 92.2" that'll do.

rear deore M531 should be fine with this. specs say max 34T
but the experts here say 36T is no problem.

what about the front deore M530? within the rated capacity of 22T,
and well under the max 48T cog. but supposed to have minimum 12T
jump from middle to outer rings.

how about that 9T jump? will it not shift? will it shift un-crispy?
would it make a difference if using friction shifter on the front?
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Old 04-25-16, 11:47 AM
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my triples have 16t jumps , 24, 40 (50)* .. 26,42(52) and I have a 22-36 (48)*jump .. I keep using friction shifters

as I have for 30 years , the Big Upshift at The crest of the hill , as I start down the other side ..so not much pull at all on the chain

& until I got new Campag "race" Triples ... the Middle and outer have been pretty standard Plain , tall tooth,

And *steel .. long wearing ..


Mostly as My ultimate low gear I use my 2 Feet ..

this Town is built over a steep hill, yesterday I visited a friend's house on top,

Though .. Nice view !...

re named my Bike after Sisyphus, mostly because Greek Mythology did not give that Rock a Name ..

Ride back down was fast ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-25-16 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 04-25-16, 12:02 PM
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not much use for the big rings....52/50/48.....hardly use
the 44 at all. want to go as small as possible outer ring.

so the big question is smaller jumps between rings.

ooh....ALIVIO CSHG400-9 9速飞轮 12-36

12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36
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Old 04-25-16, 12:04 PM
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The problem may be more the size of the rear plate on the FD derailleur cage. The width of the rear cage plate causes it to hit/rub on the middle chainring when you have the chain on the largest chainring.

I ran into the same issue on another derailleur. The spec said the tooth difference had to be a minimum of 12 teeth. I tried setting it up with only a 10 tooth difference, and it was not satisfactory.

Are you sure the crank set and replacement rings for the 5-arm, Sugino are indeed 5-bolt? I have never been able to find anything smaller than 24 tooth chainrings for 5-arm Sugino cranks. You might have access to some parts that we can't get here. I have set up several bikes with an 11/32/44 Sugino 4 bolt crankset, DX500, which is no longer in production. I'm not sure I could find anything smaller than a 22-tooth chainring for those either.

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Old 04-25-16, 12:05 PM
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It was my Bike Friday . by using a smaller drive wheel the gearing could be lower ..

put a FD on and a 38 53 with the 16t cog on the R'off, would be OK. PL has a chain Tensioner

as It is I understand why the British 'ave named the non Motor bike the Push Bike.


My Derailleur bikes all still use Freewheels and 13 or 14 t high gear cogs
so thats why the 48 & 50 t outers ..


I did build up a Goofy Low with a Mountain Tamer Quad 16.26.36.46.. 13~ 28 cassette

any loss in uphill momentum and the gear is so low your bike stops
before you can get the other foot on the Pedal.

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-25-16 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 04-25-16, 12:30 PM
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seller "thinks" it'll fit. but then he wants to sell.
i'll have to confirm all the numbers.

if not, amazon has this here 64bcd ring in 20T. would fit on my
current crank, but not much luck finding anything like a 39 or 40
as outer ring.

Amazon.com : 20T Chainring 64 BCD : Bike Chainrings And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors
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Old 04-25-16, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
...any loss in uphill momentum and the gear is so low your bike stops
before you can get the other foot on the Pedal.

It certainly is possible to gear a bike too low. Just because it works out mathematically on paper, doesn't mean it's practical in application. I know this because I've done it to myself. I had to maintain a ridiculous cadence just to keep the bike upright.


-Kedosto
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Old 04-25-16, 04:08 PM
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I can understand wanting to go the 20 from 22 route, but I question if its worth going 30 from 32 and 39 from 42. I ride a 42/32/22 and honestly I dont see it worth the time and money to change the two larger rings, the diff is very little and the 32 mid ring is still very much useable in most average riding on flat speed, lets say roughly 15-25kph.

In fact, I would say that gong to 30 will bring your mid ring regular cadence/speed range down just a little too much, it would for me anyway. I too have thought of the 20t option for really really steep sections loaded, and I'm sure any fd could handle the 2t drop while at the same time not getting into the other issues of the other rings changing sizes/tooth differences.

why not just get a 20t and go from there? Just throwing out my immediate reaction, your thoughts?
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Old 04-25-16, 07:01 PM
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my thinking is, if i'm gonna pay for 27 gears, then dammit i want 27
usable gears. fine, we can throw out the 2 extreme gears on either
end, and now i'm down to 25.

the 44 i have now is pretty much dead to me. even a 42 wouldn't be
much better. seems like i'm riding a 2x9.

agree a 30 would be too low.....unless there were some gears on the 39
or 40 big ring, then would spend more time there.

might as well ditch the big ring and mount some tire-flies.....
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Old 04-25-16, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by saddlesores
my thinking is, if i'm gonna pay for 27 gears, then dammit i want 27
usable gears. fine, we can throw out the 2 extreme gears on either
end, and now i'm down to 25.

the 44 i have now is pretty much dead to me. even a 42 wouldn't be
much better. seems like i'm riding a 2x9.

agree a 30 would be too low.....unless there were some gears on the 39
or 40 big ring, then would spend more time there.

