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bike stands bad news

Old 08-24-16, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
I did. On the kickstand

But seriously, city after city of congestion like that, we just got to the point where whererever we parked we just faced them in opposite directions side by side, with the kickstands in, and chained them to one another. Even if you could find a wall to lean them up against, you were always likely to find someone else leaned their bike on yours!
Also, I can imagine that if you are touring the country side you want to have a drink or something to eat in a sidewalk cafe. I guess you want to leave the luggage on the bike and keep an eye on it, so you've got to be able to park it anywhere in a neat and space efficient way.

Those double kick stands are fine, the problem appears to be in some bikes. A bike should have a solid plate to attach any kickstand to, and a heavy duty bike should have a double plate. If a frame can't hold the loaded bike's weight standing still, it's not good enough to ride.
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Old 08-24-16, 03:44 AM
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Since this is a re-hash I thought newbies might be interested in this link to Surly's blog piece on kickstands:

Kickstands On Long Haul Truckers

Last edited by BigAura; 08-24-16 at 04:02 AM.
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Old 08-24-16, 04:47 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Anytime now someone will come along and say they never found a kickstand that didn't let the bike fall over...


Because it's like Groundhogs day!
Well since you brought it up... I have a number of friends who will tell you their bikes never fall over when on their kick stand. The thing is, I have seen every one of them blown over, some multiple times.

Personally I don't want a stand on my bike and don't care for the clickstand.

As far as those pictures of the many bikes ganged up, it is never an issue where I tour.
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Old 08-24-16, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Aushiker


I have a Hebie Bipod 605 NL on my Surly Long Haul Trucker and given that the bike has done over 14,000 km now with the stand I am not too concerned. Each to their own of course but I don't plan to stop using it in the foreseeable future. Way to convenient for me.

exact same kickstand except no rubber where the it hits the frame. get rid of it you will kill your bike
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Old 08-24-16, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by antokelly
exact same kickstand except no rubber where the it hits the frame. get rid of it you will kill your bike
Oh well, then it will be an excuse for a new bike ...
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Old 08-24-16, 06:44 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Stadjer
Also, I can imagine that if you are touring the country side you want to have a drink or something to eat in a sidewalk cafe. I guess you want to leave the luggage on the bike and keep an eye on it, so you've got to be able to park it anywhere in a neat and space efficient way.
Yep, we generally had them in sight of wherever we were having a meal or drinks, the method really aided in that.

Originally Posted by staehpj1
Well since you brought it up... I have a number of friends who will tell you their bikes never fall over when on their kick stand. The thing is, I have seen every one of them blown over, some multiple times.
The thing is? I've come back to my bike having fallen or knocked over while leaning against stuff, despite people who love the method never admitting as much.

Bikes falling over are part of life, unless you exclusively lay it on the ground. I'd never own anything that it would bother me if I came out to see it toppled over.

I just don't understand the hatred towards them. They work for many people.
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Old 08-24-16, 07:09 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
I just don't understand the hatred towards them. They work for many people.
Hatred? Really? Does any one actually display hatred toward them?

I prefer not to use one on my touring bike, road bike, or mountain bike, but hate them? I do have one on my folding bike that sees very casual use in an around town setting. I wouldn't have put one on the folder if it had not come with one on it, but also have not bothered to take it off in all the years I have owned it.

In general I just find the disadvantages outweigh the advantages, for me. Others can choose feel free to choose either way with no hate from me.
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Old 08-24-16, 07:13 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
If I can't trust a kickstand, why would I trust something that works on the exact same principal, but which isn't conveniently attached to the frame where I can just kick it down and be done with it, rather forcing me to dig around in a bag to find it and set it up?

Trust me, when you are looking for bike parking in a place like this, lying your bike down is not an option and that clickstand is gonna get knocked over, it si great to have the kickstand option:
If you look closely at the picture, there's only one bike that is using a kickstand. The rest are leaning up in a rack or leaning against the rack.

As for laying the bike down, I rarely do that with my bike. The world just has a whole lot of vertical surfaces that the bike can lean against.

Originally Posted by staehpj1
Well since you brought it up... I have a number of friends who will tell you their bikes never fall over when on their kick stand. The thing is, I have seen every one of them blown over, some multiple times.

Personally I don't want a stand on my bike and don't care for the clickstand.

As far as those pictures of the many bikes ganged up, it is never an issue where I tour.
Yup. Seen it lots of times. Even had it happen to me before I decided that kickstands were mostly useless.

If I am riding with someone, I can even lean my bike against theirs by turning the bikes head-to-tail and leaning them against each other. Works very well and the bikes are completely stable.



Originally Posted by jefnvk
The thing is? I've come back to my bike having fallen or knocked over while leaning against stuff, despite people who love the method never admitting as much.

