9 minutes is plenty of time even when you need to get 2 fully loaded bikes up and down a flight of stairs cause the station has no elevators. But sure, I've seen examples which would not even fit into a train (well, they might fit into a Finnish night train but that's pretty exceptional in terms of space). I guess I advocate a maximum amount of luggage one can comfortably carry up stairs (in my case 120lbs of bike and gear)

Same as above

This has more to do with gearing in my opinion. I push the same watts whether I have all the gear or no gear on my bike. It's the time I spend going uphill that changes but since I don't have time limits it doesn't matter.

More comfortable? A loaded bike does highlight a bad fit the same way a trainer does, but if said fit is in order there should not be problems.
Luxury items are of course subjective as are certain necessities (I had a rackpack full of medical supplies for example).
There are also bonuses to a bit more load on the bike, like the missil'esque descending properties a well balanced bike gives.

If going heavier works for you ... great.



Doesn't work for me ... and I don't have to live my life according to the way you want to live yours. So thankful for that. I do things the way I want to do them.

Well it's a good thing you finally understood the point of my first post in this thread.

What I don't understand is this sudden negative attitude towards me defending heavier travelling. But I did point out earlier that it does happen a lot in the Touring subforum

not as important what other people are doing.
what are you (will you be) doing and why?

how much weight will you carry, and how much do you weigh?
***if you're 120 pounds, go crazy, if 220+, then.....
what wheels and tires does you got?
***16 aero spokes? 24 radial spokes? 20mm tubulars?
where will you ride, what terrain and surface?
***pavement or packed dirt or gravel or bushwhack your own trail?
and what for bike do you have, or will have?
***ultralight racer with assploding carbon fork?

what for touring have you done so far?
what personnel experience do you personally have to
evaluate recommendations?

As a Winter backpacker I never carried more than 35 pounds. I could see myself carrying 10 pounds more with a bike, but not doing so just because I could. There are some pieces that are nice but not essential. For one thing, food is much more readily available on the road than the Appalachian trail. An alcohol stove is much lighter and less expensive than a Jet Boil. Tire repair, tools, and security are going to replace luxury items.

AdvXtrm, I've had ~40 lb. on my rear rack, no problems. If I were to pack that much weight again I would balance the load with the majority on the front. Reason being that whether un-dished or in the case of disk brakes slightly dished, the front wheel is stronger than the rear wheel. More a case of mechanical sympathy than anything.

Brad

I do have to point out that a 36 spoke rear wheel that is built by a person who knows their stuff and formed with a good set of wheel components can withstand some ridiculous weight and riding stress. However a 36 spoke wheel that looks good on paper but is built by a machine can be weaker than a 28 spoke handbuilt one.

For me personally, I plan on going fully self-sufficient and self-contained, as in no credit card touring, no support entourage, nothing at all, just me and no money to burn. So that will entail bedding, tent, cooking equipment, tools and supplies, and all the rest. As I said in a previous post, once I get everything together I know I'll need to test out different load configs to find the right balance for my particular bike and setup. My bike build is coming along nicely. I've finally got it to a point I can start training/practicing, and building myself up to riding further and staying out longer. By body is also coming along. I've got some improvement with the paralysis and other things that are very encouraging. It looks like the displaced bones are going to be left where they are. I hope I can continue to work around that and do well. Once I'm ready, then I'm just going for it big-time and we'll see what happens. Hopefully very good things! :thumb:

So, OP, lots of people find it best to spread the weight out. I use a front handlebar bag ( a cheap $4.00 duffle) that holds jacket, sleeping bag and sleep system, usually a hammock. Then a half sized frame bag and 2 small rear panniers.

I've got to agree with elcruxio to a certain point. Just about any discussion of touring gear devolves into the lightweight evangelicals telling the rest of us that we are doing it wrong. We should all be wearing the same clothes for 90 straight days, doing our laundry in the shower and eating out of catfood cans while cooking on cat food can stoves. And we should never, ever, not in a million years carry more than 2 lbs of weight. Perhaps we should all be riding on barbed wire saddles as well...just to get the proper amount of suffering to satisfy them:rolleyes:

If it works for you (and them) that's great. But I also understand where traveling with more load has advantages as well. Not having to do laundry every night is high on my list of priorities. Being able to eat is another. As I've detailed in numerous posts, I have yet to find anywhere in the US where I can find food reliably every night. I often have to carry at least 3 days of meals...even in the highly settled eastern parts of the US. In the western part, it's even worse. That's the bulk of my extra weight.

As to climbing hills, yes, it is slightly harder to climb with more of a load but most bicycles are poorly geared for bicycle touring to begin with. And the current trend of higher low gears...which isn't all that different for the past trend of higher low gears...doesn't help. I've gone to a lot of effort to ensure that my bike has lower gears than most people would even think possible, much less ride. I don't always use my 20/34 low gear but when I need it, I'm very glad I have it.

