Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Katy trail cassette

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Katy trail cassette

Old 07-08-16, 01:08 PM
  #1  
Squeezebox
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,077
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Katy trail cassette

I'm thinking of a cassette specific for when i ride the Katy Trail, which I expect will be frequent, And other rail trails at times.
As many of you probably know my Trek 920 has 42-28 chainrings, and an 11-36 cassette. I bought a 12-28 cassette for day rides and the other times I don't that high or low. I'm thinking of taking the next step for a cassette specific for the Katy Trail. No hills, therefore less need for super low gears. Soft surface and no downhills therefore no need for real high gears. In the back of my brain is a memory of someone saying use a Jr. racing cassette for a lower high end. So I went looking for a cassette with a higher low and a lower high. I found a 15-25. (10 speed)
So with 2.0 tires
15-25
28/25 is a 32" gear, 70 RPM 6.5 mph
42/15 is a 80" gear, 90 rpm 21.5 mph

12-28
28/28 is a 28.5" gear, 70 rpm 6 mph
42/12 is a 100" gear, 90 rpm 27 mph

11-36
28/36 is a 22" gear, 70 rpm 4.6 mph
42/11 is a 109" gear, 90 rpm 30 mph

35 mm tires change things a bit, I cranked those #s forgot to print.
I went back to look at 42/13 which is 92" 25 mph. and 42/14 is 85.5" 23 mph. at 90 rpm.
For the Katy Trail I think the 15/25 would be a good choice. Have you ever gone over 22 mph on the Katy? With no hills , why would I want less than a 32" gear, and need less than 6 mph? I can plod through the soggy spots.
The bicycle is under 30 lbs, Gear and panniers 20-25 lb. It might be good.
I wish they made a 14-36 cassette for touring. I'm old enough I don't need to fast anymore. And maybe I just can't go fast anymore.

Last edited by Squeezebox; 07-08-16 at 01:29 PM.
Squeezebox is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 02:52 PM
  #2  
BigAura
 
BigAura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chapin, SC
Posts: 3,423

Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Since you're in my age group I'd recommend:



But you're still using a Walkman???



Boombox not recommend since I remember you saying "let the lightness be with you"





So when you heading out on the trail?

Last edited by BigAura; 07-08-16 at 03:21 PM.
BigAura is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 02:54 PM
  #3  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 12,780

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5588 Post(s)
Liked 2,781 Times in 1,616 Posts
Google says 2000' of climb over the 240mi of trail. So yeah thats pretty flat.

Get a 3rd cassette if you think it will help. Or dont, since thats overkill. Either way, go ride it.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 03:31 PM
  #4  
BigAura
 
BigAura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chapin, SC
Posts: 3,423

Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Ooops I think I misunderstood? For what I think you're asking I'll have to quote some sage advise:

Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Use what you have and think about it when you get back.
BigAura is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 05:01 PM
  #5  
JerrySTL
Senior Member
 
JerrySTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 1,467

Bikes: Giant Defy Advanced, Breezer Doppler Team, Schwinn Twinn Tandem, Windsor Tourist, 1954 JC Higgens

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
The Katy Trail is very flat from Machens to Boonville. However if you get off the trail to visit Hermann, Columbia, Jefferson City, and a few other places, you'll run into hills pretty quickly.

From Boonville to Clinton it is hilly. As it's a rails-to-trails, the grade is usually under 3%, but there are a few places where it hits 5%.

Personally I'd stick with the 12-28.
JerrySTL is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 05:07 PM
  #6  
Squeezebox
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,077
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
In my early days I rode highway 94 from Jefferson City to Weldon Springs and back several times. Also from Columbia to Booneville more than a few times.
parts of it even more. For that I can't believe 2000 ft. but for Katy? No way!!

Jerry!
My experience is from Booneville to Weldon Springs. Jerry thanks a lot for your advice west of Booneville.

But since I'm a local the 15-25 might still not be stupid for the east of Booneville part. The cassette is only $50.

