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high end stuff

Old 10-08-16, 03:36 PM
  #26  
MassiveD
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Why are you discussing your budget in a thread about high end bikes. People don't go into LHT threads and talk about how their bonus was 40 million dollars last year and they can't imagine buying some crap from China. There are probably as many people in the US with a 1 million dollar bonus as there are people taking 3 months off to go cycling on a budget of 1400 dollars.

A prominent US tourist just got robbed of 10 million in jewels the other day, not everyone tours on a budget. Robin Williams grossed 5 billion at the box office and had a net worth of around 50 million. He used to go to the NAHBS. Not everyone is eating out of a dumpster.
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Old 10-08-16, 03:40 PM
  #27  
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I wouldn't pay 10K for it either, but I don't think you have to.
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Old 10-08-16, 03:52 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by bikenh View Post
When weight isn't an issue then weight isn't an issue. Until tourists get smart and start dropping weight out of there packing setup there's no reason to build an ultra light bicycle for the heavy weight carrying tourist. Talk about stupid idea.
Most of my "tours" are one-day, all out, as far as one can ride until falling off the bike.

But, I did also get out for a multi-day tent camping trip recently when I got slammed with hill climbing.

So, yes, lighter gear. But it would be nice to shave a few pounds off of the bike too.

It might be nice to someday get a tour specific bike, but I'm not at all interested in a LHT style bike. I'll be considering bike designs carefully over the next year or so.
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Old 10-08-16, 05:39 PM
  #29  
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Beautiful bike. Cant imagine using that for touring.

My touring bike was built with utility in mind, not beauty and elegance. I love how it looks, yes, but it has grease and dirt and wear marks. Its properly maintained, but if i had something like that to tour on i am positive i would be too concerned with the bike and not enough with the adventure.
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Old 10-08-16, 07:09 PM
  #30  
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Hahaha... I'm sure all the people who got their 1 million dollar bonus's are all over a thread on bike forums about why there are no high end bikes.
Er, I mean, they have their assistants looking into it.

Or it could be, that unlike Ferrari's, touring bicycles are not seen by the rich and famous as "status symbols". If you can't tour successfully on the production models available there is something wrong with you, not the bike. However, if you want to spend more it's a free world and no one will stop you but, as someone else said, if you want to spend more than what most successful touring people choose to just because you can it's up to you to seek out the makers - They aren't really lining up to "offer" stuff on the shelf the majority of their customers don't want to buy.

Also, it may be that the majority of bicycle tourer's fall into the group of people who don't believe what you own reflects who you are. You need to take up golf for that. It may be they believe more that it's what you do that defines who you are in regards to touring and they find they can do plenty without high end.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 10-08-16 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 10-08-16, 08:02 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I am shocked there have been so many legitimate responses to Squeeze asking this question...again.
So go somewhere else. If you don't like the discussion please leave.
The original question was, what would a high end bicycle consist of? Please stick to the question. If you don't like the idea of a high quality bicycle then start a thread attacking the concept, and stay out of this one.

Last edited by Squeezebox; 10-08-16 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 10-08-16, 08:40 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by MassiveD View Post
....People don't go into LHT threads and talk about how their bonus was 40 million dollars last year and they can't imagine buying some crap from China......

no, they don't. they go to threads where the OP states:

Originally Posted by Ethan294 View Post
Im preparing for a cross country trip this summer.(oregon to NY). Ive decided i want to purchase a Surly Long Haul Trucker....
and give helpful responses like:

Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Any chance you can afford a better bicycle?
and:

Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Maybe you can set your sights on something better than a cheap bicycle.

Last edited by saddlesores; 10-08-16 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 10-08-16, 08:41 PM
  #33  
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I looked at the builder sites that MassiveD mentioned. Beautiful stuff. You should look at them also, just for the education. Be careful you might lose your affection for the LHT.
Bruce Gordon is over $4K. Co-motion is well known. Someone else was closer to $6K in steel and will do Ti for about the same price. Calfee is willing to adjust their adventure frame to touring, and has experience doing so. My guess carbon wheels would add $1K, electronic shifting maybe an extra $1.5K. A person probably could get a custom fork with eyelets. carbon cranks, stem, bars and bits. So I guess it could be done.
Indulge yourself in a bit of creativity.
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Old 10-08-16, 08:47 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
no, they don't. they go to threads where the OP states:



and give helpful responses like:



and:
My comment was meant to be helpful. I firmly stand by my opinion of the LHT. It is a good idea to suggest someone check out what else is out there and what may be better suited for that person.
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Old 10-08-16, 08:50 PM
  #35  
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In order to understand why no matter how many times you ask this same sort of question you get no satisfactory answer, you will have to somehow get over the notion that more expensive automatically translates as better. Or at least that more expensive bicycling gear does not really lend itself as well to touring on a bicycle with a load. Its been explained over and over that in many instances higher price translates into lighter weight at the expense of the durability that most tourers would rather invest in.

