Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

high end stuff

Old 10-07-16, 03:00 PM
  #1  
Squeezebox
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,077
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
high end stuff

I'm wondering why nobody seems to offer high end stuff for touring. It's possible to spend $10K + on a single bicycle. That puts Co-motion and such solid in mid-range. Folks like Calfee, landshark, don't seem to offer the right geometry with eyelets and such for a real touring frame. The tandem folks do talk about carbon triple cranks, and Di2 derailers, also carbon wheels and some other things.
So is it at least theoretically possible to put together a high end touring bicycle?
What would it be?
Squeezebox is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 03:28 PM
  #2  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Squeezebox, The touring market probably isn't large enough for a manufacturer to offer a really high end model. If one should consider introducing a high end model, what would it be? Look through the photo thread and there is a very wide variety of touring bikes owned by forum members.

There is also a lot of conservatism WRT component selection, to wit disc brakes are fairly new to touring bicycles...not to mention opinions about them, or 2X drive trains, and frame material. If I had to just spend a lot of money on a touring bike I'd look no further than Bruce Gordon. Even then it probably wouldn't cost as much as a high roadie.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 03:33 PM
  #3  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,398

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6839 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 217 Times in 180 Posts
Someone will build as expensive a Bike for you as Your wallet is ready to absorb.. custom frame and His racks from say Bruce Gordon in Petaluma*

You can even Order a custom frame from say a German Framebuilder and Fly to Germany and get on it and start your trip.

Or Order a Custom assembled Bike Using the NL Koga Company's Signature program of parts Menus, and fly to Shiphol, the AMS airport
Specify it sent to one of their Dealers in towns Near By..

and do the same sort of Fly and Ride with It. * fly and ride to Petaluma can work too, as there is a 101 Bus from SanFrancisco.




'/,

Last edited by fietsbob; 10-07-16 at 03:38 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 03:48 PM
  #4  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,368
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8524 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Someone will build as expensive a Bike for you as Your wallet is ready to absorb..
And you missed your favorite Eugene based touring bike company!!!

Most of the Bike Friday bikes will hit between $1000 and $2000, but as with many things the sky is the limit. So, I'm sure they'd build a Campy Super Record bike if you wish. Di2? EPS?
CliffordK is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 04:29 PM
  #5  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 21,258

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2473 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times in 71 Posts
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
I'm wondering why nobody seems to offer high end stuff for touring. It's possible to spend $10K + on a single bicycle. That puts Co-motion and such solid in mid-range. Folks like Calfee, landshark, don't seem to offer the right geometry with eyelets and such for a real touring frame. The tandem folks do talk about carbon triple cranks, and Di2 derailers, also carbon wheels and some other things.
So is it at least theoretically possible to put together a high end touring bicycle?
What would it be?
A Co-Motion is certainly a high end bike. The Americano has a $2000 price tag for an off the shelf version. That puts it solidly in the expensive category. Go custom on the frame and you can add more to that price.

As for spending a whole lot of money on a bike, it depends on what you hang on the frame. A set of wheels with Phil Wood hubs, DT Alpine spokes and Velocity A23 rims (with an OC rim on the back) will set you back $900 without labor to build it. A good drivetrain could add another $1500. With assorted gewgaws, it wouldn't be difficult to push that $10k pretty hard.
__________________
Stuart Black
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 05:55 PM
  #6  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 8,250

Bikes: '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara/Centurion Ironman, '18 Diamondback Syncr, '18 handmade steel roadbike

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2969 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 149 Times in 105 Posts
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
I'm wondering why nobody seems to offer high end stuff for touring.
It hasnt changed in the 3 months since you last asked, or the last 6 months since younasked before that, or 10 months since you first asked.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 06:01 PM
  #7  
zonatandem
Senior Member
 
zonatandem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 11,018

Bikes: Custom Zona c/f tandem + Scott Plasma single

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Go cu$tom and get exactly what you want,
Pricey? Sure . . . but our custom carbon fiber tandem has over 40,000 miles on it so far.
zonatandem is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 06:34 PM
  #8  
Dream Cyclery
Wheel Builder
 
Dream Cyclery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've noticed many touring cyclists are very budget conscious. Maybe that's why?

I've dealt with custom tandems and customers have different mindset. For an example, Custom Helix tandem will set you back around $18k with couplers and $20k with Calfee version. A triple tandem that can be double or single will set you back$25k. And these are just for the frame and fork. So with set of Enve's and DI2 with hydro? We are looking at $35k+. I do consider them as touring cyclists as they usually travel a lot.