Last edited by Squeezebox; 07-08-16 at 09:39 PM.
Squeezebox is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 06:03 PM
  #7  
rm -rf
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,258
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked 100 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
I'm thinking of a cassette specific for when i ride the Katy Trail, which I expect will be frequent, And other rail trails at times.
As many of you probably know my Trek 920 has 42-28 chainrings, and an 11-36 cassette. I bought a 12-28 cassette for day rides and the other times I don't that high or low. I'm thinking of taking the next step for a cassette specific for the Katy Trail. No hills, therefore less need for super low gears. Soft surface and no downhills therefore no need for real high gears. In the back of my brain is a memory of someone saying use a Jr. racing cassette for a lower high end. So I went looking for a cassette with a higher low and a lower high. I found a 15-25. (10 speed)
So with 2.0 tires
15-25
28/25 is a 32" gear, 70 RPM 6.5 mph
42/15 is a 80" gear, 90 rpm 21.5 mph

12-28
28/28 is a 28.5" gear, 70 rpm 6 mph
42/12 is a 100" gear, 90 rpm 27 mph

11-36
28/36 is a 22" gear, 70 rpm 4.6 mph
42/11 is a 109" gear, 90 rpm 30 mph

35 mm tires change things a bit, I cranked those #s forgot to print.
I went back to look at 42/13 which is 92" 25 mph. and 42/14 is 85.5" 23 mph. at 90 rpm.
For the Katy Trail I think the 15/25 would be a good choice. Have you ever gone over 22 mph on the Katy? With no hills , why would I want less than a 32" gear, and need less than 6 mph? I can plod through the soggy spots.
The bicycle is under 30 lbs, Gear and panniers 20-25 lb. It might be good.
I wish they made a 14-36 cassette for touring. I'm old enough I don't need to fast anymore. And maybe I just can't go fast anymore.
That's interesting. I'd never heard of a 15-25 10-speed cassette. It's probably for Junior racing, where their highest gear is limited by the rules, and is designed to work with larger chainrings. It's basically a "straight block" but with slower gears.

It doesn't seem to be a good fit for your 28 / 42 chainrings. I like close shifts to get to my preferred cadence, but these are extremely close together. You'd be shifting 2 or 3 cogs at a time.

See the chart attached, with the 28 chainring in red, and the 42 chainring in blue. I added a 34 chainring in black, just to see how it might substitute for the 28 on flat roads, but it won't work well here.

Here's the Mike Sherman gear calculator link for your setup. It tells you that you can bookmark / favorite those settings to save the setup. The charts update on the fly as you change cogs or cadences.

~~~~~~~~~

Your current 11-36 and 28 / 42 setup isn't optimal, but it would be able to climb some very steep hills.
Here's the calculator link.
See the 2nd chart below.

An 11-32 (which is 11-12-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32) doesn't help either.