It would be fun to tour on a ten thousand dollar bicycle with a credit card. If I was in the income bracket to do so, its just barely possible that it would be even more fun than when I do it on a bike that I have only about 200 bucks into.

And on another note, how is the 920 holding up? Any ride reports on how its done on varying terrain, what kind of loads its carried and how?

Edit to ask, what is your infatuation with expensive bicycles? Whats the obsession with just spending to spend?
For example, I have taught people how to make pottery who went out and purchased the most expensive equipment they could, while taking lessons from a professional using mid range antique stuff, or even some low end beginner level equipment, simply because it works just as well if not better for my needs. All against my advice, they spent tons of money, and as predicted do less with it than many do with more reasonable tools. I make a living at it without buying the boutique high dollar stuff.

Last edited by shipwreck; 10-08-16 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 10-08-16, 08:58 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I am shocked there have been so many legitimate responses to Squeeze asking this question...again.
^^^ That.
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Old 10-08-16, 09:04 PM
  #37  
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I will go out on a limb and say it would not be fun to solo tour on a $10,000 bike.

I would worry every time I took my eyes off of it, worry someone would recognize the value and cut the lock off, worry they would just lift it into a truck, worry they would strip it in minutes. Savvy bike thieves know stripped parts sell safer than whole bikes because they can't be identified. I would worry when I went into a store, a bathroom or a cafe... all stuff one has to do on tour and all that worrying would not counter any benefit $10,000 worth of ego stroking might promise to deliver.

Who's going to notice? On my last tour I did not meet and talk to one other cyclist. How long before I wonder if I could have gotten the same ride for half the price. How many hours in the saddle until I had to admit I spent a lot of money on a name or the idea of an image with no pay off because no one was around to notice.

Potential theft on tour is a real practical concern that impacts my decision making and ability to have fun. It tells me where I can go and not go, what I can do and how long I can do it.
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Old 10-08-16, 09:40 PM
  #38  
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My idea is $2K tourer with aluminum frame, elastomer suspension & IGH/belt. Faster, more comfortable & far less maintenance than std current tourer. Only a matter of time before Shimano introduces a Rohloff-killer 14-speed IGH. We have the tech, it's just not being used logically for the touring market.
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Old 10-08-16, 09:50 PM
  #39  
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I like trying different ideas so my goal is the best quality in a package I can afford to use and then switch if something else catches my eye. I sometimes think fast tough road bike for a quick UL/cc tour, strong all rounded for loaded touring or something like Max's fat bike for off road/trail tours. And that's on top of my vintage fetish. I can't afford $10K a pop!
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Old 10-08-16, 10:06 PM
  #40  
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Your infatuation with cheap and mediocre won't let you understand my opinion.
Higher quality means stronger, more reliable. nothing to do with bling.
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Old 10-08-16, 10:10 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
My comment was meant to be helpful. I firmly stand by my opinion of the LHT. It is a good idea to suggest someone check out what else is out there and what may be better suited for that person.
You are certainly entitled to you opinion. However, your opinion might have some credibility if it was based on more than a 10 minute ride around the LBS's parking lot.

I'm also sure that you meant to be helpful to a person taking their first step into touring; but encouraging a person to buy a more expensive bike as their first purchase is not very good advice at all. IMO a much better approach is buying a good, reasonably priced touring bike with a good reputation that is set up reasonably well, and get some experience touring on it. There are several bikes that fit this description, including the LHT. That experience will allow them to make good decisions based on the things that did or did not work for them. How do they evaluate the merits of a touring bike if they never toured before?

The primary questions after their first tour are: did they like bike touring, and will they tour again? If a person has never toured before, how do they know whether they will really get into touring, and will stick with it until they actually try it? I think Shipwreck's pottery analogy is a good example of a similar situation.

Last edited by Doug64; 10-08-16 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 10-08-16, 10:15 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Your infatuation with cheap and mediocre won't let you understand my opinion.
Higher quality means stronger, more reliable. nothing to do with bling.
and your opinion is based on.....what 'zackly?
you've had zombiekiller stuffed in the basement all summer.
you live within rock-throwing distance of the katy.
shirley you must have taken 'ol zee-kay out for a spin!
well.......just how awesome is that $2000 low-end rig?
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Old 10-08-16, 10:20 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
and your opinion is based on.....what 'zackly?
you've had zombiekiller stuffed in the basement all summer.
you live within rock-throwing distance of the katy.
shirley you must have taken 'ol zee-kay out for a spin!
well.......just how awesome is that $2000 low-end rig?
You know nothing about me. Your comments are foolish.
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Old 10-08-16, 10:32 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Your infatuation with cheap and mediocre won't let you understand my opinion.
Ah, but there you are wrong. You see, I actually make things that are high quality and decidedly not cheap. And I do it using gear that is adequate for the job rather than being uselessly over engineered to appeal to someone with more stars in their eyes than dedication to actually seeing it through.

