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Novara - Safari 'Gearing' Change

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Novara - Safari 'Gearing' Change

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Old 09-03-16, 01:28 PM
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Novara - Safari 'Gearing' Change

This is a Deore gear-train, "Shimano 48/36/26 and Shimano HG4009, 11-34, 9-speed".

I was able to take my new 2016 Novara - Safari out for it's first ride yesterday, and I found that the gearing was too high in the lowest gear, and about the same amount too high in the highest. So basically one step (whatever that is) lower across the board would be preferable.

So how can I with the least amount of hassle and cost make such a change?

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Old 09-03-16, 01:36 PM
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Find another crankset - often cheaper than loose rings - in, say 42-32-22. Move the derailer down a little and you're done.
While Acera might be clinically bling-free, they work just fine.
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Old 09-03-16, 01:46 PM
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OK, I'm new to all of this and just learning, so bear with me. Does that mean all I need to do is order 3 new crank-sprockets and swap them for the current ones?
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Old 09-03-16, 01:59 PM
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I found this crankset in " 44.32.22t". I think this would work.

Shimano Deore M590 9 Speed Triple Chainset | Chain Reaction Cycles $75.99
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Old 09-03-16, 01:59 PM
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No, you are replacing the whole assembly of Crankarms with 3 sprockets And The BB as well

for a Compact mountain bike crank



Maybe you can fit a 22t to that 4 bolt circle? because factories Buy Millions of Cranksets
just buying 3 new chainrings will Cost <more>
this is what you have? https://www.bike24.com/p297019.html


from your link comes the relevent data : Bolt Circle Diameter: 104/64mm






./.

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Old 09-03-16, 02:37 PM
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Here's a pic of what's on there now.

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Old 09-03-16, 04:30 PM
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I see nothing wrong withj it , just go some where on The Bike

I think the inner 64 will take a 22T .. Still whole cranks are cheaper than all 3 chainrings at Retail.

Sell the one you have (or strip the 3 rings off the new one ) and sell the other with the current parts on It.

Modern cassettes fit a 12 or 11t cogs cannot push the market backwards
you can always set the Hi Limit screw to Block that one .

maybe you can find a 12-36
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Old 09-03-16, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AdvXtrm View Post
I found this crankset in " 44.32.22t". I think this would work.

Shimano Deore M590 9 Speed Triple Chainset | Chain Reaction Cycles $75.99

Yes this will work. I went with this arrangement on my touring bike. BUT... I would not do it again. Reason is that it puts most of my riding at the end of the middle ring and the start of the big ring. This equals lots of double shifts, and not optimum chain-line. Also, I think I have only shifted into the lowest combination once. Bottom line: The trade-off for lower gears that are very rarely used is poor performance in the gears you use most = not worth it.


For the slow gears with lots of pedaling, which is what touring riders are most concerned with, your current setup of 26T X 34T is a very reasonable 21.3 gear inches. The gearing you have now is pretty good. The best suggestion I can make is that you simply ride it as is for a while before making a change to see if you can get used to it.


Next suggestion is a pretty easy change to 24T granny ring. A 22T is not a good option with your current 36T middle ring because it would push both derailleurs past their limits and possibly cause chain-suck (although you can get a keeper to prevent chain-suck).


You could also go with a 36T cassette. I am quite sure your rear derailleur is long-cage (SGS), and the advertised max is 34T, BUT it should be able to handle a 36T. This is probably the best option because you can then go with a 12-36 cassette moving your shifting on both ends down. Best of all, a 12-36 cassette is only $25-$40. WARNING: After this change, don't go big-ring + big-cog. Good shifting practices would not put you in this combination, anyway. Also, you may need a new chain.
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Old 09-03-16, 04:53 PM
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Change your inner chainring 26 to 24 should only cost about ~$12.

22t might work too! $8.00 Go to REI.

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Old 09-03-16, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by timdow View Post
Yes this will work. I went with this arrangement on my touring bike. BUT... I would not do it again. Reason is that it puts most of my riding at the end of the middle ring and the start of the big ring. This equals lots of double shifts, and not optimum chain-line. Also, I think I have only shifted into the lowest combination once. Bottom line: The trade-off for lower gears that are very rarely used is poor performance in the gears you use most = not worth it.


