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-   -   Considering the Sequoia, but confused on specs... (https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1079113-considering-sequoia-but-confused-specs.html)

HiBoost 09-04-16 02:24 PM

Considering the Sequoia, but confused on specs...
 
Hi Everyone,

I am really interested in the new Specialized Sequoia for light touring and general all around road/gravel usage. My LBS doesn't have any of these in yet (maybe nobody does) so I'm left to parse the specs online for now. I'm really confused by the stack and reach measurements though. I currently ride a Cervelo R3 as my main road bike. I had also looked at the Diverge and AWOL but when the Sequoia was announced I felt it sounded like the best match for my needs. But check this out:

Cervelo R3 61 - Stack = 630, Reach = 405

Diverge Comp 61 - Stack = 643, Reach = 398

AWOL XL- Stack = 664, Reach = 409

Sequoia 61 - Stack = 625, Reach = 412

The progression from racier R3 to sport Diverge to touring AWOL makes total sense - stack keeps going up. But the Sequoia makes no sense to me. That has me lower and more stretched forward on a "light touring bike" than I am on an R3?

If I go with the Sequoia 58, the reach is 405.9 but the stack is only 604 so I'm going to be super low. I'm 6'4" with a 91.5cm inseam and 66cm torso. So the calculators definitely have me on a 61 in most frames. But in general I struggle with feeling too stretched out and usually end up running shorter than stock stems (like an 80mm on my R3). So that is what has me real concerned about these specs... hoping I'm just misinterpreting!

Thanks!

Brian25 09-04-16 04:52 PM

I did not do any number research with your provided numbers, but as an ex store owner, someone 6'-4" trying to ride a 58 cm seems like torture. Usually 58 is for 6' rider, unless you are talking about actual seat tube length. I think that you should really figure your preferred head tube length, to achieve your best comfort level. Well that's my 2cents. (maybe at least 8 inches /200 mm?)

jcmkk3 09-04-16 06:11 PM

I have a 58cm Diverge and ordered a 58cm Sequoia. Despite the differences in stack and reach, I expect the Sequoia to fit pretty similarly. One thing to consider is the 15mm rise in the Sequoia's handlebars. Also, the Sequoia is specced with a 10mm shorter stem than the Diverge.

Bezalel 09-04-16 07:54 PM

I wouldn't use seat tube size as the starting point, especially when comparing road to gravel bikes. Try starting with effective top tube.

HiBoost 09-04-16 07:58 PM


Originally Posted by Brian25 (Post 19032517)
I did not do any number research with your provided numbers, but as an ex store owner, someone 6'-4" trying to ride a 58 cm seems like torture. Usually 58 is for 6' rider, unless you are talking about actual seat tube length. I think that you should really figure your preferred head tube length, to achieve your best comfort level. Well that's my 2cents. (maybe at least 8 inches /200 mm?)

Yeah, all the calculators and formulas (I tried Lemond to Zinn and everything in between) all put me in the 61 range for sure. But like I said, any 61 I've owned I've had to get shorter reach bars and a shorter stem to be even remotely able to ride comfortably in the hoods. I'm just not very flexible. Meanwhile, I've ridden 58's a number of times (owned one for 10 years actually) and never felt cramped.



Originally Posted by jcmkk3
I have a 58cm Diverge and ordered a 58cm Sequoia. Despite the differences in stack and reach, I expect the Sequoia to fit pretty similarly. One thing to consider is the 15mm rise in the Sequoia's handlebars. Also, the Sequoia is specced with a 10mm shorter stem than the Diverge.

Ah, this is actually very helpful. I didn't realize that those bars had an upswing in them. I found another picture and see what you mean now. Also, were you given an ETA on yours? I haven't been able to get a solid date from anybody...

jcmkk3 09-04-16 08:18 PM


Originally Posted by HiBoost (Post 19032893)
Yeah, all the calculators and formulas (I tried Lemond to Zinn and everything in between) all put me in the 61 range for sure. But like I said, any 61 I've owned I've had to get shorter reach bars and a shorter stem to be even remotely able to ride comfortably in the hoods. I'm just not very flexible. Meanwhile, I've ridden 58's a number of times (owned one for 10 years actually) and never felt cramped.




Ah, this is actually very helpful. I didn't realize that those bars had an upswing in them. I found another picture and see what you mean now. Also, were you given an ETA on yours? I haven't been able to get a solid date from anybody...

I was told that it should arrive about the middle of this month. I somehow expect that timeframe to be a bit optimistic, but we'll see.

djb 09-05-16 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by HiBoost (Post 19032893)
Yeah, all the calculators and formulas (I tried Lemond to Zinn and everything in between) all put me in the 61 range for sure. But like I said, any 61 I've owned I've had to get shorter reach bars and a shorter stem to be even remotely able to ride comfortably in the hoods. I'm just not very flexible. Meanwhile, I've ridden 58's a number of times (owned one for 10 years actually) and never felt cramped.