One of my hobbies is buying high quality bikes that have sat in basements for decades, because they were purchased and then never used. I wonder how many of the really nice bikes with less than 500 miles on them were purchased based on this opinion that I will never understand. Guess it doesn't matter, cause their mine now, and getting the piss ridden out of them.
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Old 10-08-16, 10:51 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Higher quality means stronger, more reliable. nothing to do with bling.
This isn't necessarily true. Dura ace etc. isn't always going to be more durable (or appropriate) than cheaper options. In fact, I wouldn't really recommend running that stuff if reliability and durability are the main concerns, which they very often are for people that are touring.

Last edited by manapua_man; 10-08-16 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 10-08-16, 11:02 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
Ah, but there you are wrong. You see, I actually make things that are high quality and decidedly not cheap. And I do it using gear that is adequate for the job rather than being uselessly over engineered to appeal to someone with more stars in their eyes than dedication to actually seeing it through.

One of my hobbies is buying high quality bikes that have sat in basements for decades, because they were purchased and then never used. I wonder how many of the really nice bikes with less than 500 miles on them were purchased based on this opinion that I will never understand. Guess it doesn't matter, cause their mine now, and getting the piss ridden out of them.
Just good enough does not count as quality. I was able to afford a better bicycle. Good for me. By the way Dura Ace doesn't do touring gearing.

Still you know nothing about me, or my appreciation for quality.

LHT may be functional at best but high quality it just ain't.
I do wish we could get out of this pissing match and talk about what a high quality touring bicycle would be.

Last edited by Squeezebox; 10-08-16 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 10-08-16, 11:18 PM
  #47  
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Actually, "good enough" is the standard by which one should judge the quality of a bike/component.

There is a place for high end products, as you call them, or I might more accurately describe something as high performance (not the same thing as a Gucci bag is high end yet not necessarily higher performance). That place is when the quality/grade of your equipment limits what you want to achieve. So...

That's why a department store "type" bike is usually not recommended for touring. The quality is suspect enough that one can anticipate failures that might impede a tours successful conclusion.

It's why a single speed is not usually recommended for hilly terrain. The design parameters create a performance restriction that most would find a barrier.

Now, a mid range, 1000 - 2000 dollar touring bike generally has the quality and design features that allow most people to tour successfully. It is "good enough". Occasionally a person may find that they are touring so awesomely that they need something "more" but for the most part, those people are few and far between. I'm not one of them. Maybe the guys and gals that do RAMM or the Trans Am are or maybe someone crossing Antarctica.. I dunno.

So, are you one of those people who has surpassed the performance range of mid range bikes on actual tours and thus "need" a higher quality bike or is it just "bling"? If so, I'm really interested in the tours you have completed and how the bike you used did, or did not, add or detract from your experience.

I have done some tours and can tell you in pretty good detail how I found my various bikes performance to have been so it's not like I'm asking anything of you I can not describe myself.

You keep talking about your appreciation of quality but to some of us, that appreciation is misplaced. Sure we all like "stuff" but the quality most appreciate is of the tour, not the bike. You have not done the tour part so you are forever fixated on the bike, your only avenue or outlet for affection. What would a high quality touring bike look like? Like the one you use to complete a tour that gives you a feeling of accomplishment and pleasure. Touring being a verb. It's not a touring bike if it never tours. Then it is just a very expensive paper weight.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 10-08-16 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 10-08-16, 11:46 PM
  #48  
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$2K sure isn't mid range in my book. I can and do appreciate the qualities of a better bicycle. I doubt that those of us are far and few between. I actually did not feel safe on the LHT. 10 minutes up the street was enough. I almost walked back. I'm pleased with my 920. Let's face it, there are only a few bicycles with touring geometry and gearing to choose from.
So if you can't and/or don't appreciate a quality bicycle so be it.
But please stop attacking me because I can and do appreciate the difference.

So can we get on to what would be a lighter and probably stronger touring bicycle.

Last edited by Squeezebox; 10-08-16 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 10-09-16, 12:06 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
$2K sure isn't mid range in my book. I can and do appreciate the qualities of a better bicycle. I doubt that those of us are far and few between. I actually did not feel safe on the LHT. 10 minutes up the street was enough. I almost walked back. I'm pleased with my 920. Let's face it, there are only a few bicycles with touring geometry and gearing to choose from.
So if you can't and/or don't appreciate a quality bicycle so be it.
But please stop attacking me because I can and do appreciate the difference.

So can we get on to what would be a lighter and probably stronger touring bicycle.
As far as I'm concerned, every bicycle is a touring bicycle.
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Old 10-09-16, 12:27 AM
  #50  
Happy Feet
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
I actually did not feel safe on the LHT. 10 minutes up the street was enough. I almost walked back.
Sorry, this explains a lot. I think I understand now. Carry on.
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