For the slow gears with lots of pedaling, which is what touring riders are most concerned with, your current setup of 26T X 34T is a very reasonable 21.3 gear inches. The gearing you have now is pretty good. The best suggestion I can make is that you simply ride it as is for a while before making a change to see if you can get used to it. ....
depends on the rider's fitness, terrain, amount of gear, etc. i'd recommend
switching out the crank......22/32/44. (or change the rings, whatever
is cheaper...)

that's what i've got now, and honestly
i've only used the big ring maybe a half dozen times in the last 50,000 miles
of touring. (just haven't found a 40T to replace it with yet.) that 22 gets a
lot of use. my current crank.....i've now worn out and replaced the middle
ring twice and the inner ring once. other than scratches, the big ring is
almost like new.

i don't think 48/36/26 11-34 is reasonable on a touring bike.....the gears just aren't
conducive for riding a loaded touring bike outside of florida. the marketers
are pushing higher-geared gravel bikes. no reason to buy into the hype and
just "get used to it." i don't see the attraction in pushing a bike up a
30-km long hill.

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Old 09-03-16, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
depends on the rider's fitness, terrain, amount of gear, etc. i'd recommend
switching out the crank......22/32/44. (or change the rings, whatever
is cheaper...)

that's what i've got now, and honestly
i've only used the big ring maybe a half dozen times in the last 50,000 miles
of touring. (just haven't found a 40T to replace it with yet.) that 22 gets a
lot of use. my current crank.....i've now worn out and replaced the middle
ring twice and the inner ring once. other than scratches, the big ring is
almost like new.

i don't think 48/36/26 11-34 is reasonable on a touring bike.....the gears just aren't
conducive for riding a loaded touring bike outside of florida. the marketers
are pushing higher-geared gravel bikes. no reason to buy into the hype and
just "get used to it." i don't see the attraction in pushing a bike up a
30-km long hill.
Indeed, I am recovering from a very serious motorcycle collision that occurred less than 4 months ago. My left leg was broken, and both knees have numerous torn and stretched ligaments. I need to be very careful and precise about what gear I'm in and how much pressure is being placed on my knees. Since this happened to me I've chosen to give up motorcycling for good, and I've replaced it with bicycling instead.

So I'm new to serious bicycling, and bicycle touring specifically. I've been researching and learning a lot. I got a great deal on this bike, and overall I really like it, but it's going to need a few tweaks to match my body better. In-spite of re-breaking my collar-bone a few days ago, I decided to take the bike out on it's first ride yesterday, and I absolutely loved it. I'm so used to extreme pain I hardly notice the pain anymore, so I just keep on going.

Keeping in mind these injuries, and those are only a few of many more I'm dealing with, and that I rode out on some decent grades on dirt, sand, and rocks along the hills on the beach, I got a pretty good feel for this bike and it's gearing. I rode for around 5 hours straight over this kind of terrain. I learned a lot over the course of just that first ride.

The first thing I realized, and much to my surprise was how much more I love riding off-road than on. I'll take dirt, sand, and rocks over a paved road every-time now, and I never thought I'd say such a thing. This was a huge revelation to me about myself. The next thing I learned, was that for me, this stock gearing is a no go. I found that all three front chain-rings were a size too tall for me overall, and this is what led to make this post.

What you've shared here really jives with what I'm experiencing and the change I think I need to make. Keeping in mind that I haven't even had the chance to ride fully loaded yet, and I'm sure that will only make the need to lower the overall gearing that much more evident. So I think I'll go ahead and order up that lower geared Deore Crankset "44-32-22". I would have also considered something like 46-34-22, but I see no practical way to do that.
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Old 09-06-16, 08:07 AM
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So I'm new to serious bicycling, and bicycle touring specifically. I've been researching and learning a lot. I got a great deal on this bike, and overall I really like it, but it's going to need a few tweaks to match my body better. In-spite of re-breaking my collar-bone a few days ago, I decided to take the bike out on it's first ride yesterday, and I absolutely loved it. I'm so used to extreme pain I hardly notice the pain anymore, so I just keep on going.
I have two bicycle tours under my belt; 2,000 miles in 33 days to NY State in 2014, and 1,500 miles in 40 days June-July of this year in the UK, Ireland and France.

Spent twelve years and 250,000 miles on motorcycles myself and have since transitioned to bicycles, 59 yo at present.

Do not let anyone tell you you don't "need" a low gear, you need what you need, end of story.

Currently I'm running a 44-33-22 Nashbar Mt. Bike crankset up front, and a 12-36 cassette in back. It works fine for me.

For knee pain I use plain ol' platform pedals and regular footwear. Platform pedals allow you to move your feet around and hence the angle of the load on your knees, I find this helps enormously.