~~~~~~~~~~

I kind of like a 12-27 and 28 / 40, see the calculator link here.
(I couldn't find a 12-28 in 10-speed, but did see a 12-27 or 11-28.)
No really low gears, but a good range on the 28 chainring from 6 mph up to 15 mph. The 40 chainring covers 12 to 20 mph, with close shifts in the 15 to 20 mph range. And you can put your 11-36 back on for steeper rides.

~~~


Attachments: 15-25 with either 28, 34 or 42 chainrings. and 11-36 with 28 and 42 chainrings.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
15-25 and 28-42.jpg (97.2 KB, 118 views)
File Type: jpg
11-36 and 28-42.JPG (82.5 KB, 118 views)

Last edited by rm -rf; 07-08-16 at 06:14 PM.
rm -rf is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 07:54 PM
  #8  
Doug64
Senior Member
 
Doug64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,104
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1016 Post(s)
Liked 418 Times in 245 Posts
I suspect that you will also need a shorter chain with the 25 tooth cassette than the one you are using with the 36 tooth cassette.
Doug64 is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 09:48 PM
  #9  
Squeezebox
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,077
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
I suspect that you will also need a shorter chain with the 25 tooth cassette than the one you are using with the 36 tooth cassette.
your opinion of 25 vs 28 on the back? I did shorten from 36 to 28.

I will take a better look at specifics of the gear chart, and lay that out.
Still no reason to hate from some of the above.

Last edited by Squeezebox; 07-08-16 at 10:06 PM.
Squeezebox is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 10:26 PM
  #10  
Doug64
Senior Member
 
Doug64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,104
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1016 Post(s)
Liked 418 Times in 245 Posts
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
your opinion of 25 vs 28 on the back? I did shorten from 36 to 28.

I will take a better look at specifics of the gear chart, and lay that out.
Still no reason to hate from some of the above.
I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence. All I did was give you my thought about chain length.
Doug64 is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 10:44 PM
  #11  
alan s 
Senior Member
 
alan s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,947
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1482 Post(s)
Liked 176 Times in 117 Posts
Your current gears are fine. Take Shia's advice.

alan s is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 04:31 AM
  #12  
Squeezebox
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,077
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence. All I did was give you my thought about chain length.
Sorry! the comment was pointed at big aura not at you.

Still at $50 it will be an interesting experiment. Changing cassettes doesn't take long after the first few times.
Squeezebox is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 06:05 AM
  #13  
BigAura
 
BigAura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chapin, SC
Posts: 3,423

Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Sorry! the comment was pointed at big aura not at you.

Still at $50 it will be an interesting experiment. Changing cassettes doesn't take long after the first few times.
The Scientific Method
  • Ask a Question.
  • Do Background Research.
  • Construct a Hypothesis.
  • Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment.
  • Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion.
  • Communicate Your Results.

You seem very adept at the first three steps. You need to complete the fourth step (which I've yet to see). The experiment is touring. Touring is what we are talking about right?
BigAura is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 06:27 AM
  #14  
BigAura
 
BigAura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chapin, SC
Posts: 3,423

Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Still no reason to hate from some of the above.
It's not hate at all. It is:

cyn·i·cism

noun
1. an inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest.

synonyms: skepticism, disbelief
BigAura is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 06:54 AM
  #15  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 30,269
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13304 Post(s)
Liked 5,942 Times in 3,048 Posts
Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
Boombox not recommend since I remember you saying "let the lightness be with you"





So when you heading out on the trail?
Is that Grandmaster Flash?
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 07:54 AM
  #16  
BigAura
 
BigAura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chapin, SC
Posts: 3,423

Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Is that Grandmaster Flash?
yep
BigAura is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 08:34 AM
  #17  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,318 Times in 828 Posts
Katy, as a rail conversion, the grades are bound to be slight.

I understand its chipped limestone, not paved..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 09:41 AM
  #18  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 30,269
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13304 Post(s)
Liked 5,942 Times in 3,048 Posts
Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
yep
Using my masterful powers of deduction, I would have to say that the woman pictured with him is none other than Tina Weymouth. Correct?
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 09:53 AM
  #19  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 30,269
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13304 Post(s)
Liked 5,942 Times in 3,048 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Katy, as a rail conversion, the grades are bound to be slight.
Not always. From the official site of the Mickelson Trail:

"A majority of the trail does not exceed a 4% grade, but parts of the trail are considered strenuous. Dumont is the highest point and the 19 mile stretch from Deadwood to Dumont is the longest incline."

