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-   -   How to Make a Fitted, Molded Water Bottle/Tank? (https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1079543-how-make-fitted-molded-water-bottle-tank.html)

lightspree 09-07-16 01:44 PM

How to Make a Fitted, Molded Water Bottle/Tank?
 
To fit in the bottom of the main triangle, or underneath the bottom of the down tube.

The usual water bottles are a very inefficient shape, in the way they utilize the limited space there. A bottle that is rectangular in cross section (instead of round) utilizes the space better. If molded, it could also utilize the shape of the triangle better, and it could be molded to clamp around the frame tubing, eliminating the need for bottle cages.

The sizes of these sorts of bottles or tanks could also be customized, or tailored to suit the nature of the tour. On long desert tours, for example, larger tanks would be useful. It wouldn't be difficult to fit a gallon or more down there.

Bikepacking setups often try to utilize the frame as rack, and use the limited space available, and this is along those same lines.

I'd like to explore this more.

Does anyone have experience or ideas on how this could be taken further, and actually implemented - how the molding could be done?

(I am of course aware of Google. I'm hoping someone here might have something more specific, or specific sites, or some personal knowledge that would be helpful.)

shelbyfv 09-07-16 01:58 PM

Actually, for a given volume, a cylinder is more efficient than a cuboid, in terms of surface area to volume. Easy Google....

shelbyfv 09-07-16 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by lightspree (Post 19039548)
The usual water bottles are a very inefficient shape, in the way they utilize the limited space there.

Guess I'd better quote this statement so it doesn't disappear:foo: Carry on....

Bandera 09-07-16 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by shelbyfv (Post 19039570)
Actually, for a given volume, a cylinder is more efficient than a cuboid, in terms of surface area to volume. Easy Google....

Yep.

The classic Bidon in use for over a century is easy to retrieve/replace at pace in the tight quarters of a peloton from well designed cages, fits the hand, is easy to fill & clean and is cheap & disposable.
On tour same, same. I take four on LD rides and have sufficient range in the TX heat to cover a good bit of real-estate before replenishing.

Heavy, expensive, sloshing, scummy built-in tanks that don't move from bike to bike? :foo:
No thanks.

-Bandera

pdlamb 09-07-16 02:26 PM

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're planning to do with this "efficient" water tank. Is it going to be used to refill conventional water bottles, or have a tube to suck water up? It's a long way from my feet to my mouth...

shelbyfv 09-07-16 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by pdlamb (Post 19039663)
It's a long way from my feet to my mouth...

Apparently the distance is much shorter for some of us:roflmao:

lightspree 09-07-16 02:54 PM

No, the cylindrical shape is much less efficient at utilizing the space. Think about it. It's basic geometry.

What is the volume of a four-inch diameter cylinder that is eight inches long?

What is the volume of a four-inch wide, eight-inch long container that is square in cross section?

Rectangular shapes can utilize the space even better.

And the bottom of the main triangle is not utilized with conventional water bottles.

C'mon, guys. Rub your remaining two brain cells together, and make a spark.

lightspree 09-07-16 02:57 PM


Originally Posted by pdlamb (Post 19039663)
I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're planning to do with this "efficient" water tank. Is it going to be used to refill conventional water bottles, or have a tube to suck water up? It's a long way from my feet to my mouth...

Efficient, as I tried to indicate, in the sense of more fully utilizing the available space.

It could have a tube, like a Camelback, or it could be removable like a standard water bottle in a cage.

Sizes could vary according to the need of the tour.

shelbyfv 09-07-16 03:00 PM

Like before, you are trying to "figure" things without the background knowledge. "Sounds good to me" isn't enough. Here is what you need to know https://www.quora.com/Which-shape-gi...linder-and-why

shelbyfv 09-07-16 03:06 PM

QUOTE=lightspree;19039747]No, the cylindrical shape is much less efficient at utilizing the space. Think about it. It's basic geometry.

What is the volume of a four-inch diameter cylinder that is eight inches long?

What is the volume of a four-inch wide, eight-inch long container that is square in cross section?

Rectangular shapes can utilize the space even better.

And the bottom of the main triangle is not utilized with conventional water bottles.

C'mon, guys. Rub your remaining two brain cells together, and make a spark.[/QUOTE] Aside from your geometry errors, on Touring bikes the "bottom of the main triangle" AKA downtube, often has a third braze on for a water bottle.

Tourist in MSN 09-07-16 03:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by lightspree (Post 19039747)
...
C'mon, guys. Rub your remaining two brain cells together, and make a spark.

Use bigger bottles. The one liter bottles in the photo were ideal.

I would find that a really big triangular shaped tank that was more than a kg (or liter equivalent in weight) would be less than ideal to lift up and take a swig from. If you want to use a hose to suck water from, get a big frame bag and put bladders in it.

fietsbob 09-07-16 03:18 PM

Well Tell us about your fabulous workshop you make things in..

Have you worked with Fiberglass before?




you could have a really big downtube in a Ti Bike , have it sealed at both ends

and have a filler cap on the top and a Spigot on the bottom..