In the pic thats a 20 TOOTH granny, I had to switch it out for a 22 on this last tour because of clearance issues, but I'll be returning to a 20 tooth soon.




I'm on a reworked '89 Schwinn Voyageur with which I cannot find fault, tho I have long looked covetously at the Novara Safari when in REI.

First thing I would do with one is ditch the handlebar tape for foam.....



...and I agree, it ain't geared low enough.

Mike

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Old 09-06-16, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
I have two bicycle tours under my belt; 2,000 miles in 33 days to NY State in 2014, and 1,500 miles in 40 days June-July of this year in the UK, Ireland and France.

Spent twelve years and 250,000 miles on motorcycles myself and have since transitioned to bicycles, 59 yo at present.

Do not let anyone tell you you don't "need" a low gear, you need what you need, end of story.

Currently I'm running a 44-33-22 Nashbar Mt. Bike crankset up front, and a 12-36 cassette in back. It works fine for me.

For knee pain I use plain ol' platform pedals and regular footwear. Platform pedals allow you to move your feet around and hence the angle of the load on your knees, I find this helps enormously.

In the pic thats a 20 TOOTH granny, I had to switch it out for a 22 on this last tour because of clearance issues, but I'll be returning to a 20 tooth soon.

I'm on a reworked '89 Schwinn Voyageur with which I cannot find fault, tho I have long looked covetously at the Novara Safari when in REI.

First thing I would do with one is ditch the handlebar tape for foam.....

...and I agree, it ain't geared low enough.

Mike
Thanks for sharing your experience and the encouraging words brother. Before the bike arrived, I knew that I would have to get my own pedals, and good thing, because I would have likely just made do with whatever it came with, but this forced me to do some homework. I came to the conclusion that nice big platform pedals would be my best bet. After checking out all I could find available I found my choice, and man I love them. I can position the angle and width of my feet and legs just the way they need to be to take undue stress off my knees. This would simply not be possible with any other type.

I've got a new handlebar, stem riser, and new stem here. I also got some nice Ergon GC1 angle correcting grips. I really like the trekking styled bar, but I found one I liked better than the stock one and have that here. So those grips will be in my primary position, I'm going to wrap the rest, but underneath it will have Fizik Bar Gel pads, and the best and most comfy tape I could find. I also had to order new cables to accommodate the new rise, and that's the only part I'm still waiting on to be delivered here, and then I can do the install.

I also tried a few seats, and I just received my new Nashbar FS1, and I think this will be the one.

When you spoke about the "12-36 cassette in back", a light when off for me. That will be my next move if needed. Just thinking about it it seems perfect.

A friend of mine is laughing because I just got this bike and I will have almost the entire bike changed and customized in every conceivable way from stock. But for me that's a big part of what life's all about anyways. It felt so good to go on that first ride the other day, in-spite of the fact that just a few days prior I had re-broke my collarbone. It's a real nuisance, but it's not going to stop me from riding. When this level of pain is your constant companion you simply learn to live with it, and you can never let it stop you or keep you down. I'll be posting up some pics of my ride in the ride thread soon. I'll also post a pic of the bike, and once all finished, I'll post a build thread for it. Also your bike looks sweet. I wouldn't be changing to another myself if I had it.
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Old 09-06-16, 03:43 PM
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I use foam grips, and they have proven durable and comfortable enough that I cannot see a reason to mess with tape.

Bicycle Handlebar Grips, Bicycle Grips & Foam Sleeves

Slip an air hose underneath 'em when installing and they slide right on no problem.

Ergon grips here too.

I'm using a Brook's saddle, hard as a rock when new, but they break in nicely.

With respect to gearing; so long as the wheels are turning you're getting somewhere, speed is irrelevant.

OTOH if you find yourself straining on the pedals or wearing yourself out, then you are doing it wrong. A lower gear is usually the solution.

Mike
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Old 09-06-16, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
I use foam grips, and they have proven durable and comfortable enough that I cannot see a reason to mess with tape.

Bicycle Handlebar Grips, Bicycle Grips & Foam Sleeves

Slip an air hose underneath 'em when installing and they slide right on no problem.

Ergon grips here too.

I'm using a Brook's saddle, hard as a rock when new, but they break in nicely.

With respect to gearing; so long as the wheels are turning you're getting somewhere, speed is irrelevant.

OTOH if you find yourself straining on the pedals or wearing yourself out, then you are doing it wrong. A lower gear is usually the solution.