However, on my "regular" bikes, I also have lower gears than many would use. I don't stick with the standard gearing on mountain bikes, commuter bikes or road bikes. Even unloaded my bikes usually have 22/34 or 24/34 low gears. Many would say that makes me weak. I say that it makes me smart.

Fail is strong on this one.

This is the best course of action. Try front heavy and rear heavy to see what works best for you.

I found that having bags on the front solved all kinds of stability issues long ago. I have toured with a heavy rear load and with a heavy front load and I'd choose the latter in all instances. I would...and have...touring with just front bags over rear bags. YMMV

As you gain skill and experience riding a loaded bike, your evaluations may change. Mine did.

I tended to do a ton of research, but found that my own experience was a better guide. Some research can help, but too much tends to get top heavy, so to speak. Experience through living freely and enjoying life is often a better companion. Jettisoning unnecessary clutter-knowledge can be refreshing.

I am now much more comfortable with all kinds of loads and configurations. Much of what I gathered through research is otiose and doesn't really apply.

Over-researching can be a kind of spoiler. Which isn't to deny that some of it can be helpful at times too. But it can also clutter and get in the way of a free and open life.

One little caveat may be worth adding: A lot of weight on the rear alone can make it easy to flip over backwards when riding up a steep hill. I've done it, and spoken with others who have also done it. It is very easy to take a very awkward fall and whack your head dangerously this way, and others have agreed that it would be nice to have had a warning. So here it is.

Back to the question that was asked, if you don't have enough weight on the back wheel to make it handle badly, there is no need for any weight distribution to the front. In that case, you can skip the extra stuff like front rack and panniers.

I did a group tour a couple years ago. One guy had a Co-Motion Americano which is a very robust touring bike with tandem specification wheels. I asked why he had the giant sized Arkel panniers on back and no weight on the front other than a handlebar bag. He said his bike was so solid that he did not notice any worse handling with all that weight on back so he decided to leave the front panniers and front rack at home for that trip to make packing the bike in the S&S case easier.

I also have a very robust bike that handles very well with a heavy rear load, but I have not used that bike on any tours where I packed light enough to get it all in just a rear pair of panniers. My other touring bike and and a touring bike that I no longer have needed to have the weight distributed better to avoid hampering the handling.

What you see, It all depends on where you Look.. :rolleyes:


Personally I have gone with 4 panniers , the front weigh does a lot to steady the steering..

Hundreds of Cycletourists on the Pacific coast every summer , + the start point for a transcontinental race , 1st week of June..
the individual Gear choices are quite varied ..





;)

Some wheels can handle a lot more stress than others. A heavy load that overstresses one wheel might not even come close to overstressing a different wheel.

After trying a variety of rear racks, it became clear that rack stability, like frame stability, can be important for good handling.

The rack itself can be more or less stable, and the mounting points and hardware can be more or less stable.

Same with panniers and loads.

You can adapt to noodliness, but rock-solid stability is nice.

As for reasons why people use rear panniers only:

Depending on the person, it could be out of cheapness or economizing, imitation (as you suggested), ignorance, experience and knowledge, simplicity, not caring, absence of research, lots of research, what they have on hand, what the bike came with, an uncompleted bike project, a transition stage, an experiment, 'good enough' thinking, absence of perfectionism, presence of perfectionism, contrarian tendencies, and probably other reasons as well. I've done it at different times for a variety of different reasons myself. Including having a variety of bikes set up differently, and liking to try different things and mix it up. And test what I've heard.

It seems to me the steering on my bike is a bit "twitchy". I think having some weight upfront will make it handle better rather than worse. Seems like a good trait for a touring bike that's built and intended to carry a load upfront. It going to be very interesting and revealing to see how this actually all works out when the time comes. Thanks again to everyone for all of he great input here; I really appreciate it. :thumb:

I'm all about a happy medium. A weight that works for me. A collection of stuff that works for me. I do things the way I want to do them based on my own personal experiences.

You should try front loaded panniers only then ride into a 20 mph headwind and see how you like it. I thought it sucked. Although, the steering was super stable.

Hopefully we all can agree that everyone here speaks for themselves, and opinions vary, in matters of personal preference.

I'd say some don't have enough to justify rear panniers. I tour with front only, plus a seat bag.

Exactly.

It all comes down to personal preference so my suggestion is, as it always is, go on short tours to find out what works for you.

I have tried riding with a heavier load, and a really light load, and have settled on something in between.
I have tried riding with 4 panniers, with panniers just in front, and with panniers in the rear, and I now have a setup I like.
I've got the gearing I like and when we tour, it is a style I like.

And I assume that everyone else touring has gone through the same process and has decided on what they like. The OP is now going to have to do the same.

That's more my thinking on it right there. I'm going to start out with front panniers some bags on-top of my rear rack, and if I need more space, which is pretty likely, only then will I get rear panniers. My thought is to but the smaller heavier items in the panniers up front, and the lighter bulkier items on the rear.