I cannot help you specifically with your numbers question, but your comment here resonates with me with my similar experience. I am about 5'10" and have owned a med 54cm Tricross with a 90mm stem , on paper it should be too small for me, but the reality is that its a bike that I can ride 100km all day, day after day, and not have neck, wrist or back pain that is beyond regular riding discomfort.

bottom line, I would very much go with measurements that you know work for you, and stay fairly close to that--again, without knowing how much you ride, your fitness etc etc, its not a clear answer over the internet, but my example of being 5'10" and riding a 54 shows that numbers on charts do not always reflect real life, either for a persons body shape dimensions, or flexibility, or that some charts are made more for racers---I'd go with your instinct of what works, and frankly, you can always easily add a stem that is 1 or 2cm longer at some point if you begin to feel a little cramped if and when you ride more and get more flexible.

if you do measurements of seat to bars etc, do be careful of not using nose of saddle as a starting point, and also that diff drop bars have diff reach etc, so this can be a factor of where the hoods are also.

fietsbob 09-05-16 07:33 AM

Ah, The Mighty Sequoia .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoiadendron_giganteum


https://www.nps.gov/seki/index.htm

BigAura 09-05-16 07:52 AM

DK about the fit specifics, but the 2017 bike does look :thumb:

HiBoost 09-06-16 10:41 AM


Originally Posted by jcmkk3 (Post 19032940)
I was told that it should arrive about the middle of this month. I somehow expect that timeframe to be a bit optimistic, but we'll see.

I just called Specialized, they said end of Nov for the Elite 61 and end of Oct for the Expert 61... ugh!!!!

You might want to check them for whatever size/model you are getting... 877-808-8154

markokompic 09-16-16 04:45 AM

Any thoughts on Elite vs Expert specs?

I would like to buy Sequoia as my first steel bike, but I am not sure if the Expert specs are worth it. Expert has Sram Force, but with downgraded brakes and cassete, and carbon cranks. For the money, Elite seems to have much more value with 105 parts. I am not sure about the difference between Hayfield wheels on Elite and Cruzero wheels on Expert, although I could buy more than decent wheelset for the price difference.

I was told by Specialized dealer that these will be available in Europe in december.

Many thanks!

HiBoost 09-16-16 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by markokompic (Post 19059245)
Any thoughts on Elite vs Expert specs?

I would like to buy Sequoia as my first steel bike, but I am not sure if the Expert specs are worth it. Expert has Sram Force, but with downgraded brakes and cassete, and carbon cranks. For the money, Elite seems to have much more value with 105 parts. I am not sure about the difference between Hayfield wheels on Elite and Cruzero wheels on Expert, although I could buy more than decent wheelset for the price difference.

I was told by Specialized dealer that these will be available in Europe in december.

Many thanks!

I went for the elite myself. Seems like a much better deal and I'm not a huge fan of 1x on anything other than a mountain bike. From what I know the only difference in the spec of the wheels is the cruzero has sealed bearings. Either should be totally reliable long-term

markokompic 09-19-16 07:21 AM


Originally Posted by HiBoost (Post 19059498)
I went for the elite myself. Seems like a much better deal and I'm not a huge fan of 1x on anything other than a mountain bike. From what I know the only difference in the spec of the wheels is the cruzero has sealed bearings. Either should be totally reliable long-term

Thanks for answering. The more I consider 1x setup, more I think that it is not for me. I think that I will also go with Elite, but I will wait until they come to the stores, since I would like to see how the bike feels. I am also not sure how much more comfortable it is compared to carbon frame.
Also, price difference between Expert and Elite is so large, that for the price of Expert I can certainly buy Elite and additional Cruzero 650 wheels when they became available.

fietsbob 09-19-16 08:58 AM

NB: components can be changed at point of sale , by dealer, you buy from.

HiBoost 10-10-16 09:00 AM

Got my Elite the other day and took it out for the maiden ride. So far so good!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...009_124839.jpg

mstateglfr 10-10-16 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by HiBoost (Post 19113346)
Got my Elite the other day and took it out for the maiden ride. So far so good!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...009_124839.jpg

Are the bars and STIs 4" above the saddle, or is that just a trick based on the camera angle?

HiBoost 10-10-16 10:31 AM

Definitely a camera angle thing. Your question prompted me to go measure though, and I put the Sequoia side by side with my Cervelo R3 (both are size 61). The following picture again has some distortions but I can tell you that in real life both saddles are at the same height. The flat part of the Sequoia bars are about 1/2" below the saddle and about 2.5" above the flats on the Cervelo. So definitely a more upright position, but not 4" above the saddle. The 105 hydro controllers are also *huge* compared to the ultegra mechanical ones so that exaggerates the apparent height of the cockpit.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32742882/bars.jpg

edthesped 10-11-16 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by HiBoost (Post 19113346)
Got my Elite the other day and took it out for the maiden ride. So far so good!

Is that the stock stem on the bike?

HiBoost 10-11-16 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by edthesped (Post 19115211)
Is that the stock stem on the bike?