Mike
I may go the foam grip route next time around.
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Old 09-06-16, 09:27 PM
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Lightening the wt of the gear you're carrying might make enough difference to keep the original gearing.
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Old 09-07-16, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Lightening the wt of the gear you're carrying might make enough difference to keep the original gearing.
The gearing was inadequate for me when lightly loaded. It would only be worse when loaded for a long tour. I've got the '44-32-22' crankset on its way.
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Old 09-07-16, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by AdvXtrm View Post
The gearing was inadequate for me when lightly loaded. It would only be worse when loaded for a long tour. I've got the '44-32-22' crankset on its way.
The most often recommended gear range for is 20-100 gear inches (GI). Add in some wonky knees (me) and the low end will drop. I've also learned that there are days where a hill's incline would normally use gear X, but because of any number of reasons that same hill requires X-Y GI.

The 44-32-22 chain ring combo is one that has worked best for me, even for unloaded rides.

Brad
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Old 09-07-16, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AdvXtrm View Post
This is a Deore gear-train, "Shimano 48/36/26 and Shimano HG4009, 11-34, 9-speed".

I was able to take my new 2016 Novara - Safari out for it's first ride yesterday, and I found that the gearing was too high in the lowest gear, and about the same amount too high in the highest. So basically one step (whatever that is) lower across the board would be preferable.

So how can I with the least amount of hassle and cost make such a change?
Change the 26 chain ring to a 24 or 22. That is the change that will satisfy your requirement with the least amount of hassle and cost. You can also change your 48 chain ring for a 46 or even 44. Personally I wouldn't bother with changing the 48. You will almost never ride fast enough to exceed your middle chain ring when touring.
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Old 09-07-16, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AdvXtrm View Post
I may go the foam grip route next time around.

Another suggestion... when/if the stock headset loosens up, a Chris King headset...

https://www.chrisking.com/bicycle/touring/

Expensive but worth every penny. Headsets get hammered even in normal riding.

Mike
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Old 09-07-16, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
The most often recommended gear range for is 20-100 gear inches (GI). Add in some wonky knees (me) and the low end will drop. I've also learned that there are days where a hill's incline would normally use gear X, but because of any number of reasons that same hill requires X-Y GI.

The 44-32-22 chain ring combo is one that has worked best for me, even for unloaded rides.

Brad
Thanks, I'm really looking forward to receiving this set and getting it installed soon to give it a go.

Originally Posted by Yan View Post
Change the 26 chain ring to a 24 or 22. That is the change that will satisfy your requirement with the least amount of hassle and cost. You can also change your 48 chain ring for a 46 or even 44. Personally I wouldn't bother with changing the 48. You will almost never ride fast enough to exceed your middle chain ring when touring.
I've already ordered the new crankset. It should arrive within the next few days or so.

Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
Another suggestion... when/if the stock headset loosens up, a Chris King headset...

https://www.chrisking.com/bicycle/touring/

Expensive but worth every penny. Headsets get hammered even in normal riding.

Mike
Excellent, that will be my next, thanks!
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Old 09-07-16, 04:20 PM
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Excellent, that will be my next, thanks!
Ya, and to put things in perspective, what constitutes "really expensive" on bicycles just rates "average to inexpensive" on motorcycles
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Old 09-07-16, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
Ya, and to put things in perspective, what constitutes "really expensive" on bicycles just rates "average to inexpensive" on motorcycles
Exactly! Man! I'm all around much happier with the bicycling lifestyle to begin with, and the relative cost savings is like icing on the cake!
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Old 09-07-16, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by AdvXtrm View Post
Exactly! Man! I'm all around much happier with the bicycling lifestyle to begin with, and the relative cost savings is like icing on the cake!
Plus you end up healthier and feeling better while eating more...including cake icing!
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Old 09-12-16, 09:52 PM
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UPDATE:

I installed my new '44-32-22' crank-set last night, and took it out on my longest and most demanding ride yet. It worked out absolutely perfectly. It seemed like it may have been a bit of a gamble, but it sure did pay off big time. I would not want this bike geared one bit higher than this. At least not if and until I end up with Hercules legs or something. I was able to complete by far my longest and most demanding ride yet today, and I really don't think I could have done it with the original gearing. For anyone considering this change, I highly recommend it!

Now I just need to get my new bars installed and raised and then I should be good to go even further!

Last edited by AdvXtrm; 09-13-16 at 10:23 AM.
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