There are some very noticeable stretches of up hill, and I didn't even ride the Deadwood to Dumont section. Got on at Engelwood, the trailhead south of Dumont, and immediately started climbing for about 4.3 miles (at mile 30 of the profile):

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/8789073

That stretch averages about 2.75%. Throw in the soft trail surface and a headwind and it was not a simple thing.

With that said, I think the premise of this thread is inane, but it's his alleged money.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 10:23 AM
  #20  
BigAura
 
BigAura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chapin, SC
Posts: 3,423

Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Using my masterful powers of deduction, I would have to say that the woman pictured with him is none other than Tina Weymouth. Correct?
Your are correct -> the image is titled: Tina Weymouth & Grandmaster Flash, 1981

Cool picture but I'm glad that we now have ear-buds/headphones and we can carry a personal music library that weighs almost nothing.

Last edited by BigAura; 07-09-16 at 10:28 AM.
BigAura is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 10:25 AM
  #21  
shipwreck
Senior Member
 
shipwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,475
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Not always. From the official site of the Mickelson Trail:

"A majority of the trail does not exceed a 4% grade, but parts of the trail are considered strenuous. Dumont is the highest point and the 19 mile stretch from Deadwood to Dumont is the longest incline."

There are some very noticeable stretches of up hill, and I didn't even ride the Deadwood to Dumont section. Got on at Engelwood, the trailhead south of Dumont, and immediately started climbing for about 4.3 miles (at mile 30 of the profile):

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/8789073

That stretch averages about 2.75%. Throw in the soft trail surface and a headwind and it was not a simple thing.

With that said, I think the premise of this thread is inane, but it's his alleged money.

here is a link to the Katys elevation chart. Katy Trail Elevations

It is indeed really flat, with the only real hill being from Booneville to Pilot Grove. There is one more right before Rocheport that I have seen people flagging on while riding east to west.

I am confused. Did the OP do a ride or not? He alludes to experience from Weldon Spring to Booneville. If so, he has ridden it and should know what the hell gearing he wants and just do it. I hit 25+ mph on the katy often. its also nice to ride up the hills in Augusta, and up the little spur trail to Klondike state park.

Since every time I have ridden the trail it has been part of a longer trip with plenty of hills I use regular wide range gearing. If I ever ride it with friends, doing the trail only, I plan on riding a SA Three Speed hub bike.
shipwreck is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 12:02 PM
  #22  
MixedRider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Ride the trail with how the bike is. Tell everyone how it went. Post pictures and review your ride. What went well? What went bad? What would you do next time?

Fussing over a couple gear inches when you don't even really know what you want yet seems silly. If you use the max gear ratio and get 30mph+ let us know...
MixedRider is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 12:15 PM
  #23  
Squeezebox
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,077
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
here is a link to the Katys elevation chart. Katy Trail Elevations

It is indeed really flat, with the only real hill being from Booneville to Pilot Grove. There is one more right before Rocheport that I have seen people flagging on while riding east to west.

I am confused. Did the OP do a ride or not? He alludes to experience from Weldon Spring to Booneville. If so, he has ridden it and should know what the hell gearing he wants and just do it. I hit 25+ mph on the katy often. its also nice to ride up the hills in Augusta, and up the little spur trail to Klondike state park.

Since every time I have ridden the trail it has been part of a longer trip with plenty of hills I use regular wide range gearing. If I ever ride it with friends, doing the trail only, I plan on riding a SA Three Speed hub bike.
I rode the paved road next to the Katy frequently before the Katy existed. There are some very steep climbs on that road between Jeff City and St. Charles. I've been on the Katy Trail a few times. It's not road bike friendly. Now I'm older and slower and ready for the Katy Trail. And I have the right bicycle, just thinking about tweeking the gearing.
Squeezebox is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 01:28 PM
  #24  
robow
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,559
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 90 Posts
I agree with jerrystl, go with the 12-28 cassette. If you do decide you want to get off the trail,you'll appreciate the lower gears. Btw, don't listen to shipwrek, he's an animal, no mere mortal can peddle those classic vintage bikes at 25 plus mph on crushed limestone
robow is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 02:01 PM
  #25  
shipwreck
Senior Member
 
shipwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,475
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by robow View Post
I agree with jerrystl, go with the 12-28 cassette. If you do decide you want to get off the trail,you'll appreciate the lower gears. Btw, don't listen to shipwrek, he's an animal, no mere mortal can peddle those classic vintage bikes at 25 plus mph on crushed limestone
You can if your on a road bike! Last time I did it was on 28mm tires. I did sink down once or twice, but the trail was fairly dry. I have a bad habit of not wanting to stop at a convenient campground in the afternoon, so then have to hammer it into dusk to get to the next town. Just put on some techno rave music and give it all Ive got. Helps me sleep at night
shipwreck is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.