The common thing about tandem customers are the partners are all equally into cycling and they ride a lot together. Also they want to get it right at the first time and don't want to waste time on wrong equipment.
Dream Cyclery is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 07:23 PM
  #9  
Yan 
BeaverTerror
 
Yan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 2,006

Bikes: 1995 Kestrel 4000; 2013 True North Touring; 1989 Miele Tivoli; 1979 Colnago Sport

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why so few $10k touring bikes? Same reason there are so few $1k sandwiches. Not enough dumb asses in the world to support the market segment.
__________________
Yan
Yan is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 07:49 PM
  #10  
saddlesores
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangkok...and....Hainan
Posts: 2,945

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
I'm wondering why nobody seems to offer high end stuff for touring. It's possible to spend $10K + on a single bicycle.....
how 'bout you buy one of them fantasy high end touring bikes
and give us a report on how superior they are.......for collecting
dust and/or drying underwear in the basement.
saddlesores is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 07:58 PM
  #11  
manapua_man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I know a few people who would argue that if it isn't custom, it isn't really "high end".
manapua_man is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 10:02 PM
  #12  
LeeG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,906
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
I'm wondering why nobody seems to offer high end stuff for touring.
You silly person, "they" don't offer it, you seek it and find it. You seek out $20,000 end tables, "they" don't offer them. You seek out $50,000 watches or $600,000 cars. Where do you get such nonsense ideas. If you want a $20,000 touring bike someone will create it just for you. They didn't offer it, you sought it.

Last edited by LeeG; 10-08-16 at 08:29 AM.
LeeG is offline  
Old 10-07-16, 10:25 PM
  #13  
boomhauer
Senior Member
 
boomhauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 651
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
a high end touring bicycle?
What would it be?
anything with a Rohloff Hub and hydraulic disk brakes and frame couplings....and a nice seat....and something to rest your elbows on....
boomhauer is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 09:02 AM
  #14  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,398

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6839 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 217 Times in 180 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
And you missed your favorite Eugene based touring bike company!!!

Also in town and both consulting often with Bi Fri, and making his own is Rob English, custom bikes ,

Human powered machines Cargo bikes.. [Winter cycles Bi Fri alumni. left town ] Co-Mo still there.



(I am thinking of a frame swap Pocket Llama for a NWT's, lower BB..in town foot down .)


fietsbob is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 09:40 AM
  #15  
BigAura
 
BigAura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chapin, SC
Posts: 3,381

Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
What would it be?
Not sure but I'd start with a Long Haul Trucker frame-set

Last edited by BigAura; 10-08-16 at 09:47 AM.
BigAura is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 11:41 AM
  #16  
robow
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,191
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 246 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
how 'bout you buy one of them fantasy high end touring bikes
and give us a report on how superior they are.......for collecting
dust and/or drying underwear in the basement.
And on that note,
****
robow is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 12:49 PM
  #17  
MassiveD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Yan View Post
Why so few $10k touring bikes? Same reason there are so few $1k sandwiches. Not enough dumb asses in the world to support the market segment.
Your answer may be right, but the question is fine. I go to my local bike shop and there are several large racks of suspended MTBs in the 4k range. That appears a comfort zone in a region that is not particularly wealthy. We have another shop that is not overly expensive, it would have a range of prices, they have very expensive BMX bikes and parts, out of hundreds of bikes they sell one floor model touring bike 1500.

And who really uses their bikes? Pretty common up here to pull a trans-can. That is a whole summer on the bike.

To me the question is are all tourists really cheap, or is the custom segment so ingrained we don't need the upper end. When custom bikes started to be built back in the 60s revival, Mariposa for instance, up here. Touring bikes were a big part of it. Early custom bikes were heavily represented in touring. And boutique parts like Phil also served that market. And today there are tons of people offering frames and parts, so the bikes probably exist, but we just don't see them here. You aren't going to get a whole long thread on Mariposa, but they are well enough known by people in the know for Rivendell to do a profile.

That said, 10K might be hard to hit. If you buy all the most expensive parts, and a frame, it might be hard to get up to that level. Bikes are pretty cheap compared to other products, the market is huge.
MassiveD is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 01:00 PM
  #18  
MassiveD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
So is it at least theoretically possible to put together a high end touring bicycle?
What would it be?
They are all over the place: Sakkitt is a good place to start, with their new website. Gordon. Mariposa. Vanilla. English cycles. Naked. There are tons of others, but those are a good start. If you had a pile of money English is the kind of place that can actually do something out of the box and excellent.

I am not convinced that touring bikes would be better with a lot of stuff like electric shifting, or carbon. Depends what makes a bike better. When designing my own frames I tend to think along the lines of classic touring bikes, or throwing everything you can for a more modern approach. I have yet to build the later, but there are a lot of technologies that could be added. There is also a lot of custom work that could be done to modify parts so that some of the blind spots like the badly integrated levers, or poorly design handlebar, cockpits could be improved on.

There is very little on current touring platforms that couldn't be improved if you think about it. But marketing down blind social media alleys doesn't usually get you there. It gets incredibly supportive articles about whatever is coming out for some other aspect of cycling and how great it is. Like 4 inch tires, which I think are swell, but what about some better parts for the bikes we actually use.
MassiveD is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 01:49 PM
  #19  
BigAura
 
BigAura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chapin, SC
Posts: 3,381

Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 15 Posts
  1. Design a carbon touring bicycle with strong & durable yet lightweight components.
  2. Build a prototype.
  3. Do a Kickstarter
  4. See if you get funded for production.
BigAura is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 02:06 PM
  #20  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,368
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8524 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by Dream Cyclery View Post
I've noticed many touring cyclists are very budget conscious. Maybe that's why?
I think that may be at least the view of many companies.