Bikes falling over are part of life, unless you exclusively lay it on the ground. I'd never own anything that it would bother me if I came out to see it toppled over.
I don't know what you are doing but I've never had a bike fall over when it was leaned up against something. I've leaned my bikes up against walls, posts, trees, fences, etc and never had one fall over







The only one that could have possibly fallen over was the last one and I would never walk away from my bike parked like that. I just needed the photo.

Originally Posted by jefnvk
I just don't understand the hatred towards them. They work for many people.
And they don't work for others. I, frankly, don't care if you use one or not. But all too often kickstand people start yelling "Blasphemy!" when those of us who do see the utility and/or point out the problems with them. I really have seen post that say everyone should have a kickstand. I've never seen a post that says no one should have kickstands.
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Old 08-24-16, 07:35 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
A friend of mine had one of those two legged types, the bolt corroded onto it and then it got a bit loose so he could not tighten it. He cut it off with a hacksaw. He saw the Greenfield type I have on my bike that attaches on the rear seatstay and chainstay and bought one like mine.

I do not trust those two legged ones for touring, they put one wheel up in the air and with panniers front and rear, the frame is not designed for that kind of stress on the frame. Surly will void a warranty if a kickstand is used.

You can't talk me out of a kickstand like mine, I am sold on it.
I had a similar situation where the head of the allen bolt became stripped. Using the hacksaw in the rear triangle was a chore. Currently using a rear-mounted kickstand, and I love it. Very stable and very useful. Sure, there's usually something around to lean your bike on, but with a kickstand, there's always something. The place I use it most is in my apartment. There's a limited amount of wall space, and it's going to be in the way if you lean it on the furniture.
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Old 08-24-16, 09:11 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
If you look closely at the picture, there's only one bike that is using a kickstand. The rest are leaning up in a rack or leaning against the rack.
The only example I could find in my pictures. Hard to shove a bike in those racks with bags on, but it is representative of what most of the town looked like. Sure, I'm sure if I looked long and hard enough, I could find SOMEWHERE to lean them, at the same time I liked leaving them within sight. Kickstands worked perfectly, even if I could have made something else worked, why would I?

As for laying the bike down, I rarely do that with my bike. The world just has a whole lot of vertical surfaces that the bike can lean against.

I don't know what you are doing but I've never had a bike fall over when it was leaned up against something. I've leaned my bikes up against walls, posts, trees, fences, etc and never had one fall over
Walls, bike racks, trees, posts, anything vertical. Most of the time it happens is when I have my road bike at the end of a ride leaning up against my car, as it doesn't have a kickstand.

In any case, your anecdotal evidence says you've seen bikes on kickstands fall over. Mine has said I've seen those leaning against things fall over. Whose anecdotal evidence wins?

There are a lot of times I find a wall or a rack more convenient. There are times I find a kickstand more convenient. It just seems to me, someone who has never had any more of an issue using one than standing things against other objects or lying them down, that their lack of utility is overstated. I like options.

But all too often kickstand people start yelling "Blasphemy!" when those of us who do see the utility and/or point out the problems with them. I really have seen post that say everyone should have a kickstand. I've never seen a post that says no one should have kickstands.
This thread started about the dangers of kickstands and how one shouldn't use them.

i took it off and binned it after i seen the damage it done to a lovely frame, so be warned folks there bad news buy a click stand if you really need your bike to stand up or find a solid object like a wall hedge tree anything bar one of those bloody things.
just saying.

Last edited by jefnvk; 08-24-16 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 08-24-16, 09:51 AM
  #36  
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I should say, if the kick stand becomes bloody one is probably deploying it wrong. It should not puncture the skin or Penatrate any orifice.
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Old 08-24-16, 10:01 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
I've never seen a post that says no one should have kickstands.
Here you go: No one should have kickstands. No one but me. Only I should be permitted to have kickstands!


I have single-leg center-mount ones on several bikes, a rear stay mount one on one bike and a double-leg one on a touring bike. Interestingly, I never planned to use the Twinn but neither of the other type worked adequately when using four panniers; the bike was subject to tipping. The Twinn works fine whether touring with the panniers or with a B.O.B. trailer.


I do not use a kickstand on a Giant carbon mountain bike and I did not use one on my old PX10 and will probably not use one on the Raleigh Pro that has yet to be built.
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Old 08-24-16, 10:09 AM
  #38  
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guys if u use the dreaded kickstand ,whip it off and check that everything is fine if not your looking at a new frame .
just saying.
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Old 08-24-16, 10:10 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Aushiker
Oh well, then it will be an excuse for a new bike ...
Andrew a new bike anytime is good
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Old 08-24-16, 10:44 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
The only example I could find in my pictures. Hard to shove a bike in those racks with bags on, but it is representative of what most of the town looked like. Sure, I'm sure if I looked long and hard enough, I could find SOMEWHERE to lean them, at the same time I liked leaving them within sight. Kickstands worked perfectly, even if I could have made something else worked, why would I?
I agree that it would be hard to shove a bike with bags on it into those racks. I wouldn't even try. But on the right hand side of your picture there is a silver wall that would be perfect for leaning a bike against which is where I would put my bike. I'm also fairly certain that every bike in that picture (even the ones leaning against the bridge) has a kickstand but none of them are being used...probably because the people riding them have lots of experience with the bikes toppling over and getting in everyone's way. I've been to The Netherlands and seldom saw anyone using a kickstand.