might as well ditch the big ring and mount some tire-flies.....
I hear you, here is the gearing chart of my old 8 speed mtn bike, with the 42/32/22 and 26x1.5 , and yes, you end up with duplicate numbers. I dont have the chart right now, but with a 44/32/22 you get inbetween stuff, which could sort of be useful, BUT I'll be honest here, unless I have a downhill, or a tailwind, its rare for me to get into the 42 ring, especially when with lots of weight on the bike.
That said, take a look and do a gearing chart with the 44/32/22 and you'll see that there is an advantage of getting some between gears for going faster than at least 25kph (which again, to be honest, unless there is a slight downhill or tailwind, I'm rarely going along faster than 25 or so. I use this bike now with a 8 speed 12-25 and unloaded or lightly loaded, on my commute, I regularly am in the 32-12...hence my concern that a 30t would be too small, but perhaps your bike is a 700, so the gearing will go up a bit.

if you change out to a 20 granny, even with a 32 midring, the 12t jump isnt a big deal at all. I've considered setting up a new touring bike with a 44/32/20, to get lower gearing and/or to perhaps run a tighter cassette whilst still getting a reasonable low--again, as your whole topic here brings up, it really does depend on the terrain. When you start hitting stuff above 15% it starts to be a real bear, even with a moderate load, so lower is always going to be appreciated.
I too can live with about a 95g.i. top gear, a bit more would be nice but given the choice, its an easy decision to go with the preference to the lower stuff.
Also, the top speeds I have set bicycling have always been way past any reasonable gearing, so its really a moot point, and it gets completely into the area of evaluating the conditions if it is safe to let a bike get a real head of steam.
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Old 04-26-16, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by djb
I hear you, here is the gearing chart of my old 8 speed mtn bike, with the 42/32/22 and 26x1.5 ...

hmmm....think the simplest, bestest solution for now is
to switch the big ring to a 42, and get the 12:36 cassette.
i know all the piece-parts will play well together, and will
be able to find replacements in the future.

similar to your gear chart, but the cassette leaves off the
11T, and adds 32T and 34T cogs.

low gear will be 15.7", top gear will be 90.1"
(currently low=17.9, high =103.0)

yeah, i know....20:36......14.3"!!!!
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Old 04-26-16, 10:22 AM
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I swapped my Shimano FC-T551, 26/36/48t, for Shimano Deore XT M782, 22/30/40t. Before, I only used the 48t for steep downhills and the 26t was to high GI for loads going up the sand dunes (paved over!) around here without cranking hard. Now hills are much easier and, probably just as important, I can use the 40t on the flats with a little tailwind or with a slight decline. Yeah, so I'm never going to travel above 30 mph, anyway!
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Old 04-26-16, 10:39 AM
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i found a sugino 5-arm square taper 22-32-42.
also found some replacement rings: 20, 30, 39
By 'found' this is spotted Online? not on hand right Now ?

IMHO Id Just fit the 20, not that its that much less than 22 riding versus % on paper ..

Leave the other 2 as Is.. save your Yuan.. for food & beer..
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Old 04-26-16, 11:29 AM
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saddlesores, First item is whether the FD will clear the shallow step between the middle and outer chain rings. You'll have to try and you may want to use an older design FD from a road group. My back-up touring bike / beater is using a Shimano RX100 triple FD and it clears an 8T difference, to my surprise.

Secondly I'd swap to the chain rings you want to use, FD permissive. I dropped 8-10 GI from the top of my distance roadie and really haven't missed it.

Brad
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Old 04-29-16, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
By 'found' this is spotted Online? not on hand right Now ?
IMHO Id Just fit the 20, not that its that much less than 22 ..
yes, spotted online.
it's a sugino impel with 175mm arms. comes with 22-32-42 for $22

i've already got a new 11-34 cassette ready to install.
that would give me a top of 98, and low gear of 16.7

seller finally got back to me, confirmed it's a 5-arm 58/94.
is 8-speed vintage type, but should work with 9spd.

same as this one, 'cept new and 22T:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SUGI...QAAOSwDNdVumLi

different seller has 58 bcd raceface 20T for $8.
that would drop the low to 15.1


i gots another frame needing a reg'lar mtb crank anyways.......

Last edited by saddlesores; 04-29-16 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 04-29-16, 05:20 AM
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saddlesores, I have an Impel on my beater and it's chain rings are riveted. The rivet looks like a hex head screw from the drive side, but isn't.

Brad
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Old 04-29-16, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
...Impel..chain rings are riveted.
is that old-fangled five arms, or the newer 4-arm version?
i see on fleebay you can buy the 5-arm cranks with spider,
"impel" 5-hole rings, and sets of 5 inner chainring bolts.

mr. google shows me photos of the 4-arm cranks with rivety
heads, and 5-arm with genuine chainring bolts.

sugino musta went downhill after the sugina-AT era.

mouse over ebay photos to enlarge:
4-arm
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sugino-Impel...-/231880052247
5-arm
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SUGI...QAAOSwDNdVumLi


if'n i go this route, should probably stock up on some
20T and 32T 58bcd rings....
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Old 04-29-16, 09:13 AM
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saddlesores, I have seen photos of complete five arm Impels, but I couldn't be really positive that the bolts were real or fake, as on my beater's four arm Impel.

I guess Sugino didn't know how well regarded their AT was in the touring crowd.

Brad
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