Who are those people who take 6 months off and ride cross-country, carrying their own gear, and sleeping in tents?

But, I would imagine they also cover a vast range of people including those on a shoestring budget, and those that bring caviar for their meals.

One of the issues with big business is that their business model doesn't necessarily include low production boutique style products, unless it fulfills a certain advertising niche (pro racing). Someone recently posted some notes about a beautiful Trek Transporter Cargo bike. Unfortunately, I would imagine the sales were low, so they just dropped it, rather than producing and marketing a low volume bike.
Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
  1. Design a carbon touring bicycle with strong & durable yet lightweight components.
  2. Build a prototype.
  3. Do a Kickstarter
  4. See if you get funded for production.
My guess is it would fly, as long as a person is realistic with their goals. Although I might be reluctant to buy a $5K touring bike from a startup company with no history.

Deserved or not, there is some stigma towards Carbon Fiber. Perhaps due to an inherent weakness in road bikes that is not necessarily found in CF MTBs.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 02:14 PM
  #21  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 8,250

Bikes: '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara/Centurion Ironman, '18 Diamondback Syncr, '18 handmade steel roadbike

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2969 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 149 Times in 105 Posts
I am shocked there have been so many legitimate responses to Squeeze asking this question...again.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 02:32 PM
  #22  
MassiveD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
He is just one person, there is an interest in high end touring bikes, someone bought the one Sachs made. I think there are a lot of people who wanted in but couldn't afford it when they were young so they are into it when older, but they don't need to come here for endless discussions of Salsa vs LHT, which are not that interesting since the bikes in question are pretty similar to each other and year over year.

What there are here are a lot of buyers of serial 1500 dollar bikes who could have just splashed out for the Gordon when they started out.

Also, in Europe there are more expensive bikes that are production made like Thorn and Toute Terrain.
MassiveD is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 02:32 PM
  #23  
DeadGrandpa
Senior Member
 
DeadGrandpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Carolina
Posts: 694

Bikes: Trek 1120, Santa Cruz Tallboy 3CC, Fandango DC-9 MTB tandem, Jamis Renegade Expert, Bike Friday Pocket Llama, Santana Arriva tandem, Bridgestone RB-1

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
And you missed your favorite Eugene based touring bike company!!!

Most of the Bike Friday bikes will hit between $1000 and $2000, but as with many things the sky is the limit. So, I'm sure they'd build a Campy Super Record bike if you wish. Di2? EPS?
+1. The Pocket Llama seems to me to be a very fine touring machine. If you feel like an upgrade, get the Chris King headset, the SRAM dual drive (or Rohloff) for a bona fide mountain climbing gear range, and the pricey touring saddle of your choice, for a total cost maybe $2,800+? (Rohloff would be an extra grand?) Spending more than that to save a few grams (when carrying 20+ pounds of gear) is simply stupid, and uses funds you will need on the road. If you go touring, you will see the truth of that. If you're not carrying gear, you might as well be riding a road bike, and you'll spend the extra money on motels and restaurants.
DeadGrandpa is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 03:03 PM
  #24  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,398

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6839 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 217 Times in 180 Posts
Nice thing about the Rohloff in a 20 " wheel is the same 2,35:1 minimal gear ratio, in a Big wheel 38/16;36/15

can be the inner chainring of a double.. The 38/16 in a 26" wheel in a 20" wheel I use a 53/16..

Or Speed Drive geared crank, the 36t in overdrive is a '57.6t'




'/,
fietsbob is offline  
Old 10-08-16, 03:13 PM
  #25  
bikenh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
When weight isn't an issue then weight isn't an issue. Until tourists get smart and start dropping weight out of there packing setup there's no reason to build an ultra light bicycle for the heavy weight carrying tourist. Talk about stupid idea.

Then take on the simple fact that $10K will take you quite far across the country/around the world, even if you are spending every night in 5 star hotels and eating in 5 star restaurant for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday. You could live in the lap of luxury and not even anything more than a regular touring bike and wouldn't have to take any extra gear with you other than the credit card. You could last quite a while on the open road with $10K. Spend the money on the lap of luxury instead of on the bike. Better yet don't spend the money at all and then you can last for ages on the open road. I spent $1400 in 3 months and 8400 miles last year on the open road...was in all states east of the Rockies and 20 state capitals. Since I didn't spend the $10K I didn't have to make the $10K to afford my trip so I could stay out longer and not have to be home tomorrow to work so I could afford the the next trip.

Sometimes it just all comes down to using common sense...something most people don't have anymore in this day and age.

The only way I would want an $10K style bike was if I was still 18-25 years old and had a chance to enter the pro racing scene. Otherwise it's a total waste of money. I could spend the money on other things much better and much more wisely.
bikenh is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.