Originally Posted by jefnvk
Walls, bike racks, trees, posts, anything vertical. Most of the time it happens is when I have my road bike at the end of a ride leaning up against my car, as it doesn't have a kickstand.
I find it hard to believe that your bike leaning against your car fell over. Where can it fall to? Granted the bikes in my pictures that are leaning up against a tree or a post might fall over but only if I haven't stabilized the bike properly. When I used a kickstand even with the bike stabilized properly, it was prone to blowing over or to the kickstand sinking into soft ground. After watching my bike fall over a few times and having observed lots of kickstand equipped bikes topple over at bicycle events, putting it on the ground in the first place just seemed like the logical thing to do.

Originally Posted by jefnvk
In any case, your anecdotal evidence says you've seen bikes on kickstands fall over. Mine has said I've seen those leaning against things fall over. Whose anecdotal evidence wins?
You are going to have to work a whole lot harder to convince me (and others) that bicycles leaning against something fall over at the same rate as bicycles held up by kickstands. I haven't seen a whole lot of bikes leaning against walls or tables or benches, etc. just spontaneously leap away from the wall and topple over. I have seen a whole lot of bikes that seemed stable on their kickstands topple over from the slightest breeze.


Originally Posted by jefnvk
This thread started about the dangers of kickstands and how one shouldn't use them.
A bike falling over, whether from falling off the kickstand or spontaneously leaping away from a wall, won't suffer much damage. That's mostly inconvenience. But even the most ardent kickstand supporter has to acknowledge that kickstands have the potential for the kind of damage antokelly is describing. I've see lots and lots of bikes at my local co-op that have smashed chainstays due to overzealous tightening of the kickstand clamp.

And that's not the only kind of damage I've seen. I've seen frames that were almost completely worn through from someone riding with a loose kickstand.

And that is what this thread is about. Not the utility but the damage that can result from using them.
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Old 08-24-16, 11:33 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
I'm also fairly certain that every bike in that picture (even the ones leaning against the bridge) has a kickstand but none of them are being used...probably because the people riding them have lots of experience with the bikes toppling over and getting in everyone's way. I've been to The Netherlands and seldom saw anyone using a kickstand.
Or because even when one has a kickstand, if there is a designated open rack, it is pointless to leave your bike up elsewhere in people's way. Even on my bikes with kickstands (and I do have one without), I don't exclusively use them, but I do enjoy having them when there isn't a close option nearby.

I saw it quite frequently, such as at this brewery in Amesterdam (all free standing):

I wish I knew where my camera ended up in my move, I have plenty more examples if I'm not limited to what got uploaded to the blog.

I find it hard to believe that your bike leaning against your car fell over. Where can it fall to? Granted the bikes in my pictures that are leaning up against a tree or a post might fall over but only if I haven't stabilized the bike properly. When I used a kickstand even with the bike stabilized properly, it was prone to blowing over or to the kickstand sinking into soft ground. After watching my bike fall over a few times and having observed lots of kickstand equipped bikes topple over at bicycle events, putting it on the ground in the first place just seemed like the logical thing to do.
Where can it fall to? The ground.

I thought you didn't put your bike on the ground, though? From post 33:
As for laying the bike down, I rarely do that with my bike.
Just like leaning a bike, one must use the slightest bit of intelligence when using a kickstand. No, I'm probably not using a spiky piece of metal in soft ground, just like I'd never lean a bike against the street side of a parking meter where it can fall into the streets to get run over by a parallel parking car (as I have seen before on the streets of Ann Arbor).

You are going to have to work a whole lot harder to convince me (and others) that bicycles leaning against something fall over at the same rate as bicycles held up by kickstands. I haven't seen a whole lot of bikes leaning against walls or tables or benches, etc. just spontaneously leap away from the wall and topple over. I have seen a whole lot of bikes that seemed stable on their kickstands topple over from the slightest breeze.
And you are going to have to work a lot harder to convince me my kickstands fall over any more than bikes leaning against things, because I simply don't have that experience. To be quite honest, it is of little concern using either method to me.

