I agree. Durability of 100% Merino baselayers is low.

I am good friends with the 6th generation of the Pendleton wool family. Mac Bishop, great guy. Mac runs a startup out of Boston- for the last two years, he's produced wool under the Wool & Prince moniker.

I was a tester for Mac's early prototypes. My hard use and feedback (along with hundreds of others) pushed Mac to go for an 80% wool / 20% nylon blend in his T-shirts. That's proving to be much more durable - it was my only T-shirt on a 30-day tour, and a 12-day backpacking trip, and 2 months of everyday wear this summer. Still looks new! Blends are the sweet spot.

There are other weaves of wool products from companies like Ibex that are significantly more durable. Lifetime, indestructible durable. But, they come at the cost of weight and space.

P.S. If anyone is looking for wool at a really great cost, search Amazon or eBay for "Ragg Wool." Ragg wool is a little itchy, but unbeatable for the cost and durability. And, it's 100% wool, so it's warm and stink-proof and weather resistant.

I have ragg wool socks and mittens that come with me on almost every trip, and I got a ragg wool sweater for $12 that works awesome in the winter!

Thrift/charity/2nd hand shops in my area are overflowing with light wool vests and sweaters. And in merino/lamb/cashmere blends. Even if it's a bit moth eaten, I can get a season or two out of one of these for less than $5. And when it falls apart I go get another. I have 6 or 8 on hand now, but I do like a synthetic T-shirt underneath because it prevents the moist-clammy-cold like no other fabric I've found. Sierra Trading Post has an in house brand called Wickers of basic synthetic t-shirts that are very reasonable, less than $10 US, and very durable so far after 6 months frequent use. $60 for a dang undershirt! Thats beer $!

Based on forum tips, I picked up a couple of thrift store merino wool sweaters. Now if I wear a synthetic bike shirt as the base layer along with the sweater...would I still get the odor issues? I'm assuming yes...

Synthetic base layers don't necessarily smell, I never had a significant problem with that though I almost always used machine wash. Maybe different weaves or body chemistries or hand-washing while on tour can contribute to odor, I dunno. For washcloths & towels there's the trick of microwaving while damp from wash to kill the mildew spores & bacteria, perhaps that works for synthetic base layers too? Another idea (I haven't tried it) for washing on tour is to use some powdered oxygen detergent. I bought some Nikwax BaseWash which is supposed to fight odor & improve wicking of base layers. It gets pretty good reviews though since I didn't have a significant odor/wicking problem so I don't know for sure how well it works. A little pricey but for longer tours with hand-washing it might help.

My concern is really about odor whilst wearing the shirt. I can launder the odor out just fine. It's smelling bad while still wearing the shirt that's the problem.

Synthetics allow bacteria to grow faster vs cotton and wool.
If you get the stank from synthetics, itll happen even if you have a wool shirt over the synthtic. I would guess itd happen faster actually, since the synthtic is under another layer and staying more damp as a result. Thats a guess though.

:thumb:

Yep ... and if there is a bit of an odour, there's always Borax.

Just me, but...

I have not found wool, merino or otherwise, to live up to the stink proof claims. Maybe my body chemistry is weird or something, but I definitely have had some stinking wool socks and have never had that problem with synthetic socks. I have found wool to soak up a lot of water and to dry slowly. I have also found it to wear more quickly and to usually cost more.

I prefer synthetics. In my experience they last MUCH longer, are easier to care for, don't soak up and hold as much moisture and dry quickly. On the stink, I have found that some of my synthetic garments do tend to get that synthetic funk and others don't. The ones that do don't get taken on tour. If one starts to develop that problem it helps to do one hot machine wash and then it is usually back to being OK for hand washing and rinsing for a fairly extended period.

I was a white water boater (so soaking wet all day and in cold conditions) back in the days when wool was the only reasonable choice and was so happy when synthetics came on the scene and happier yet when they became more stink resistant.

Well, I wear a lot of merino wool and have pretty much given up on the synthetic stuff. I ride outside daily year round in northern Utah so my wool gets a lot of use. I consider my mid layers to be a few various merino wool jerseys worn over a merino wool base layer once it gets cold. Really cold weather calls for a windblocking but breathing type jacket of some sort. I've got two main ones.