It is and I was surprised to see it was color matched unlike the pic on their website. I actually hate that and think it looks cheap somehow so I've ordered a black stem. What do you guys think about that? To me, any "real" bike always has a black stem and the only time I'd see a color-matched stem would be on a no-name Wal-Mart bike or something like that. Something about it just looks bad to me, but maybe I'm in the minority.

mstateglfr 10-11-16 07:53 AM


Originally Posted by HiBoost (Post 19115231)
It is and I was surprised to see it was color matched unlike the pic on their website. I actually hate that and think it looks cheap somehow so I've ordered a black stem. What do you guys think about that? To me, any "real" bike always has a black stem and the only time I'd see a color-matched stem would be on a no-name Wal-Mart bike or something like that. Something about it just looks bad to me, but maybe I'm in the minority.

When I see it on vintage MTBs(where I see it the most...or only, really) I love it. The stem and bars matching is reminiscent of a period in cycling...so its cool to see. Perhaps its cool to see on bikes from that period only though?...that would be understandable.

Either way, its a black stem- you cant go wrong with swapping it.



My earlier question about the height of the bars wasnt meant as criticism, just surprise. Its a relatively new style that I see here and there- a lot of stack height + positive rise stem + bars oriented on the same plane as the stem angle. This is in contrast with bars oriented so the ramps are parallel withe the ground.



On a related note- I love the 2 hole fork. Being able to secure a bottle cage or salsa anything cage really increases versatility.

edthesped 10-11-16 12:40 PM


Originally Posted by HiBoost (Post 19115231)
It is and I was surprised to see it was color matched unlike the pic on their website. I actually hate that and think it looks cheap somehow so I've ordered a black stem. What do you guys think about that? To me, any "real" bike always has a black stem and the only time I'd see a color-matched stem would be on a no-name Wal-Mart bike or something like that. Something about it just looks bad to me, but maybe I'm in the minority.

I completely agree but didn't want to say dam! that stem is ugly in case you put it on. I test rode the Elite the other day and it had a black stem so maybe it's something they're doing to the Expert build.

Also, did you have a chance to compare weight against the Elite? The Elite was very light and nimble and was a joy to ride. They didn't have an Expert for me to compare against but were pushing the Elite hard. I told them the gearing on the Elite wasn't low enough for me and got the I don't know what I'm talking about vibe at which point I went on my way.

HiBoost 10-11-16 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by edthesped (Post 19115949)
I completely agree but didn't want to say dam! that stem is ugly in case you put it on. I test rode the Elite the other day and it had a black stem so maybe it's something they're doing to the Expert build.

Also, did you have a chance to compare weight against the Elite? The Elite was very light and nimble and was a joy to ride. They didn't have an Expert for me to compare against but were pushing the Elite hard. I told them the gearing on the Elite wasn't low enough for me and got the I don't know what I'm talking about vibe at which point I went on my way.

I think you have the models mixed up. Mine *is* the elite. The expert is the white frame, 1x drivetrain, top of the line model. I didn't want 1x, nor the extra cost, and I thought the light green was a cool change in a world full of white and black bikes. I did not get a chance to do any weight comparisons, my elite is the only Sequoia my dealer has received at all. Only 5 in my size made it to the US so I was very lucky to get one at all. I'll post a weight on this when I take it to the shop later this week, but keep in mind that I'm a size 61 so all my bikes are going to be higher than "advertised" specs.

edthesped 10-11-16 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by HiBoost (Post 19115969)
I think you have the models mixed up. Mine *is* the elite. The expert is the white frame, 1x drivetrain, top of the line model. I didn't want 1x, nor the extra cost, and I thought the light green was a cool change in a world full of white and black bikes. I did not get a chance to do any weight comparisons, my elite is the only Sequoia my dealer has received at all. Only 5 in my size made it to the US so I was very lucky to get one at all. I'll post a weight on this when I take it to the shop later this week, but keep in mind that I'm a size 61 so all my bikes are going to be higher than "advertised" specs.

I guess I did. In any event I definitely like the bike but do not like the 1x11 drive train. I have a Vaya and an AWOL that the daughter claimed and both are much heavier than the "Expert"...

mdilthey 10-11-16 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by HiBoost (Post 19115231)
It is and I was surprised to see it was color matched unlike the pic on their website. I actually hate that and think it looks cheap somehow so I've ordered a black stem. What do you guys think about that? To me, any "real" bike always has a black stem and the only time I'd see a color-matched stem would be on a no-name Wal-Mart bike or something like that. Something about it just looks bad to me, but maybe I'm in the minority.

Today, a lot of custom framebuilders are doing this. Vanilla Workshop does it on just about all of their bikes. Color-matched stems is in vogue for the best bikes available in 2016.

edthesped 10-11-16 01:05 PM


Originally Posted by mdilthey (Post 19116002)
Today, a lot of custom framebuilders are doing this. Vanilla Workshop does it on just about all of their bikes. Color-matched stems is in vogue for the best bikes available in 2016.

In that case I'll be a frumpy out of style old man as I too would negotiate a black stem as part of the purchase. Also, if it's on the best available bikes I wonder why the stem on the Expert I test rode was black... (I had to double check to make sure I got the model right!)


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