But even the most ardent kickstand supporter has to acknowledge that kickstands have the potential for the kind of damage antokelly is describing. I've see lots and lots of bikes at my local co-op that have smashed chainstays due to overzealous tightening of the kickstand clamp.
I can concede that point. The fiancee's touring mixte is a prime example, the tubes are nicked where the PO wrenched it down. However, that is akin to arguing that one shouldn't use carbon tubes, because if you overtighten the seat bolt or stem, you can crack them. It is user error. I've had one on my MTB since I got it in the mid 90's without issue.

FWIW, I'll also concede that many that set them up have zero clue as to what they are doing, and do not size them properly, leading to the impression they will topple at the slightest wind. Done right, they function wonderfully, and give you options.
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Old 08-24-16, 12:05 PM
  #42  
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I bought the Click Stand because of what I read on Surly's website about the LHT (or I assume the rest of the models). I have used it for over 2,000 miles so far. My wife uses one also, I don't think hers has fallen over yet.

It won't work at all without the brake bands; on a loaded tourer you need to lock both brakes. My bike has not fallen over yet. I can access the contents of my panniers also without knocking the bike over.

For the weight weenies, the Click-Stand for my 54cm LHT tips the scales at 3.4 OZ. It is the larger thicker model.

I notice in the pictures all the bikes; I avoid parking my bike around other bikes and especially kids. Not that I dislike children, I just dislike parents who don't watch them and teach them not to touch other peoples belongings. Below is a picture of my bike in front of the Budweiser Clydesdales. The Click-Stand made that picture easy. I like the horses; better beer out there than Budweiser!


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Old 08-24-16, 12:39 PM
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crackin photo.
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Old 08-24-16, 01:52 PM
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Click stands are like stiff tent poles with a fork in the tip like a Salvador Dali painting


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Old 08-24-16, 03:15 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
A bike falling over, whether from falling off the kickstand or spontaneously leaping away from a wall, won't suffer much damage.

Except, of course, when the bike lands on a derailer and bends either the derailer or the hanger. That's not mere inconvenience, that's time for a new derailer, bending the hanger back precisely, or new derailer hanger. Without a kickstand, you've got a 50% chance the bike falls on that side; with a kickstand, the bike is probably leaning away from the derailer, so you've got a better chance of the bike surviving with only a few scratches.
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Old 08-24-16, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Click stands are like stiff tent poles with a fork in the tip like a Salvador Dali painting


thats where he got the idea
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Old 08-24-16, 08:54 PM
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I used a Click Stand for a while. It was okay. Better than nothing. Maybe better than a center-mounted two legged stand. Definitely better than a center mounted one legged stand, especially when dealing with a loaded touring bike. It might even beat the rear-mounted kickstand if your bike is heavily loaded, but I haven't had a problem with my rear mounted one yet. The reason I never got a Click-Stand for my current bike is that it's so much more difficult to deploy than an attached kickstand. The Clickstand became a device of last resort. But for touring, it was more useful because with a fully loaded bike, many kickstands are pretty dicy, and sometimes laying your bike on the ground might not be desirable. The most useful parts were the brake bands. By slipping those bands on to my brake levers, I can lean my bike against poles or benches or other structures that normally wouldn't hold my bike without very careful balancing because it would roll. I have a trip or two in the future where my bike will need to be disassembled and packed up, and in that case, I may leave the kickstand at home to save a little weight and a little time on the reassembly at the other end. In that situation, I may have to get another Click Stand, but otherwise, I'll stick with the rear-mounted stand I have.
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Old 08-25-16, 12:07 AM
  #48  
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A velcro band used as a "parking brake" does a lot to stabilize a bike. If a black band is used, it will also act as a detergent if some one tries to roll your bike away. The black color makes it a little harder for the thief to see, not like my red one.



I just use it to secure my frame pump until needed.



It really works well when the platform your bike is sitting on is not level or is moving like a train or ferry.
My daughter's bike on sloped ferry ramp.



This technique works well when leaning the bike against something or using a kickstand.

My bike has fallen over several times when loaded. There is not much chance of rear derailleur damage with the panniers on the bike. I'm a "lean it on something" person, and when my bike fell over, it was due to me being careless. If I took more care it would not be an issue.

I think most people use whatever method works for them.

Last edited by Doug64; 08-25-16 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 08-25-16, 01:20 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by antokelly
Andrew a new bike anytime is good

And an old one forever is even better.
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Old 08-25-16, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
Since this is a re-hash I thought newbies might be interested in this link to Surly's blog piece on kickstands:

Kickstands On Long Haul Truckers

I'll have them know my mom has built several of my favorite bikes over my lifetime, and she was always remodeling the houses we lived in.


She could repair her dad's dairy farm trucks (as good as a mechanic as my father was) too. Still can, just 70 with rods in her bad but the scoliosis that got repaired after 68 years never stopped her.


Why would you design a frame that would break if you added a kickstand? Sheesh.


Never make generalizations about somebodies mom.
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