I find the wool better in terms of no odor over repeated days, certainly holds warmth while wet, lasts a long time and seems to have a wide temperature range for wear. By that I mean the same merino wool jersey can be warm for a ride starting in the 40s and cool enough once it reaches the 70s, like the days that are now starting here.

For really cold riding I find that the synthetic stuff is dangerous once it get's wet. If you don't stop it can be ok. But a 5 minute or more break and you get really cold in it and the cold may or may not go away once you get going again. That is where I find the wool so superior.

Now for some people's "cold days" in the 40 or 50s I think anything will work but in true cold well under freezing wool is the best IMHO.

A base layer of wool, with a mid layer of wool, and then the Fox Wear jacket is all I've got on for this ride. As you can see it was quite cold but the wool kept me warm and comfy.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/162200883.jpg

Now I have used a lot of synthetics in the past. Proper washing without fabric softeners and such is normally the key to keeping it odor free. Maybe even a wash with some vinegar or lysol or something like that to kill the bacteria that's causing the odor.

How about wool on really hot days--like 90F and 80% humidity (and more)?

No. You'd be hot.

I use super-wicking tech-material for that situation.

I am sorry, but you really do have to specify what "synthetic stuff" actually means. You see, I am a point where simply, polypropylene doesn't get wet, and remains mostly dry against my skin even in temps that are at or below freezing through wind chill. However, in my experience, wool garments of the type we are talking about does get wet, keeps the moisture and represents a danger in cold conditions.

No worries, I too can ride easy in the cold and monitor my sweat to keep the synthetic wicking stuff mainly dry. And I am by no means going to say that wool does not get wet. The difference is that wet wool retains heat and all the synthetic stuff I've tried does not, that equates to various coolmax items, under armour etc... The Fox Wear jacket in the pic while being a "breathable" material actually will ice over on the insides sometimes on cold weather. I actually prefer to wear an outer layer of my heavy polypropylene fleece pullover when it's not windy because it breathes fairly well.

To me the difference isn't what gets wet with sweat or not, it's which material can retain heat when wet. In my experience this is without a doubt wool, not synthetics...

My go to mid layer my first winter was a heavy under armour shirt that is 95% polyester and 5% Elastine - marketed as having "superior wicking properties". It was terrible if I stopped for any reason once it was damp. I'd loose all body heat and it would take about 20 minutes of riding before I'd get warm again. I stop in wet wool and stay warm. It's quite simple for me.

I used to ride easier in the winter trying to manage my sweat. Once I discovered how well wool worked for me I stopped worrying about it and got my usual hard workouts in when I wanted.

But all that really matters is what works for you, right? ;)

Borax was used for baby nappies, no? US gas stations used to have pink Boraxo hand cleaner in the bathrooms, scrubbed all the dirt off pronto & didn't leave residue like modern commercial liquid soaps.

In the 70's bike boom many US writers advised tourists to use Euro wool racing jerseys with the idea that they wicked/insulated even when very hot. IIRC even some pricier wool jerseys then were not even Merino & in hot humid conditions they were heavy & scratchy. Now cotton is supposed to be terrible but when it gets sweat-soaked & sticks to skin I figure it's it's actually working efficiently as a heat-sink.

The only wool I wear on tour are socks. On cold days my base layer is a dark silk turtleneck (pure luxury:love:). As a bonus if I’m stepping out in the evening I wear it over my bright colored jersey to tone things down.

For midlayer it would always be a long sleeve jersey. I only wear LS jerseys and they are all synthetic. Wool has some basic limitations in my experience. It is slow to dry. Put it in a commercial dryer and it will come out three sizes smaller.

The thing with wool is that like with any material, you need to know how to use it and what its properties are to effectively get the best use out of said material.

Wool is a natural fiber and like many natural fibers, it sucks up water. However it holds water in a way that it stays warmer than many other materials even when wet. But it still does absorb quite impressive amounts of water and as a natural fiber it dries really slowly when comparing to synthetic materials like coolmax or lycra for example.