BITD My Dad had a Canvas Bag of water hanging outside the car , a little water would seep through the cotton canvas,

But as It did so, the water evaporated and cooled the rest of the water inside the Bag.





./.

lightspree 09-07-16 03:22 PM


Originally Posted by Bandera (Post 19039662)
...The classic Bidon in use for over a century........

Heavy, expensive, sloshing, scummy built-in tanks that don't move from bike to bike? :foo:
No thanks.

-Bandera

No need for them to be heavy.

No need for them to be expensive.

No need to slosh, or be scummy -- in fact, it's easy to design it to be less sloshing than conventional or over-a-century-old and often scummy water bottles.

No need for these not to move from bike to bike.

Old designs become dated designs.

Bandera 09-07-16 04:30 PM


Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN (Post 19039772)
Use bigger bottles. The one liter bottles in the photo were ideal.

Did you know that:


the bottom of the main triangle is not utilized with conventional water bottles.
?

-Bandera

Bandera 09-07-16 04:43 PM


Originally Posted by lightspree (Post 19039814)
No need for them to be heavy.

No need for them to be expensive.

No need to slosh, or be scummy -- in fact, it's easy to design it to be less sloshing than conventional or over-a-century-old and often scummy water bottles.

No need for these not to move from bike to bike.

Old designs become dated designs.

Less expensive, more ergonomic, able fit into a dishwasher and readily replaced at W-Mart or your LBS than a simple Bidon? Not so much.
Don't count on a land rush kickstarter campaign.

Classic designs endure because they have been proven to meet all requirements of use in service, in this case for over a century in racing, touring and MTB.

-Bandera

shelbyfv 09-07-16 04:56 PM

I put my efficiently shaped, easy to hold, easily replaced water bottles in the dishwasher. If your bottles have scum you should wash them. If I need more than three (third mount on downtube) I can put a couple in my pockets. I've seen some triathletes with reservoirs of various sorts, looked hard to clean. This thread has been amusing, thanks! BTW, I'll be traveling in a few days, going to keep an eye out for those gasoline tankers with the new efficient cuboid shape!

DrIsotope 09-07-16 07:29 PM

How about you just get a big ol' frame bag like a Revelate, and stuff two Camelbak Antidote bladders in there. Bam, 200oz. Like 12 pounds of water. :thumb:

Vintage_Cyclist 09-07-16 08:02 PM

How about going with an efficient, gravity fed water system that makes takes advantage of space that is normally unused...

http://www.bikeforums.net/data:image...yrKysqWi1H/9k=http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2.../Capture_2.jpg
http://www.bikeforums.net/data:image...yrKysqWi1H/9k=

LeeG 09-07-16 08:26 PM


Originally Posted by DrIsotope (Post 19040357)
How about you just get a big ol' frame bag like a Revelate, and stuff two Camelbak Antidote bladders in there. Bam, 200oz. Like 12 pounds of water. :thumb:

Too easy. Needs to be a tank at the bottom of the frame that a bottle nestles into and is refilled everytime it's placed back in its frame through a valve in the bottom of the bottle. It will revolutionize hydration.

alan s 09-07-16 08:31 PM

Everyone knows the flask is the most efficient.

http://lghttp.42515.nexcesscdn.net/8...ped_rev_1.jpeg

Rowan 09-08-16 04:19 AM

Here's another little negative well known to anyone who tours with a bike or 4wd or even by foot in remote areas -- spread your fluids such as fuel and water around several containers rather than putting them all in one big container. Why? Because if the big one springs leak without you knowing, you will lose everything. If one of the smaller containers springs a leak, you won't lose the lot.

Certainly, bladders are a much better proposition. Imagine that -- a square bladder that become cylindrical when it's filled! The best of both geometric worlds!

shelbyfv 09-08-16 04:35 AM

Speaking of bladders, a few years ago I got a couple of full one liter water bottles. Took a little searching. Anyway, some in my riding group referred to them as the "bladder busters." Amusing but maybe not too original. I think a convenience store once marketed a plus sized soft drink with that name. Rowan is certainly on the mark with the multiple containers point.

indyfabz 09-08-16 04:39 AM

Sometimes Bikeforums is very much like WebMD. You were doing just fine for all your years until you visited the site and discovered you had a real problem.

saddlesores 09-08-16 04:54 AM


Originally Posted by lightspree (Post 19039548)
To fit in the bottom of the main triangle, or underneath the bottom of the down tube.

The usual water bottles are a very inefficient shape, ....

you're going about this all wrong.....try to think outside the box,
or in the case, the frame. actually, think INside the frame.

think about it, the frame interior is all wasted space. why not
make the frame out of drinking water standard materials, with
a pvc coating on the insides. you'd need to block off and
connect the top tube and downtube, and design in a couple
valves and a filler fitting. go with oversize tubing and do away
with the exterior water bottles.

keep the seattube separate, and can be used as a porta potty
with integrated catheter. no more peepee stops!

10 Wheels 09-08-16 05:06 AM

Two mounted behind the saddle works well.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...0502mitour.jpg


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