Now while sport synthetics do get wet, they don't absorb the water into the fibers themselves like natural fibers do. This effectively means that synthetics dry and wick moisture quickly. The problem comes when there's no place for said water to go, ie. it can't evaporate or transfer to other layers and hence the water stays on the fabric making the person wearing them uncomfortable in the process.

This is why layering is important. You use a wicking layer (synthetic) as base and the absorbant natural fiber (wool or sometimes cotton) as mid or top layer so the moisture is removed from the skin surface and it still has a place to go. An old hiking tip from our challenging conditions is to use something extremely absorbant as top layer, such as cotton, and remove that immediately after stopping. That way you'll remove a lot of the moisture you've created by just removing a garment and don't have to dry up nearly as long.

Years of outdoors experience have convinced me that wool really isn't a good base layer next to skin. It's much better to use a synthetic to wick the moisture onto the wool or other natural fiber than to use the natural fiber as skin layer and have that moisture against the skin constantly as the garment slowly dries. Because wool really dries slow and even though it warms you even when wet, it's not nearly as good at it while it's dry, or when comparing to a dry synthetic.

Wool gets my vote

And there you have it, folks. Issue settled once and for all!

See, and this is the exact mindset I had when I started my winter biking "adventures". I just found that, unlike you, it doesn't work for me. While wearing a coolmax type baselayer it would still get wet and then if I stopped to change a flat, deice the cassette, etc. I would get cold real quick and it would take forever like 15 or 20 minutes of riding to warm up again. Yet now in the same scenerio with even a wool baselayer I will stay warm while stopped even if the wool is wet. To me that's the advantage and what matters to me. Of course I don't have to worry about my garments drying because I finish in a warm house. I guess if at the end of the ride I still am camping outside in the cold I would have to rethink my methods...

Actually, just a shade of meaning here. Wool doesn't warm you, either wet or dry. Your body does the warming. Wool acts as an insulator, but feels warm because it slows the movement of heat away from your body.

The issue for me all along is that the body needs to continue to warm the water (sweat) that remains in the fabric, whether wool or a synthetic fabric. The thing in my book that sets polypropylene apart from wool and Coolmax is that it is hydrophobic as a normal property, and transports water to another outer fabric without retaining it itself. It also has less thermal conductivity than wool, so is supposed to provide better insulation properties.

Perhaps wicking fabrics can cause a chill by evaporating water too quickly in scenario you mention. Scots sheepherders used to sleep outside in the cold rain wearing wool. I'm amazed by my dog's water-proof coat BTW: snow/sleet/rain doesn't bother her a bit.

Per a tip read on BF, I picked up a couple of merino wool sweaters from the local thrift store. This past weekend it was in the upper 50's and low 60's during the day. My day out was to a e-bike exhibit using bike and train plus a stop at the mall. I wanted to be warm but not overheat while riding and also comfortable when not riding. Since I was going to be around people, I also didn't want to smell. I tried out a light-medium weight wool sweater rather than going with a synthetic jersey plus jacket or civilian cotton shirt with jacket. And I made the right choice! Whether riding or not--outside or walking around in the mall, I was pretty comfortable. Sure, when the wind kicked up, I felt the breeze for a bit but then my body temperature would stabilize to a comfortable level again. The most impressive part was when I returned home, I did the sniff test and I barely noticed anything. There was a faint odor but it wasn't the sweaty jersey odor, but more like the very faint mixture of Dawn and wool (I wash delicates with original Dawn dish soap).

I'm definitely sold on wool for cool or cold weather cycling. For next summer, I'm going to experiment with very lightweight long sleeve cotton shirts/blouses. My arms are way over-tanned and I dislike the mix of sweat and enormous amount of sunblock. Hopefully a very lightweight shirt will mitigate the long sleeves in terms of heat. I'm going with cotton as it stinks a little less than synthetics. And there's no need to worry about getting cold from the moisture as the summers here are hot and humid all day and night. It's not like I'm riding in the CA desert where it's very hot during the day and the temperatures drop 20-30 degrees after sundown.